sneaking, hood raised...

[Rindan]

Sancho can have my child.  He always leaves such nice and thoughtful rants.

Sneaking and hiding is a good time for the think command.  Think out your actions.  Personally, I completely agree with Sancho in saying that I flat out don't want to know if someone is trailing me or hiding in the room with me.  Exactly as he said, it impairs your ability to RP.  If you suddenly come up with a reason to be paranoid, it makes you the twink for acting on it.

That is not to say that there are not good uses for emoting while hidden, but describing how you are stalking your victim to your victim, in my opinion, is not one of them.  I recall one excellent use was having someone use it to call out an insult to a noble that was hanging out in place he would not be welcomed.  It was something to the extent of, "say (calling out from a crowd in the back of the tavern) Go back to your own kind you inbred kank fucker!"  The effect was awesome.

[RideTheDivide]

So - and forgive me if this is a stupid question - if I'm sitting in a bar and I get the message that:

"Someone looks at you"

Can I react to that without being a twink?  It seems like you're noticing that there's someone in the shadows checking you out.  Would it be good RP to then stand up and scan?

[Delirium]

Scene: A crowded, smoky tavern, people jostling each other on every side.

You: Sitting at the bar, scratching your ass idly, or drinking a mug of ale, or chatting with someone near you.

Them: Hiding in the shadows, casually surveying the crowd. Their glance happens to pass over you.

I don't think you'd notice that. Someone looking at you is just someone looking at you code-wise, there's no way it means you have to notice it ICly.

[Plazgoth]

I have not played many shady type of characters, but I thought that the look echo did not show if you were hidden. Does it show to everyone or those with high enough scan. I was under the impression that if you look at someone while hidden they will not see anything, am I wrong in my assumption?

[Delirium]

I'm not sure, to be honest. Either way, unless your character had reason to notice them looking at him/her, IMHO it'd be best to ignore it from an IC standpoint.

[Callisto]

I have not played many shady type of characters, but I thought that the look echo did not show if you were hidden. Does it show to everyone or those with high enough scan. I was under the impression that if you look at someone while hidden they will not see anything, am I wrong in my assumption?

No, if you successfully hide then no one can tell who you're looking at, regardless of scan and most magickal sight enhancements. Ranger Joe might be standing on a table pointing at you while screaming about a shadowy figure in the corner, but he won't be able to tell if you're looking him over for a nice sweet spot to plant a dagger.

[Anonymous]

My own view is if something is 'emoted' while hidden then it is an action that everyone in the room can see even if they cannot see the 'someone.'

Therefore, in my view, that is 'someone' grins at you - you will notice that someone grinned at you.  You might not realize who it was but you noticed a flash of a grin.  You can then react to this by trying to look around the crowd to see who did it.

Emotes by "someones" usually result in a scan fest - which is fine because the characters noticed whatever it was that was happening.  Expecting someone to 'ignore' the someone creeping upon them emote is silly.  Of course you notice it - it's right there in front of you - if you didn't notice it you would not have seen it.

Anything visual implies that you've seen it.  If you don't want another to see it use the 'think' command and emote in there.

[Anonymous]

Emotes by "someones" usually result in a scan fest - which is fine because the characters noticed whatever it was that was happening.  Expecting someone to 'ignore' the someone creeping upon them emote is silly.

No...its expecting people to roleplay something other than complete and utter omniscience on the part of their PC.

When you are at a busy restaurant do you notice everyone who walks in the door?
When you are in the middle of a crowded city street do you notice everyone turning onto your block?

Just because something pops up on your screen doesn't mean your PC would be in a position to notice it.

Any other conclusion involves everyone sitting watching the door to a tavern, or continually looking at every corner of the tavern, watching the shadows.

I hate scan spam when someone pumps out a someone emote.  I don't play thiefy characters, but I'd rather they emote from their hidden position and add flavour to the game than spamming sneak/hide/look/peek/steal and sneaking back out.

[Anonymous]

No...its expecting people to roleplay something other than complete and utter omniscience on the part of their PC.

Why?  If it is there on the screen then they can see it.  Should they elect not to - all the power to them but it is their perogative to note it.  If a 'someone' is doing open emotes - then I expect they want to be noticed.

When you are at a busy restaurant do you notice everyone who walks in the door?
When you are in the middle of a crowded city street do you notice everyone turning onto your block?

Sometimes yes.  Especially if they are obvious about doing something - which is what "someone" emoting is doing.  Once again, in no way should a 'someone' be emoting all the time unless they are doing something that would be noticed.  If they wish to be all sneaky then use think.

[crymerci]

Why?  If it is there on the screen then they can see it.  Should they elect not to - all the power to them but it is their perogative to note it.  If a 'someone' is doing open emotes - then I expect they want to be noticed.

The player can see it. That doesn't mean the character can. It's up to the player to look at the emote and decide whether or not theeir character would see it and take note.

Sometimes yes.  Especially if they are obvious about doing something - which is what "someone" emoting is doing.  Once again, in no way should a 'someone' be emoting all the time unless they are doing something that would be noticed.  If they wish to be all sneaky then use think.

I agree that they shouldn't be emoting all the time, since one of the tenets of being hidden is not calling attention to oneself. However, especially in a crowded environment, as most public places in Zalanthas are, people can be periperally aware that something is happening nearby without knowing exactly who or what is happening. There have been some fine examples of such hidden emotes in this thread and others. IMO using only 'think' all the time borders on twinkishness, as it never gives the other person a chance to see you unless they scan regularly, which someone would probably think was twinkish.

Oh, and a side-note in response to an earlier post: look may not echo when hidden, but failed peeks do. It's kind of a creepy echo, too.

[Cenghiz]

Someone grins as he walks a step further.

>scan

NO! This IS twinkish! How can you see if the code itself says you can't see?! (Someone, it says). If I emote stepping on a branch or knocking down a seat, OK it means you may sense it. If I emote moving under a torch, you may emote seeing a change in shadows then scan. Do you want all thieves to type sneak,w,hide, steal coins <bla>, e? NO? Then please respect 'someone' emoters. You, guest... Your opinion is NOT important. That's the rule, 'someone' emotes are shown because someone may want to draw attention by chuckling in his RP. Not for 'someone' scanner twinks.
The code may give you advantages sometimes when it's twinkish. You may throw daggers to some sentinel NPC's all the day. You may draw all scrabs to guards  in gates. You may cook without fire. You may craft stones without even a dagger. Do all these also look sensible to you? Think of it, you may do these codewise.
Then... Try looking and that 'someone' or grin back at him. You won't be able to. You can't point him codewise. So... You may see him but not address him eh?

>say -chuckling I sense someone's grinning at me...

Is this the solution for you? Read the docs about roleplaying in Allanak. Please read them and don't ruin our RP.

Cenghiz who wants to emote while hiding.

[Bestatte]

I think a great solution to this would be a couple of added echoes to taverns.

>Someone pads out the door, their hood pulled close over their head.

>Flickers from the lamp on the western wall cast dancing shadows over the crowd as someone passes by.

>With a hurried gait, someone walks by the round, blue-painted table and disappears into the crowd.

Let's see how many people start scanning when they find out that these "someones" are nothing more than coded scripts. Remember, if it's truly in character for your character to scan every time "someone" comes by, you will scan EVERY time someone comes by. Even if it's just a coded script and not actually a PC or animated NPC.

If you're not willing to make a fuss scanning or responding to EVERY "someone" regardless of its source, then you need to reconsider your character's actions. If he is facing EAST, then a "someone" emoting about his movements on the WEST side of the room should have absolutely -no- effect on you whatsoever.

If your character is being lectured by a Templar, I'm guessing it would be a VERY bad idea to suddenly turn away from the Templar and start paying attention to some shadow moving around the room.

If your character is drunk, chances are he won't see his own hand in front of his face, let alone "someone" lurking in the corner.

On the other hand, if "someone" is looking you over, or brushing by your clothes, or whispering in your ear, then you have the option of noticing it or not - depending on what you're doing at the time. You might only notice a sudden breeze ruffling your hair, or you might immediately reach to check your pockets because you're paranoid and ANY movement too close to you is a suspected stealin filthy 'rinthi elf.

Pay attention to your surroundings. Pay attention to YOUR own location within those surroundings. And act - react - appropriately and responsibly to the environment and your place within it.

[Angela Christine]

I think a great solution to this would be a couple of added echoes to taverns.

>Someone pads out the door, their hood pulled close over their head.

>Flickers from the lamp on the western wall cast dancing shadows over the crowd as someone passes by.

>With a hurried gait, someone walks by the round, blue-painted table and disappears into the crowd.

Woo, I agree!  And, if possible, could these replace the one about a VNPC vomiting on a coded table?  Most people that don't want to deal with being vomited on just avoid that table now.   :roll:  Maybe a virtual table could be vomited upon?

Anyway, I think it is usually cheesy to stand and scan everytime you see a "someone" out of the corner of your eye.  Sometimes I'll even ignore someone shadowing me poorly, because the streets are crowded enough that it is plausible that the follower could just be going in the same direction as me.  

As a rule of thumb I'll usually wait until I see 3 suspicious echos before I take action.  Even then, the old stand-and-scan may not be the most appropriate action.  If scanning could be done sitting down, then maybe I'd do it, but if I'm busy warming my ass on a barstool and enjoying an ale I don't want to stand up and look around the room.  At this point I might emote glancing around suspiciously and pulling the ties on my containers a little tighter (and code wise make sure all my closeable containers are closed).  If I am already standing up I'm more likely to scan, but not if I'm sitting or resting.

AC

[God]

Maybe a virtual table could be vomited upon?

Hmm, virtual crowds that can't be listened to, now virtual tables that can't be sat on? You're joking, right?  

[EvilRoeSlade]

I agree with Sancho.  Sure, he came off as a complete and utter madman, but I like that in a person.

If you emote when you are hidden, what you are basically doing is giving people OOC knowledge that they have no right to possess.  On a related note, I really don't trust anybody that I don't know personally, not to abuse OOC knowledge.  Hell, just yesterday somebody suggested that my character might be a thief because HE ISN'T GOOD AT FIGHTING.  Of course, this was in a clan where I pretty much expect that type of behavior, but even so it doesn't give me surges of hope for the playerbase at large.

By no means do I think that by not emoting am I failing to enrich the Role-Playing atmosphere of the world.  Why?  Because I'm doing more than my fair share of enrichment by stealing from you in a place such as the bazaar or a seedy tavern where you ICly might expect to be stolen from.

[sancho]

- - You agree with a madman like me? Well... then I would say my seeds of evil have blossumed into bloss- (damn, can't think of a homonym!!!)-ums of evil!

ZALANTHAS IS MINE! *thunderclap* GNA HA HAHA HAHA HAHAHA!!!

GNAHA HAHA HAHAHA HAHA *thunderclap* AHAHAHA HAHA HAHAHA HAHA HAHAHA HAHA HAHAHA HAHA HAHAHA HAHA HAHAHA HAHA HAHAHA HAHA HAHAHA AHA HAHA HAHAHA AHAHA HAHAHA HAHA HAHAHA HAHA HAHAHA HAHA HAHAHA HAHA HAHAHA HAHA HAHAHA *wheeze* HAHA HAHAHA AHAHA AHA AHAHA HAHA HAHAHA HAHA HAHAHA HAHA HAHAHA HAHA HAHAHA HAHA HAHAHA HAHA HAHAHA HAHA HAHAHA HAHA HAHAHA HAHA HAHAHA HAHA HAHAHA HAHA HAHAHA HAHA HAHAHA AHAHA!!!