Roleplaying Peeves

[Gimfalisette]

I once played a Sergeant, and I would ask EVERY recruit if they had a hobby.

Yeah. "So what are you interested in? Hobbies? What do you do on your free time?" *blank stare in return* And the conversation takes like an HOUR when it should take TEN MINUTES for me to find out this information. *cry*

[Malken]

As a hobby, I like to stab people in the face with sharp objects. My main interest, though, is to create small mementos out of flowers.

[Mood]

One more thing I wanted to add -- I saw that there are several players who dislike bad grammar or poor emotes -- I myself am not american, and english is not my primary language, but thanks to the wonderful world of Armageddon I've learned english over the years ever since I started to play the mud.

My emotes are still poor due to lack of vocabulary -- I just want to say to those who dislike poor emotes, or bad grammar ... I have no intention in ruining your gameplay, I just want to have fun and enjoy the game as much as you do, I just do it in the best way that I know and I try to improve my english as I go bye, tolerance toward that would be much appreciated

P.S. If I made any grammar typos in this post, let me know

Based on this post... you're fine. Non-native speakers (who do their best, that is) are not the problem - lazy folks are. I can understand grammatical errors that come from not being completely familiar with the language. What I can't understand is...

The tall, muscular man says, in southern-accented sirihish:
     "oh hi malik how are you"

The other tall, muscular man says, in southern-accented sirihish:
     "im pretty gud how about yorself"

[Mood]

As a hobby, I like to stab people in the face with sharp objects. My main interest, though, is to create small mementos out of flowers.

You just made my night.

[brytta.leofa]

Yeah. "So what are you interested in? Hobbies? What do you do on your free time?" *blank stare in return* And the conversation takes like an HOUR when it should take TEN MINUTES for me to find out this information. *cry*

Gee, thanks, Gim--I have a sinking feeling that my current clan leader did this to my current char and got *blank stare in return*ed.

There's always the problem that a starting character doesn't really have any skill at anything.  Some people may be playing it safe by not claiming stuff they haven't really ever tried--another line of questioning would be, "What do you want to learn to do?"

Card tricks.
Card tricks?
Yeah. And arguing with shopkeepers.

[Marauder Moe]

At this point I can guess they might be a magicker. Folks might call it guild sniffing, but myself, and many other leadership PC's have been through it over and over, and at least ICly I find myself tired of hiring on one-trick ponies, having been shown time and time again in game they aren't worth the trouble, and OOCly knowing it's just another thief or magicker wanting to get in. As a concession, half the time I take on these employees knowing almost for a fact OOC they are thieves or 'gickers, but at the same time knowing they need an environment to play in,  even if it just becomes a method for my character to earn the trust of and then eliminate these wretches.

It's guild sniffing if you ICly come to the conclusion that said PC is a magicker (or thief/assassin).  The worst kind, in my opinion.

However, there are also plenty of people who do just want to play non-skilled social roles (aides) but don't want to apply for nobles and GMH agents.  Players are never required to use all the skills on their list, let alone claim any proficiency in them during an interview.  The roguish guilds in particular are actually good for these types of characters, discounting steal, pick, backstab, and so on.

(Though I've always wanted to play a character high sneak, hide, and steal skills who was the uber ninja aide, remaining hidden until his lord needed a drink refilled, stealing it from them, filling it, and planting it back without ever being seen.  Quadruple points for doing that to his lord's guests.  )

[staggerlee]

I once played a Sergeant, and I would ask EVERY recruit if they had a hobby.

Yeah. "So what are you interested in? Hobbies? What do you do on your free time?" *blank stare in return* And the conversation takes like an HOUR when it should take TEN MINUTES for me to find out this information. *cry*

I'd take that one step further. People won't even admit to non-coded hobbies. (Often I do this too.)
"Huh? Interests? But... but I'm a warrior, I FIGHT"

[My 2 sids]

Glad I'm not the only one affected by these sorts of things!

I had a PC once who juggled.  He, a house guard, got so much flack for that!  It was like -players- couldn't believe a PC would behave well-rounded or something.

I have also noticed how hard it can be to play a mundane PC.  Both my PC obsidian-hacker/ salt-grubber & street proformer/ begger got nearly the same reaction even though I played them in different cities.  In both there was a three-step reaction.   One) people tried to hire me for 'real jobs'   Two) Then people assumed my PC was some sort of thief or spy   Three) Finally, people (players really) seemed to be angry I didn't want to work for them as an employee or spy.   It was all kind of fascinating.

[Troicha]

My hobby (pick one for your next interview)
- collecting pretty young boys/girls/kanks.
- counting my 'sid
- running
- drinking
- whittling
- tidying things
- stand-up comedy (you're in my clan SO FAST)
- whoring
- philosophy
- eating
- spicing
- shooting the shit at the Storm's End
- vestric-watching
- spelunking
- camping
- going to plays
- partying
- feeling up the bar wenches
- cracking jokes at grebbers
- roughing up skinnies/halfies/shorties/roundears
- window shopping
- collecting ANYTHING
- sex
- ritual scarification
- jozhal-fights
- studying flora/fauna
- picking on slaves
- reminiscing
- arguing/debating

Oh, look, a non-exhaustive list of non-coded hobbies off the top of my head.

[Lizzie]

Right, and if any of those hobbies were things my Sergeant PC felt were useful to the house, she would have encouraged your character to do those things on his/her day off, nights off, and - times when there were no other PCs to spar with during sparring hours, or "field training" days when the Sarge wasn't around to take your PC out to train in the field.

And again, if none of those hobbies are things my Sergeant PC felt were useful to the House, you would have been stuck in the sparring ring, solo-RPing hour after hour after hour, OR deciding that your character is fine with breaking the rules. For a "law abiding" clannie, who might be in a clan that isn't active every single time you log in to the game, the whole coded craft thing can be the deciding factor in a new player deciding whether or not he wants to bother playing, if all he ever does all day is stand idle in a sparring ring or toss out emotes that no one else is around to see. ESPECIALLY if the clan's dummy only comes out for a short period of time, or the clan doesn't have a dummy, only a ring.

That's why I pick crafts for subguilds, if I'm not picking the merchant main guild. So *I* have something in addition to solo-RPing to do when I"m logged in, and there isn't anyone else around to RP with.

[My 2 sids]

You know, every step we take to make the game revolve around activities which are "good for the house" is another step away from well-rounded PCs and twards hack-n-slash/ skills-are-everything  game maintaility.

Leader PCs, maybe it's time (for playability) we start doing more than two-day weekends and working from dawn till dusk?   Throw in some half-days  or  some more days off.   There doens't need to be this "nine-to-five" maintaility.

[Gimfalisette]

You know, every step we take to make the game revolve around activities which are "good for the house" is another step away from well-rounded PCs and twards hack-n-slash/ skills-are-everything  game maintaility.

Leader PCs, maybe it's time (for playability) we start doing more than two-day weekends and working from dawn till dusk?   Throw in some half-days  or  some more days off.   There doens't need to be this "nine-to-five" maintaility.

It's not really a 9-to-5 mentality. It's a structure which is meant to address some issues that players/clans have:

-- Players tend to believe that if they are not working on a skill right that moment, then they are "not doing anything," and the time is wasted, and they become bored. Schedules provide a framework of skill-building to address this.
-- Players, if left to themselves, will often choose to spar all day or work on X skill all day, instead of taking breaks that make sense. Schedules provide realistic limits to skill-building.
-- Players, if left to themselves, will often choose to be places where their clan mates are not. Schedules provide a set time and place for clan members to meet up and interact.

MOST of what is done on any given clan's schedule has very little to do with what is "good for the clan" beyond the above issues. Train a warrior PC for an RL month of sparring and s/he is probably fine to do whatever needs to be done as cannon fodder in battles. But the schedule still gets followed after that, because of the above.

[Janna]

I half agree with Sids, and half with Gimf. You have some players, as Gim says, that do nothing but sit in a training room and spar and spar because they -think- they'll turn into the ubber warrior of doom and no one gets to interact with them unless there is a schedule. Problem is, and the reason I half agree with sids to, is the other half that want to actually RP and not spam train get ten minutes to do so (except for a 'day off') by the time dusk roles around, they finish and put equipment away, and then walk to the nearest tavern. Random days off in the week would be good for this reason but its a -really- fine line on what would be considered IC. 

As for an actual peeve as to not derail the thread more - people who take IC actions OOC because they know you. Whether I knife your character in the back or mudsex their brains out should not effect how nice or angry you are with me IRL. It's a -game-.

[rishenko]

As for an actual peeve as to not derail the thread more - people who take IC actions OOC because they know you. Whether I knife your character in the back or mudsex their brains out should not effect how nice or angry you are with me IRL. It's a -game-.

Not directed at you Janna, but I dislike the hypocrisy of people who say the above as though on a high horse while regularly doing the same themselves.

I also dislike it when people who had a character that didn't like yours dies or stores and their very next character hates yours right off the bat.  Especially when their char conjures up some retarded reason to cover their ass, like "he smells funny" or "he reminds me of this one guy in my past that one night hit me over the head" or "he wears the wrong colors".  I have come across three of these in the last couple rl months.

As for the final item on today's list: people who find out that a player is running a certain char and immediately set out to destroy that char or hate on them.  This one I have unfortunately been guilty of before, though I strive not to be.

[Gimfalisette]

Big peeve: Ignoring the documentation when it comes to sexual relationships, because getting ICly laid is apparently more important than playing true to character. Humans with non-humans. Mundanes with known magickers. Southsiders with 'rinthis. Etc., on and on. I hate this so so so so so much. Yes, you CAN make up excuses as to why any of these relationships are "legitimate," but when everyone is finding excuses, it makes the documentation on sexual taboos just laughable. I wish everyone in game would make much more fun of people who openly or obviously cross these lines, or find some other way to punish them.

On the other side of that, I really appreciate characters who apply taboos and express disgust at the thought of having sex with one or more categories of individuals.

[LittleLostThief]

Big peeve: Ignoring the documentation when it comes to sexual relationships, because getting ICly laid is apparently more important than playing true to character. Humans with non-humans. Mundanes with known magickers. Southsiders with 'rinthis. Etc., on and on. I hate this so so so so so much. Yes, you CAN make up excuses as to why any of these relationships are "legitimate," but when everyone is finding excuses, it makes the documentation on sexual taboos just laughable. I wish everyone in game would make much more fun of people who openly or obviously cross these lines, or find some other way to punish them.

On the other side of that, I really appreciate characters who apply taboos and express disgust at the thought of having sex with one or more categories of individuals.

I think it's pretty lame when you decide OOC that you know what's going on and blame people for playing badly based on your OOC observations.  I'm not sure exactly what sexual documentation you're talking about, but the only documentation that I've seen states that there are merely no taboos on the type of gender that your character is going for.

Before you start screaming that people aren't roleplaying properly... ask yourself this.  Where do half-elves come from?  Do some characters like slumming it?  What could their OTHER motivations be for wanting to have a tryst like that?  Not every half-elf comes from a rape, and some high and mighty Noble Ladies might only be able to get their rocks off when they feel like they are doing something exceptionally dirty, although I'm sure they wouldn't want to get caught being under a dwarf all of the time.

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be social repercussions for your dalliances outside of social caste or race.  I'm just saying that you can't assume that every "player" is only interested in playing out sex with any other willing warm body because it OOC'ly fulfills them.  You can't call players out for being BAD roleplayers when you don't even have a clue yourself what might make them tic.

Also, the documentation often outlines the "norm" about what common people expect and do.  This does not mean that you have to color in the lines always and that you get punished for not.  In fact, I think that some of the most fun characters can be the ones that push on the boundaries of what is allowed or not in society and the consequences be damned.  As long as your character has good, solid reasons for doing the things that they want to do, nobody is in the wrong.  I typically want to see players that distinguish themselves greatly from your average commoner.  None of us want to log in and play boring roles.  Players are here to claim a persona that does not belong in the vnpc population.

So I guess that's my roleplaying pet peeve.  When other players decide they know more about your character than you do and condemn you OOC'ly for it.

[staggerlee]

But if everyone is the exception to the rule, we're not really playing by the docs, now are we?  We may all have flawless motives and beautifully developed characters, but if they're not Zalanthan than we're doing something wrong.

I think it comes down to a community problem, not an individual problem. You're not a bad rper for ignoring *whatever rp guideline* but we also need to be willing to step up to the plate more often than note and play the norm.  Exceptions should be just that, exceptions, and they stop being noteworthy when everyone is playing them.

That said, social mobility in the game is kind of cool. It's certainly possible, but I've seen more stigma regarding magickers/rinthers/etc than some posts here would lead you to believe exist.  It's light, but present.  Not to say there couldn't always be more, but I'd strongly encourage people to hate on "those other guys" a bit more, it's fun.

I suppose my peeve is people always wanting to be the exception to the rules, and not willing to play the typical Zalanthan.

[Marauder Moe]

Last I checked, inappropriate cross-class romances were not the majority compared to condoned relationships. 

Granted, the proportions may not be perfectly in line with how they realistically would be, but if the whole game was like that we'd only have like 1/3rd of a magicker PC, 1/20th of a noble, and a toenail clipping from a sorcerer.

PCs are, on average, exceptional in some way or another.

Also cross-class romances make for incredible mundane plots and drama.

[Marauder Moe]

I suppose I should add a caveat: PCs may be exceptional, but it is bad when you start ignoring/denying that fact.  Just because you've heard of 3 PCs that slept with elves doesn't mean there's a city-wide epidemic of necker-lovin'.  Just because of the six PCs in the bar three are magickers, doesn't mean that 50% of the population is also magickers.  Most importantly, neither of those observations should lead any PC to think that kanking a sharp or being a gemmer is in any way more acceptable.

[Lizzie]

I don't think "playing the exception" is a big deal or something overly common. But what I can see as a total peeve is if the people around that exception, and the exception itself, don't recognize ICly that it IS an exception and RP it appropriately.

Example, that elf/human romance.

Elves aren't humans with pointy ears, and humans aren't short elves. They're not both humans, one asian the other aborigine. They're not different "races" like we have in real life. They're more like different species, like an orangutang to a chimpanzee. The idea of the two getting together sexually should be considered something worth sneering about. Or snickering. But an elf and a human who are romantically involved would DEFINITELY not flaunt it in public, because that kind of thing SHOULD be shameful. If an elf and a human did actually get the balls up to get smoochy or huggy in public, they should -expect- anyone around to sneer, smirk, snort, cajole, taunt, tease, and otherwise make their lives miserable for displaying such disgusting behavior in public.

So if an elven and human pairing are around and displaying affection for each other in public, they (and their players) shouldn't be surprised at all if they're shunned. And, other people should be shunning them, at least publically.

[LittleLostThief]

I never said that anything should be "ignored".  My argument was not to "ignore" the documentation.

My argument is that a PC is a multifaceted organism with their own hopes, desires, and wants, and that might not be exactly 100% congruous to what is socially acceptable.

I'm not arguing that other PC's should react and treat  PC's that break the unwritten rules of caste of race in a better light.

My argument is that you cannot say someone is "ignoring" IC standards by choosing to sleep with elves or magickers, or even suggest that those that do are doing something "apparently more important than playing true to character."

And not everyone is an exception to EVERY rule, but I would hope that some quirk of your character would make them more interesting than your average Joe vnpc.  If you really want to play a guy that works in a bakery but isn't very skilled at making bread and never will be, so their only job is to haul inix dung from the stables to the cooking fire, where you will never pick up a blade or never use a real coded skill or have an interesting conversation with someone, by all means go ahead.  But if you want the rest of the mud to play exactly that as well, I don't think very many of us all are going to have a lot of fun.

[staggerlee]

I suppose I should add a caveat: PCs may be exceptional, but it is bad when you start ignoring/denying that fact.  Just because you've heard of 3 PCs that slept with elves doesn't mean there's a city-wide epidemic of necker-lovin'.  Just because of the six PCs in the bar three are magickers, doesn't mean that 50% of the population is also magickers.  Most importantly, neither of those observations should lead any PC to think that kanking a sharp or being a gemmer is in any way more acceptable.

This is a tangent, but I agree with what you're saying.  You do have to be fairly flexible for the game to be playable. The best way to I can see to make that work without disrupting the world, is that when you play the exception, be aware of it and act appropriately. I realize that the majority of pcs are going to be exceptional in some way and that people just want to have fun, so that's fine. Within reason, and as long as they remain aware that they represent a deviation and rp it accordingly, and expect the virtual world to likewise react accordingly.

Take guilty glances around when you talk to that magicker at the bar, sneak off for midnight trysts with your elf lover instead of humping them on the Gaj bar. You get the idea.  Again, not saying it's bad if you want to play a character that's shameless about all those things, but try to be aware of the virtual world and social taboos.

[Malken]

Face it, LittleLostThief, you're a nekker lover. 

[LittleLostThief]

Well you know what I say... a breed for every hole.

[Barzalene]

While I agree with what's been said is the problem with guild sniffing, I think that there are benefits. If you're not really sure where you're going with your pc and are willing to be shaped by your employer then this applies less, but if you know exactly who your pc is, you want someone who will let your pc be who they are. So, if someone doesn't guild-sniff they may be the guy for you. Or if they're going to let you never use a coded skill and are thrilled when you say you have a real talent for plastering cracks in walls, and have spent your time up till now doing that, SCORE! Maybe you say you like to play hide and seek and they see possibilities. It's good. If they ask questions and don't get the answers they want it frees you up for to work for someone who won't have you spending every waking moment training for a skill you'll never have.