The Non-Sexist Society

[Shiroi Tsuki]

Yeah, that would have been a typographical error since I made the thing at 4am.  The second line of 'male heterosexual blah blah blah' should be 'female', as I think most people have figured out.  Judging by my PMs

[Shiroi Tsuki]

Oh, and the downside of using a free service is that you get the ad page instead of a 'thank you' page =p  I could pay twenty bucks to upgrade, but... ... no.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

37 responses so far.  I'd really like 50.  Poke some friends and have them take it?

Regardless, I'll post results here tomorrow.

[Marauder Moe]

We getting results?  I don't really have any hypothesis about the figures, but I'm curious anyway.

[Eternal]

I don't know that you will find a definitive answer to this question.  The lack of sexism in Armageddon is largely an OOC construct designed so that players aren't forced to create a male character in order to enjoy the role of leader, bread winner, provider, protector, and any other gender roles commonly associated with the male in many Earth cultures.

In some native american cultures the leader, bread winner, provider, protector and other gender roles were occupied by females.  The males were keepers of the homes and hunting was not a matter of brute strength but cunning and speed + dexterity.  Men raised the children and wore baubles (mainly bone piercings through various cartilage based parts of their bodies... and reproductive organs).

Sexism is a facet of social evolution in patriarchal societies, which are historically not a universal concept.  Matriarchal societies are far more prevalent in tribal cultures such as Aboriginal African and Native American.  

The differences in body makeup may have lead to and been reinforced by a form of social natural selection due to those men with greater strength have been more able to find mates under the patriarchal banner, though this is believed to be changing in industrialized nations as many 'weaker' men can make more money and status.  George Clooney and Van Damme are weaklings, but I doubt you have the social chances they now enjoy.  Schwartzenegger is far weaker than Tank Abbott, but again, physical strength only truly matters if you are hunting beasts that you cannot fight through more intelligent means (i.e. trapping, domestication, etc.).

Current sexism can be attributed in many ways to serfdom, where the more powerful the serf/slave, the more land they could till.  In the non-serf ranks, the more powerful the sword arm, the better he could combat others fighting -in the same fashion-. Not that many players choose the farmer role in ArmageddonMUD and sword arms might not prevail against magicks and asymmetrical combat, thus physical strength might not matter.  Also, there has been the discussion that female and male physiologies (especially those that have become naturally selected by patriarchal societies) could easily be dissimilar from those found in modern-day earth.  You do not currently have the physique of your Neanderthal ancestors, do you?

Besides all the cultural anthropology, there is, as you have noted, the play issues.  I don't want to be discrimated against in game because I am a black human instead of a tan one, nor would I wish to be discriminated against for having female sexual organs.  That is the kind of real-world ooc baggage that could turn Armageddon into less of a game, and more of a Second Life Text.  *shudder*  Sexism is a state of mind, it may currently be an accepted social norm, but not all cling to it to enforce their own sense of masculinity.

Our game allows for all sorts of discrimination that does not cater to those of a 'hate' mindset irl, allowing exploration on a more intelligent level.  It allows for the true purpose of most fantasy works: to gain insight into our own world through entertaining use of various masks and identities.

The snot-nosed, little brat says, in sirihish:
"Moooom!  Go back in the kitchen and make me some travel cakes!"

[staggerlee]

To build on what Eternal just said, out of pure interest, it's worth pointing out the role of industrialization in gender differentiation.  

In a cottage industry situation a family could conceivably live in one house, work together, sell/trade their product and subsist with relatively undifferentiated gender roles.  Around the time the industrial revolution hit people were forced out of their home for ridiculously long work days.  A lot of the time the whole family ends up at work, children included as they could crawl into the machinery while it was running and had small hands.   Small children were often swaddled and hung by the door, with laudenum or something rubbed on their teeth to keep them sedate.

Some time and bloodshed later, it becomes uncouth to drag babies to work, and women become increasingly relegated to home care and men to work.  Women get stuck with carrying for children, supplementing income with work around the home and carrying for the home.

There's a wide range of reasons that men wound up at work and not women... but the point is that the Armageddon economy -isn't- really industrially based and the differentiation of the sexes wouldn't be as big a deal.  

For the most part Allanak's family unit -looks- like a bunch of independent people in relationships that'd either fall into serial monogamy or polygamy, without anything to really encourage either sex to be the primary bread winner, or stay home, or a family unit that would support that kind of thing anyway.  

Really for either sex to handle the home life you need an economy that encourages/allows one person to make enough money to support the family and be too busy to do anything else.  Not to mention the stability offered by straight up monogamous relationships.

In short? It kind of makes sense that gender roles are loose.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

Top numbers are percentages, bottom numbers are real numbers.  Not everyone answered every question.

Total Responses Received: 40

Want to track who has or hasn't taken your survey? - click here for information

1) Are you (the player) male or female?
male      
60.0
24
female      
40.0
16

2) What is the sex (physical plumbing) of your current character?
male      
55.0
22
female      
45.0
18

3) What is the dominant gender (characteristic behavior) of your current character?
masculine      
40.0
16
feminine      
12.5
5
masculine with feminine leanings      
22.5
9
feminine with masculine leanings      
17.5
7
neutral      
7.5
3

4) Your character is a...
Male leader      
17.5
7
Male subordinate      
17.5
7
Male loner      
20.0
8
Female leader      
17.5
7
Female subordinate      
17.5
7
Female loner      
10.0
4

5) Your character is a...    Chart Wizard
Masculine leader      
25.0
10
Masculine subordinate      
15.0
6
Masculine loner      
20.0
8
Feminine leader      
10.0
4
Feminine subordinate      
17.5
7
Feminine loner      
12.5
5

6) Your character is predominantly a...
(For the purpose of this survey, bisexual means a character who enjoys both sexes more or less equally.  If your character is a male who predominantly prefers women and does not think about men sexually, but wouldn't turn down a man if a man jumped in his lap naked, consider your character heterosexual.  I realize this may generate argument about what is 'true heterosexual' blah blah blah, but some sort of definition is needed.)
Male heterosexual      
35.0
14
Male bisexual      
7.5
3
Male homosexual      
5.0
2
Male not interested in sex      
7.5
3
Female heterosexual      
17.5
7
Female bisexual      
12.5
5
Female homosexual      
0.0
0
Female not interested in sex      
15.0
6

7) What type of relationship(s) is your character currently in?
Heterosexual      
30.0
12
Relationships with both sexes      
12.5
5
Homosexual      
5.0
2
No relationships      
52.5
21

Total responses:   
40

How does your current character feel about children?
Male heterosexual who wants children      
10.8
4
Male heterosexual who does not want children      
10.8
4
Male heterosexual who does not care      
21.6
8
Male bisexual who wants children      
5.4
2
Male bisexual who does not want children      
0.0
0
Male bisexual who does not care      
2.7
1
Male homosexual who wants children      
5.4
2
Male homosexual who does not want children      
0.0
0
Male homosexual who does not care      
0.0
0
Female heterosexual who wants children      
2.7
1
Female heterosexual who does not want children      
8.1
3
Female heterosexual who does not care      
10.8
4
Female bisexual who wants children      
10.8
4
Female bisexual who does not want children      
2.7
1
Female bisexual who does not care      
5.4
2
Female homosexual who wants children      
0.0
0
Female homosexual who does not want children      
0.0
0
Female homosexual who does not care      
2.7
1

9) Your character is...
monogamous      
28.9
11
polygamous      
71.1
27

[staggerlee]

Okay, so today I learned that I'm a freak and a deviant.

In the game too!

[Marauder Moe]

What about the question about personality types?

[Shiroi Tsuki]

I only had a couple people answer it with anything other than 'I don't know' so I decided not to waste the time editing it.

[Marauder Moe]

Well let's see... what conclusions can we draw?

Well from what I can see it seems that perhaps playing both genders as equals means more female characters have masculine personalities.

It also appears that there is a relationship between leadership and masculinity (and subservience with femininity).  Hard to say if that's because masculine character seek out leadership roles or players feel they must exhibit masculine characteristics to lead.  Or maybe that leadership is itself considered a masculine characteristic.  The terms 'masculine' and 'feminine' are rather subjective, though, or at least very cultural.

[Morrolan]

Around the time the industrial revolution hit people were forced out of their home for ridiculously long work days.

Actually, it was the agricultural revolution.  The invention of the plow, specifically.  That was when it becamse more econimically beneficial for women to stay home and have lots of kids.  Which, sadly, left women out of control of their own means of production.

[staggerlee]

Yeah you've got a good point. But that was still the height of cottage industry.  The family was still together and split the labor somewhat, it was still a bit more organic as to who did what.

Technically that might've just meant women had to work even harder... but yeah.

I'd say that you're right, we can get the beginning there, but that it all became set in stone with industrialization.

I think it's kind of interesting that as feminism allows women into the work place, it also gets harder and harder for the majority of north americans to sustain a family on a single income.  I can't speculate on the causality there, but it's kind of disturbing either way I look at it.

[alger]

I hypothesize that in games, especially in text-based games, females are usually seen by their male counterparts as attractive beings no matter how repulsive they are.

This is mainly due to several factors like a lack of imagination, rl deprivation, laziness to read descriptions.

So actually saying that men ig are actually attracted to ugly women who have strong characteristics can be faulty if just based on numbers alone.  If it happens there is still a big chance it is because the partner doesn't really know how ugly the person is.

[Marauder Moe]

I've theorized that in text-based games people are attracted to personality (and/or roleplaying skill) over character descriptions.  Save perhaps in the case of individuals who are very good at visualizing (or maybe players who are very good at writing evocative descriptions), character descriptions simple don't trigger the primal, subconscious reaction humans experience when they look at attractive people.  I don't believe this phenomenon is limited to either gender, though some might say that it's more common for women to be attracted to personality over looks in real life anyway.

[Elgiva]

Hm. This survey made me to look what "Enneagram personality type" -is-. Then I could had no resist the urge to fill a test of such personality type for my current char. Quite amusing.

[Mood]

I hypothesize that in games, especially in text-based games, females are usually seen by their male counterparts as attractive beings no matter how repulsive they are.

This is mainly due to several factors like a lack of imagination, rl deprivation, laziness to read descriptions.

So actually saying that men ig are actually attracted to ugly women who have strong characteristics can be faulty if just based on numbers alone.  If it happens there is still a big chance it is because the partner doesn't really know how ugly the person is.

Or, the PCs just have no standards. My current PC is like this. I'd go so far as to say that the majority of commoners in Zalanthas would be like this... after all, Zalanthas is a hard place, and attractive folks (by Earth standards, at least) aren't easy to come by (this isn't exactly well represented by PCs). You try keeping soft, porcelain skin when you're getting blasted by hot sand whenever you take a step outside.

[staggerlee]

I've always felt that people in rp situations overlook ugliness an awful lot.  I've had characters of both genders get hit on more than I'd expect having written their description, I think that bearing and personality go a long way.

And they'll react to the description, so they obviously read it.

I don't think low standards entirely covers it, although sometimes I'm sure it does.

[Stroker]

Actually, it was the agricultural revolution. The invention of the plow, specifically. That was when it becamse more econimically beneficial for women to stay home and have lots of kids. Which, sadly, left women out of control of their own means of production.

What he was referring to is the X amount of hours worked far away leading to X amount of hours of sleep (occurring in one block). This happened during the industrial revolution. This may not be pertinent to the discussion, but the development of this 'irregular' sleep schedule occurred with Industrial Revolution.