Speaking of Barbarians...

[crymerci]

Who is the more barbaric and uncivilized? Northerners or Southerners?

[Delirium]

Both of them! You city-dwellers are all mindless, barbarbic fools!

.. But between the both of them, 'Nakkies are worse. Can't see how they stand it. Tuluk might have long roads, but at least you're not stepping over diseased bodies on every street corner.

[Hoodwink]

I think it depends on how you define barbaric.  I've always felt that the real irony is both cultures (Allanak and Tuluk) mockingly reference the other as being barbaric, when in reality, as different as they may be, they are also just as similar in a number of ways.  Though I chose what (as of this posting) is the minority and voted Tuluk as being more barbaric.  Wasn't Tuluk founded so many years ago by barbarian hordes; a multitude of various tribal nations that were herded together to create one big civilisation?  And wasn't Tuluk rewon by even more barbarian like tribes, bandits, raiders, and mutants?  And isn't Tuluk hardly even finished, still an enclosed wilderness with new walls being constructed each day?  Though Allanak may have a less wholesome, degraded culture where the dead are simply discarded on the streets, I actually envision Allanak as somehow more... Romanesque (if that's the right word) and structured, whereas Tulukis tend to be more rugged and, well, barbaric: donned in face paints and feathered headdresses and brandishing poison-tipped spears, smoking spice before rallying together for a bonfire festival.  They may have the arts (and Allanak simply doesn't because they are oppressed) but being artistically bent doesn't necessarily make you a fop or delicate and prissy, you can still very well be artistic and barbaric.

[Fedaykin]

Barbaric is defined one way as: Marked by crudeness or lack of restraint in taste, style, or manner.

I don't care where "barbarian" may have been thrown around in the past.  If that doesn't describe Allanak, I don't know what would.  

[Anonymous]

I guess it depends on how you define barbaric.  If by barbaric you mean bloodthirsty, then 'nak without a doubt.

Tuluk has Poet's Circle, Allanak has the arena.  I think that pretty much sums it up.

If by barbaric you mean uncivilized and behind in technological achievement, then I would say Tuluk because they are still rebuilding.

[Fedaykin]

Technological achievment?  If that is your basis, than I still disagree completely and say Allanak is more barabaric.  Tuluk uses the pyramid in building after all, and from a technological stand point, a pyramid is the sturdiest of all possible building shapes.

That being said, I still don't think the techonology in the cities from an objective standpoint is really that different.

[creeper386]

Hmm... For one, I'm still thinking Allanak has some arts and stuff. It also is a big fashion place, but the decent stuff if less common therefor expensive. I think just looking at the PC aspect and that there are more arts up there isn't the way to do it. Allanak has a house dedicated to entertaining the city, and this goes beyond the Arena. Which I would assume would have to be much more social and civilized activities.

Tuluk has Poet's Circle, Allanak has the arena. I think that pretty much sums it up.

As for this quote here... Thats because Tuluk's arena was destroyed with the rest of the city. From a political stand point, even if you have a god-king on your side, it'd be better to support fun things and just have trouble makers disapear then to have public killings so soon after a war. They may not be very civilized but politics are politics, and most intelligent people well try to keep the we need to stick together to fend off the south mentality around for as long as possible, considering this I'd think if the arena was put in it wouldn't be for criminals or public death but to watch animals fight, watch willing people fight animals and others, and watch gladiators. If things get to where they don't worry about the south any more, larger internal squablings are going to be more common. If you add on top of that people resenting the government for this or that, it gives good opportunity for the government to be in danger.

Give it time and Tuluk well most likely have an Arena again, and if I had my way there'd be more social aspect in Allanak, maybe not all arts and crafts and people sitting around a fire singing camp songs... but still as civilized as everything else.

Creeper

I think everyone is right about the issues because barbarism isnt a finite
trait. Its more of a relative, and prespective thing based on the culture the
person judging it belongs to. Like early Americans considered Indian's
barbaric, but they also had a deep and intricate culture, arts, worship and
all other types of things. While the Americans were fewed as barbaric for
their utter disregard for the earth, resources, animals, etc. Even though
they had a thriving culture based on those principles.

As per dictionary.com, and someone else on the thread:

Marked by crudeness or lack of restraint in taste, style, or manner.

Sadly again a perspective thing. I may dress in rags and dirt and consider
it fashionable. Then when I see that idiot over there in gaudy silks I might
think "Wow he has no taste, style or manners... eatting with forks, what is
that. Stupid barbarian."

So while Tuluk is reknowned for its arts, culutured nobility, and spice
habits, they are probably viewed by outside society as a gaudy, superficial
and 'artsy fartsy' civilization.

And while Allanak is known for its wealth, utter poverity of its citizenry,
and the almost converse treatment and lifestyle of its nobles, there are
probably a billion Allanaki people that would prefer to live there then in
the north. There is something reassuring about desolate surroundings, and
an almost assured death, as opposed to an extended life filled with music
you probably wouldnt like, flashy colors that'd hurt your eyes, and spiced
food that makes your mouth burn.

So anyways... yeah, Id personally consider Tuluk the more barbaric from
my generally Allanaki point of view.

[Fedaykin]

And while Allanak is known for its wealth, utter poverity of its citizenry,
and the almost converse treatment and lifestyle of its nobles, there are
probably a billion Allanaki people that would prefer to live there then in
the north. There is something reassuring about desolate surroundings, and
an almost assured death, as opposed to an extended life filled with music
you probably wouldnt like, flashy colors that'd hurt your eyes, and spiced
food that makes your mouth burn.

So anyways... yeah, Id personally consider Tuluk the more barbaric from
my generally Allanaki point of view.

A billion?  Allanak only has 400 thousand citizens.

What exactly is reassuring about a desolate life and death?

I believe the poll was from an objective standpoint, and not from the standpoint of either city, because then the answer would be obvious everytime.  No one is going to say their city is the barbaric one.

Well I was speaking from an objective standpoint... of a character that
plays almost exclusively in the south. hehe ^_^

but anways, when you know your going to die... and that most of your
peers are in the same boat starving and thirsty, there is some peace to
that. As opposed to living on, seeing others die, feeling the pain of living,
etc. etc. I dont know.... was trying to sound deep and you ruined it for me.
I guess I can equate it with alot of poor people are happy. They are poor,
have nothing, and alot of the time are hungry yet are complacent with
their place in life, yet then they look at the well off, or even rich, and see
alot of anger, unhappiness, and a void they try to fill by buying things.

Anyways... sorry my deepness didnt come off right.

[creeper386]

My main point is Allanak does have more civilized things. And from an outside view, I'd say it's a toss up. They are basically equal. Tuluk may be more up on commoners and nobles being more equal, but they also are more into wearing animal skins and I think the tribal aspect hasn't worked it's way out of Tuluk's system.

Over all, Allanak has more class, but on a level of ideals and morales(moral? SHRUG) are quite barbaric compared to Tuluk. The tribal aspect isn't so big. It's a conformed society and all that. And although in history that type of thing is considered advancement it really comes down to which lawn your on, of course unlucky me is stradling the fence. Ick.

Creeper who just sure as hell hopes it's not electic, razor or barb wire... or a white picket fence.