Southern taverns, and the patrons thereof

(All gone.)

[Kankman]

There's something about the Bard's Barrel I don't think many players take into consideration. The overwhelming stink that it must be filled with. Take a few moments to read the room descriptions of the plaza.. Filthy masses of people all crammed into a small space. Filled with tents and makeshift shelters. At least one tenement building, with dozen more in virtual land no doubt.

That alone could be enough, but you also have the horrible stench of death. There is a Tek damned slaughter house right across the road from it! A SLAUGHTER HOUSE! That stinks so badly that every room descripion on Miner's Road mentions it. At least as far as Theyak's walk.. That's a damn long distance. The Bard's Barrel must be overwhelmed with the foul smells of slaughter.

Consider those two points the next time you're playing a noble and think:

You think:
        "I should go by the Bard's Barrel for a bit of entertainment."

[Lazloth]

That alone could be enough, but you also have the horrible stench of death. There is a Tek damned slaughter house right across the road from it! A SLAUGHTER HOUSE! That stinks so badly that every room descripion on Miner's Road mentions it. At least as far as Theyak's walk.. That's a damn long distance. The Bard's Barrel must be overwhelmed with the foul smells of slaughter.

Just to touch on this -- I did a long term engagement in the heart of Des Moines, Iowa once upon a time, and somewhere not to far from that godforsaken place, they would periodically slaughter pigs.  When the air was still, the city REEKED.  As an out-of-towner, I found the stench so overwhelming, it did in fact impact my evening routines.  That said, the locals really had no problem with it;  I guess the human body can acclimate to anything.

On the other hand, I agree with the general sentiment.  I don't think, however, that it's implausible to find (lesser, PC-run) nobility "slumming it" in the Barrel: the place affords entertainment, gambling, and five rooms of tables.  The Gaj, on the other hand ...

[creeper386]

Acctually. It's quite common in all sorts of societies for upper class people to go where there is entertainment. Alot of the time a noble comes in to listen to the music, and to listen to the people and all that, and alot of time they aren't even a high up noble or anything. Also it makes sense, since nobles obviously have alot of business with commoners, that they go places where the other people feel comfortable. Alot of commoners wouldn't even feel comfortable walking too close to Trader's let alone going in there.

Also... The whole COMMONERs quarter would be reeking. Most like so would the elementalist quarter though not so much as it probably has a smaller population. The Market also stinks. The whole city stinks pretty bad. If you go to most large cities now of days they well stink, and it was worse with less technology and such, let alone without alot of water. Stink wouldn't be that big of a deal.

And to include it. As a player, I hate it when everyone in a room stands up and bows when a templar or noble comes in. Sure some people would, but not everyone. And most the time the players of the templar or noble... and the characters themself either don't expect or don't care if everyone stands up and bows. Specially when you on the other side of the room and good chance of facing away from the entrance... You should. And when you go out of your way to bow to a noble or templar, ussually your forcing other people around you to do the same thing and it looks odd. I don't think a noble or templar in the Barrel would be uncommon at all. A noble in the Gaj wouldn't happen often and it normally doesn't. A templar would be uncommon but would probably expect the drunks and everyone busy to probably not notice them. If you think everyone in the bar would stand up and bow when a templar would walk in... Even if they all knew he was there... I think your crazy, specially with the Gaj, and the Barrel even. The Trader's it probably wouldn't happen, even though it seems to be more organized and less packed, I would think a noble or templar would be common enough there that you wouldn't stand up and bow whenever anyone entered.

Creeper, who is SO frustrated with people standing up and bowing all the time. Specially when they are sitting at the bar chatting it up with everyone and then just automatically stand and bow, so lame.

[Bestatte]

Just a minor note about the Barrel...

For those nobles and templars (and even commoners!) who take issue with northerners sullying their glorious southern city, ask yourself if you are REALLY all that interested in listening to the *northern bard* sing - and actually paying for him to do so. Especially when he has an -elven- drummer, who is also presumably getting a cut of the virtual 'sids you pay him.

Having said that...

There are political reasons why nobles and templars go to the Barrel. The primary one is recruitment. Since commoner's don't generally hang out in Trader's, if you're looking to hire a guard or aide, you gotta go to where guards and aides hang out. I suppose you could say "well have your aide hang out there and do the recruiting for you!" but that is assuming the person already has one to send.

Having said -that-...

I do find it odd, and disconcerting, that commoners occasionally have to go to Trader's to get away from all the nobles and templars in the Barrel. But perhaps if MORE commoners did this, we'd see a switch...turn the Barrel into the place the "big deal" folk hang out, and commoners take over the better joint.

Not that I like that idea, but it just seems like the logical next step.

[John]

From what I've seen it seems to change periodically which tavern the Nobles/Templars go to. Concerning The Barrel, as has been said, sometimes Nobles do have legitemate reasons to go into the Barrel (they're on a recruitment drive, they need to speak with some commoners) so that noble will go to the Barrel.

Now if Noble Y needs to talk to Noble X who happens to be spending a lot of time in in the Barrel, then Noble Y will go into the Barrel to look for him. Now if Noble X and Y are both in the Barrel, Noble Z will probably get suspicious about whats going on and start heading into the Barrel. So it becomes a domino affect where all the Nobles end up going to the Barrel.

I do agree though that the Gaj would be strictly off-limits to Nobles and most of the time to Templars as well and that if a Noble or Templar were to go in there then it would cause a few rumours to fly about.

Also instead of Nobles constantly dealing with employment drives themselves, or looking for Commoner A, IMO they would probably be more likely to delegate the task to a trustworthy servant. However because of the limited amount of players available, they might not have a Player Servant to delegate the task too, so they then have to do it themselves.

Also, if characters are getting sick of Nobles coming in and having to bow to them. Ask yourself this. Would your character see them? If the bard is playing a song that everyone's winging about (because I have yet to see a nakkie who actually likes listening to the bard in the Barrel ) will your character notice a Noble come in?

Is it realistic for a Noble/Templar to expect everyone to bow to them when they go to a middle-class tavern? IMO no because they're lowering themselves to a lower establishment and probably loosing face by doing it too often. From what I've seen it's up to the commoners to stop bowing to Nobles and Templars when they pop into the Barrel, and if a Noble takes issue with it (and if they do, they should take issue with all the VNPCs in the tavern as well) they should go to the upper-class tavern where they'll be treated with more respect.

[aeshyw]

I would posit that Allanak's current PC population is not large enough to reasonably support 3 taverns.   People will disagree with me, but I think that with all the other restrictions placed upon noble characters, a trip down to 'slum' at the Barrel is a small issue.  We all come here to RP and while solo RP is fine at times, I don't know many people who don't crave interaction with other PCs at times, as well.

Having spent a lot of time in Allanak's various taverns, I find that when the PC population in the south grows, nobles start to stay almost exclusively in the Trader's.  As it dwindles, they look for other PCs to a) recruit and b) roleplay with, by heading to the Barrel.

If it was the Gaj that was filled with nobles, I would agree there is a serious issue.  The Barrel seems to me a good middle ground until the South picks up again.

Just my two sids.

[Anonymous]

I've played two nobles, and neither of them would go to the Barrel, because they thought it was beneath them.  Both of them were also highly arrogant in their own way.

As a player, however, I don't take issue with nobles going to the Barrel because, as aeshyw said, the population just doesn't support three taverns anymore.  Not with Tuluk taking more and more PCs from Allanak.

Going to the Gaj, though, is IMHO, lame.  I always think of the Gaj as a redneck or a biker bar.  Its full of puking mercenaries and sagging breasted prostitutes, and thieving longnecks.
Why on earth would any noble go there?

That's like British royalty going to a Sex Pistols show back in the day.

[Angela Christine]

I think the Trader's is a victim of it's own success.  Elves, rinthers and most commoners can count on getting harrassed (or worse) in the Trader's.  A year or so ago I played a noble's lacky and I didn't like going in there without my noble, too stressful.  To go in the Traders you should be fancy or have buisness with the fancy people.

The Gaj is a dirty commoner bar.  The exact level of filth is debateable, but it is noticably dirtier than the Barrel.  The Gaj isn't even trying.  I think a noble or wealthy person would need a damned good reason to go to the the Gaj.  I can see some merchants spending a little time in there because most merchant houses will have only one or two representatives in the city at a time, so there isn't a junior merchant to service the commoners and a more refined senior merchant to deal with the elite.  Theoretically each of the big merchant houses would have dozens of merchants, but realistically there are only going to be one or two PC merchants for each House at a time.  The parade of commoner PCs may end up spending more with a house like Salaar than the few noble PCs do, so they go where the money is.  I think most nobles would avoid the Gaj unless they had a specific mission, or needed to get out of a blinding sandstorm.

The Bard's Barrel is in-between.  It is in the stinky commoner's quarter and is full of stinky commoners, but it is also the only non-virtual place in town with live entertainment and a casino.  There is plenty to do at the Barrel, and everyone with sids is welcome.  If only one tavern is going to be heavily used, it makes sense for the Barrel to be that tavern.  


As for people using the wrong taverns, I think you need to take a broader view of things.  What is worse: Noble and Templar PCs spending some of their time in the commoners quarter, or not having any noble and templar PCs at all?  ICly they may have plenty of power and be justifiably resented, but in terms of playbility they don't have much more freedom than a Byn Runner.  There are usually only a handful of them at any time, so the noble on noble RP possibilities are limited.  The junior nobles end up doing some jobs that should probably be done by senior servants, because there is no one else to do the jobs and nothing else for the nobles themselves to do.  If you make the roles too restrictive, and realistically a noble's life should be restricted, then no one will want to play them.

AC

[Yang]

I agree with Bestatte. I'm always surprised when a northern bard PC gets harassed over the northern bard NPC, or the (from what I assume) northern bartender. Give it a rest, it's not that big a deal. Unless of course you just really hate all things northern, in which case, you should probably find another bar. I would imagine that the Barrel is the one spot where the most out-of-towners might frequent.

[aeshyw]

Well, it might do to remember that many of the patrons of the Barrel have been frequenting it for over 15 - 20 years.  While the northern bard npc might be an annoyance, you're used to him at that point. New, strange northerners are automatic cause for suspicion and harassment.

[deviant storm]

Oooh, another discussion by the rp police.

First... The first poster said the word 'artsy'. Yes, the place is supposed to be artsy, and also a good place to cut loose and gamble (why else are there gambling rooms upstairs). Tell me, wise players, who in Allanak has the money for gambling and for supporting the arts? Why, the nobles, of course!

Sure, the place is set in the commoner's zone. It's Also not all that far from the Dragon's Way, which is for guess who? Nobles.

It can be argued that it's for the nobles. I've seen nobles there through all the time I've played this game. Oashes and Tors, mostly, as well as various templars. Borsails tended to stick to Traders, but that's how they've been played.

Now, instead of complaining about how busy the Barrel is, you should be greatful. It wasn't so long ago most were whining about what a ghost town Nak was, how few there were to interact with. Be happy! You can sweat having a templar watch you from across the tavern. You can ignore the noble (the crowd was in the way, Lord fancypants!).
It isn't the dump the Gaj is. It's not great, but it's a good place to go to listen to music and watch your betters/those beneath you. Why moan? Enjoy!

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2003 4:39 am    Post subject: Southern taverns, and the patrons thereof

Today's date:
Thursday June 12, 2003

can people -please- stop all of a sudden posting on two month old topics? sometimes opinions change, like mine partially did on the afore-mentioned post of mine, and I dont like having everyone argue/agree with me on a topic that isnt even recent.

Thanks.

[Pungee]

Heh, one of the pitfalls of posting. Eventually someone reads the thread and decides to comment and we end up rehashing it. It's not always a bad idea though since others (myself for instance) end up seeing it again and getting some different more up to date perspectives on it.