Praises and criticisms from a newbie

[Stryker]

Hi everyone, I've been playing Arm for a couple of months now on-and-off after a good friend of mine introduced me to the game some time ago. I made some stupid mistakes but eventually I think I got a decent grasp of the game. So I just want to throw out a few opinions of mine, good and bad, for people to discuss...

- I've seen most players are smart and helpful. They help out in an IC way so they help without breaking character.

- The game's mechanics and details are amazing.

- I can't play often but the cool things I read about on IC boards make me wish I did...

- The jail. Wow. I've seen a couple of interrogations in my time, and they were so crazy, Guantanamo-ish... makes me wish I get arrested more often

However...
- I feel like my short playing time would restrict me from clans is this true?

- I found it really, really hard to play a thief realistically when (at least I think so anyway) the victims are not. They tend to stand up from wherever they are then I see "so and so intently scans the area" (which I assume is the scan skill, right?) Of course, I've seen a few that don't do this, and oh how I love them so much... but most defend their little things to such an insane degree in this game. Then my characters end up getting blocked out of the room in a rather unrealistic manner, or killed. This has pretty much pushed me away from being a thief, since I don't really want to spam-practice stealing a coin from the floor, or only targeting NPCs.

That's pretty much it. I'm running this character that got a ton of responsibilities pretty much just as he got out of the hall of kings, and I'm having a blast.

[Lenny Poppo]

stealng from players is kind of like attacking players

you fight NPCs or spar with PCs before you start attacking players, mostly

same with stealing, steal with NPCs or practice on PCs before you start really stealing from players

this is so you don't kill players easy or steal from people easy when you make a new character - you will see it is easier to steal when you have better skill

[Marauder Moe]

The ones who stand up and scan probably saw or felt you grabbing at their stuff.

Note: stealing from the floor and stealing from a person are two separate skills, so practicing one won't make you better at the other, I think.

As for playtimes and clans, don't let your low playtimes keep you out of a clan.  However, if you do want to join a clan, only do it during your regular hours.  Make sure other people in the clan (or at least leaders) play at the same times you do.

[LoD]

Reactions on the part of the playerbase are as varied as its players.  Remember that the players you're interacting with might have played for a decade, three years, or two days when you happen to make your attempt at stealing something from them.  And you may get a different reaction from each of them.  Also consider the other factors that you don't know about in a given situation:

> What if someone had tried to steal from them yesterday and they're ICly sensitive about it?
> What if someone sent them a Way message telling them the Gaj had been hit by a thief a few times that week?
> What if they were waiting for a meeting with some underworld type character and were paranoid or nervous?

Now let's imagine that they're just standing up and scanning because they can.  The code gives them a message that their character felt something and they use whatever skills and positioning they have in an attempt to prevent that from happening regardless of whatever else was going on around them.

Dealing with PC's can be like playing in a sports game where the refs aren't calling the game closely or fairly.  In a perfect game you expect that unfair action 'x' should result in penalty 'y' (i.e. Getting elbowed in the face will result in an unsportsmanlike conduct foul.)  However, sometimes that doesn't happen.  And if you've ever been in a game where the refs aren't calling the game close, you learn that you have to suck some things up and adjust your strategy.

That doesn't mean you start playing dirty or that you stoop to their level, but rather that you expect the foul NOT to be called and adjust your play accordingly.  If someone is standing up and scanning whenever you fail a theft attempt, or if they automagickally lock onto your character in a busy tavern crowd as the culprit because you happen to be wearing footpads, then you need to adjust your game.  There are certain strategies that you can employ as a thief to help your situation.  Picking the right moments, using distractions, coordinating with other PC's, manipulating other PC's to shift blame in case you fail, bribing officials, and a slew of other tactics that are open to you.

One of the biggest things that I see players do wrong is wander into a tavern, nonchalantly (I know because they use this word in their emote) move about the crowd, watch people as they lean against the doorway, and then emote bumping into someone as they make their way to the door.  This type of behavior sets off warning flags in many player's heads and pretty much paints you with a neon sign that says, "Potential Thief."  The good thieves are the ones you never knew were there.  You never noticed any suspicious behavior, or if you did -- those suspicious people never ended up touching you or nearing you in any way and were probably distracting you from the REAL thief.

Super alert PC's can be somewhat annoying, but they can also help to sharpen your game and invent new ways to approach the same task that make them as much a victim as the folks that helpfully look the other way while you fiddle with their belt pouches.

-LoD

[Gimfalisette]

- I feel like my short playing time would restrict me from clans is this true?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean here: You think that because you haven't played ARM very long, a clan wouldn't want you? Or because you don't have a lot of time to devote to playing, a clan wouldn't work for you? Either way, I'd urge you to get past whatever perception you have and just join a clan. The majority of clans are happy to take newbies and help them along, and I don't know of any clan that wouldn't want you due to restricted play times. You will want to join a clan whose leader plays during your playtime, so you can get help and direction and interaction.

If you've never joined the Byn, you really -should- do so.

[a strange shadow]

The Byn can be very restrictive and boring during the slow times. I would hesitate to simply funnel all newbies into that clan.

[Dalmeth]

However...
- I feel like my short playing time would restrict me from clans is this true?

If you mean you don't have much time to play, I would suggest against the Legions, the Militia, and the Kuraci Fist.  There tends to be a good deal of IC training and politics that might make things a tad awkward if you just jump in now and again.  Everything else, though, is fair game.

Just tell potential employers you have regular commitments to family, and you will need to leave for extended periods of time to fulfill them.  Something like that.  Though, be prepared to negotiate things with the other character.   You are asking for a special situation, after all.

- I found it really, really hard to play a thief realistically when (at least I think so anyway) the victims are not. They tend to stand up from wherever they are then I see "so and so intently scans the area" (which I assume is the scan skill, right?) Of course, I've seen a few that don't do this, and oh how I love them so much... but most defend their little things to such an insane degree in this game. Then my characters end up getting blocked out of the room in a rather unrealistic manner, or killed. This has pretty much pushed me away from being a thief, since I don't really want to spam-practice stealing a coin from the floor, or only targeting NPCs.

I really think that most people go about thieves the wrong way.  First off, you seem to expect them to ignore you if they spot you hidden.  Well guess what, they've spotted you acting suspicious.  Yes, that's right, acting suspicious draws attention.   My suggestion is to be social, work mostly in crowds of PCs, and don't start using your stealth skills until you have to run away, unless you're laying in wait for someone to pass by.

It leaves a bad taste in my mouth to suggest ignoring VNPC and NPC population when trying to avoid suspicion, but the game doesn't play fairly any other way.   Either the other player must make up phony evidence that will never lead to you, or they must always suspect you first.  So

[Morrolan]

Note: stealing from the floor and stealing from a person are two separate skills, so practicing one won't make you better at the other, I think.

Stryker and Moe,

I haven't tested this in-game, but I always believed, as Stryker does, that stealing from the floor is the same skill.  Helpfiles extracted below:

From the Steal helpfiles:

Skill Steal  (Equipment)  
This skill is used to take things without anyone else noticing. It can be used several different ways: to steal objects from a room (e.g., picking up a sword without others seeing), to steal objects from a person (whether in their inventory, or worn on their body), to steal coins from a person (assuming they have coins carried in their inventory), or to steal coins/items from WITHIN objects worn on another person.
Syntax:
steal <object> - steal an object in the room
steal <object> <character name> - steal an object from a person
steal coins <character name> - steal coins from a person
steal <object> <character name>'s <container> - steal an object from a container a person is wearing, such as a backpack

If this is not the case, I would love to know.  How much time did I spend stealing mugs from my apartment floor?

Morrolan

[Marauder Moe]

Perhaps I'm imagining things. 

EDIT: That is to say, I have a vague recollection of a discussion about it being two skills, like hide currently is.  I suppose it's possible that was a proposal, or a speculation, or as I said, just imagination and faulty memory.

[Ghost]

What is more shocking news is hide is only one skill too!

Moe?  You okay?

[Marauder Moe]

 

I think I'll just stop talking now.

[Morgenes]

Explicitely using 'steal <item>' to get something from the room excercises the 'steal' skill. 

You can also use the 'palm' command to get items from the room similarly, however it excercises 'sleight of hand'.

[brytta.leofa]

Stealing and palming at nil ?? 

[Elgiva]

Stealing and palming at nil ?? 

That made me laugh.

[Synthesis]

God forbid that the -real- most universally despised and hunted class be able to practice their skills in a relatively safe manner.

[Gimfalisette]

God forbid that the -real- most universally despised and hunted class be able to practice their skills in a relatively safe manner.

Bards? Yeah. Those guys are twinks.

[Ghost]

God forbid that the -real- most universally despised and hunted class be able to practice their skills in a relatively safe manner.

hahaha good one

[jstorrie]

God forbid that the -real- most universally despised and hunted class be able to practice their skills in a relatively safe manner.

Pickpockets are e-z-mode, man. I don't know how you're playing yours.

[Southie]

Glad you seem to be having fun (mostly). A couple suggestions I have...

Some clans are more restrictive than others, and are more fun when you can play more and get the most out of them. Others, it doesn't matter as much. Hunter clans like Salarr/Kadius give your PC a lot of freedoms. You might also consider a partisan relationship with somebody in the north.

Thievery is tricky to play, you need to be smart. Read the Thieves' Bible in the docs, and consider nicking things from NPCs or PCs in low-populated areas first, where making an escape is easy and there are few people to see you. You really don't want to try stealing from PCs in taverns until you're quite good, as it makes the chances of being caught much greater.

[Stryker]

First off, you seem to expect them to ignore you if they spot you hidden.

Nope... not really... it's just that if I manage to take something from someone, they type in 'inv' and notice it's gone, they immediately stand and they scan without a moment's notice to get away. I can accept being caught if I was spotted in the act, but if I am blended into the crowd what makes me different from anyone else in the crowd... oh well. It has only happened a few times and so I'm not pissed at it, but I can imagine someone else getting pissed at it, and I definitely don't want to practice stealing in a riskless way for too long. That's it.

Thanks for your excellent replies though, and I wasn't referring to my short playing time as a newbie, but my usual daily playing times: nowadays I can only get in 2 - 3 hours tops. Byn sounds good, and my friend mentioned it as being the "clan for players new to fighting, but for practically anyone else too", but my friend was telling me that there's so many other clans to play in, plus special roles that are offered in the player announcements forum, etc etc. Now if my char dies I might try something cool...

[Synthesis]

A few rules for playing a pickpocket:

1) Only take things that are worth the risk to take.
2) Get the hell away from wherever you took it after the deed is done, ASAP.
3) Expect other players to act poorly, and plan your strategy accordingly.
4) Profit.

[Lizzie]

And of course don't forget the #1 guideline if you want a character who you can spend your time, energy, and focus on learning to be a decent thief: Join the Byn.

[LoD]

The T'zai-Byn is a fine place for a thief to hone their trade under the protective guise of a rabble-rousing mercenary, especially if the player of that thief could benefit from the slower paced, newbie friendly environment where syntax mistakes and RP blunders are more easily forgiven.

-LoD

[Ghost]

First time we get to (correction, -I- get to) see LoD post something that is not equivalent to a formal article.

GDB [None]

Hahaha.. See, there is no exit from GDB.  Once you get in, you can't get out.

[Ghost]

Stryker, a little bit of correction here:

Playing a criminal in Zalanthas is a tough job. People don't want to get screwed over so if you are a criminal, you have a tough life ahead of you.  Pretty much everything works against the life of a criminal, including the code, and the players.  Don't get discouraged though, it is not something you should be intimidated with.  But still it is a challenge.  Playing a criminal type requires you to pay a lot of attention to the game, think creatively, think something that is not trivial and for the most part, plan something new each time.  If you can play your cards accordingly, you may get to be a successful criminal.

The good thing with being a criminal though, every competent one goes through the same difficulties and not everyone is cut for the job.  So if you are successful in your profession as a criminal, you are a rare breed and that makes you important.

Because it is not easy, I suggest you get to know the game well enough before you think you can pull off the crime.  Play the game with little risk first, learn the social taboos, dangerous places, lawful places.  Who you can use and who you should avoid.  Until you get a real good grasp of the game world, I suggest you take it easy on the thieving part.  Because death is really cheap, and moral values are rare in this world.  Sometimes one mistake might be your last.  And sometimes, if you play your cards well you can get away with pretty much anything.

Let me tooth my own horn and give you some player logs of an assassin I submitted a long time ago:
Criminal: Part 1, Part 2, Part 3

It has 3 more parts in the same page that you can read and see that when you are a successful criminal, your mistakes can be forgiven.  And here is another one: A bad day to be a foreigner in the rinth (sorry it has a bad format). And there you can see that the life the shady people live is not always easy.

My suggestion:  Go join the byn (that would be my suggestion even though it is combat oriented), or any other clan that you can get the grasp of the gameworld and then once you are comfortable you can leave that clan and make your character's future.  Make sure, that you do not join a clan that is for life if you plan to leave the clan later.

[Vessol]

Just have to comment on the jail thing. I love the intense brutal interrogations as well. Those are really fun to RP with a templar or whomever.