Emotive Styles

[James de Monet]

One area I think might give a little frame of reference to this topic is when a character is thinking.  People who are thinking don't usually look like they're thinking unless they want you to know that they're thinking (otherwise they tend to look like they're staring).  You all know the look I'm talking about.  The eyes go to the side (or up), we screw up our faces a little, and maybe, for effect, add in a big, "ummm......".  However, if you were to write this as a descriptive emote, people might well think your char just crapped himself.  It doesn't convey well in text.  Vis-a-vis, however, they'd know exactly what that face meant, "give me a minute, I'm thinking."  So, you could write "the nondescript man [looks like he's crapping himself]" or you could write "the nondescript man scratches his chin in thought."  Is it a giveaway?  Sure, but it would be in real life, too.  It's meant to be.

Another one is remembering something.  You can write "the nondescript man snaps his fingers as he gives his head a quick dip, sighing vexedly," but honestly, I think it's unwieldy, and it's a little hard to picture.  "The nondescript mad snaps his fingers as though remembering something" is simpler and more effective.  Again, IRL, eveyone knows what a snap and that weird little noise you make in the back of your throat while exhaling through your nose means, but how do you set it down in text?




P.S. I gotta say about the facepalm thing, though.  That does kind of bother me.  I think it's because honestly, it seems like a modern gesture, like a high five, or the bird.  It isn't a natural gesture (at least, not when you associate it with a recently assigned name, there's the crux).  It has cultural meaning.  If you type, "drops his face into his hand, looking distressed" I probably wouldn't even notice, but "facepalms" is a little jarring.  Plus, I think its presence on UrbanDictionary is bad for your case of the acceptability of its use on Arm.    :wink:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=facepalm

[Lizzie]

I've seen the eye-casting thing too Hymwen. It doesn't really bother me but sometimes when I'm in a mood it makes me snicker because I'm pretty sure the player doesn't really mean their eyeballs aren't really leaving their heads and wandering around the bar. On the other hand I've probably typed that once or twice til I realized how silly it looked. So now I do a "casting a gaze" or "her gaze scanning the crowd" with the occasional reference to the color or shape of her eyes (her cool blue-eyed gaze or something like that).

I've seen a lot of odd emotes lately, but most of them from just a few different characters. It does bother me when emotes become editorials. That's the term I use for it. So-and-so opts to shut the hell up - is an editorial. So and so peers curiously at you, because he thinks you look familiar - is an editorial. I even saw someone add talking to an emote, which I really did find jarring. "The guy looks at you and says "Nice to see you." Or something like that. Talk about breaking through the language barriers.

Basically it gets down to this:

If your emote is telling me why you are doing something, if your emote is telling me how you feel about something, I probably would rather see it worded differently to make me guess how or why. The term "emote" is inaccurate. You're not really displaying your character's emotions. You're acting. In some games that's the actual term: Act. You're telling -what- is going on, and letting the player reading your text discover (or not) the whys and hows of it.

L. Stanson

[flurry]

I think the OP makes a good point about emoting that can cross the line in terms of modern slang or anachronisms.  I haven't seen many of those, but I think it can be a problem.

I just wanted to remark on one thing that has come up a few times in this thread.  People have made reference to this usually happening in "private" situations or among small numbers of players.  I'm not sure that should be a consideration.  It's rare that you're guaranteed to be in private, especially if you include immortals.  Even if you were, I don't think it's a good idea to relax your own standards of roleplay, because it's bound to spill over into more public scenes.

[spawnloser]

If people can "facepalm," what's to stop people from "jumping to his feet fo' reelz biotch?"

[bardbard#4]

If people can "facepalm," what's to stop people from "jumping to his feet fo' reelz biotch?"

Because they aren't at all the same?

Facepalm = palms his/her face.

for reelz biotch = ebonics.

[Marauder Moe]

Facepalm = palms his/her face.

for reelz biotch = ebonics.

And neither is officially part of the English language.

[bardbard#4]

That doesn't mean they are equally jarring.  Ebonics is far, far more egregious than facepalm.

[Marauder Moe]

Where do you draw the line, though?  Some arbitrary border based on what feels jarring, or Websters?

[bardbard#4]

I think in this particular case, facepalm is just a simple truncation of a phrase.  The components of it are two actual words: face and palm.  When you start using words like 'reelz' and 'biotch', you are delving heavily into regional patois, which incidentally leads to words being outlandishly misspelled to accurately depict their pronunciation.  It'd be like having someone speak like Ali G, and that's just silly.

[Marauder Moe]

Facepalm is a modern phrase, even more modern than much of ebonics.

[bardbard#4]

I don't think its modernness can be used as an argument against it.  It may be modern, but its linguistic differentiation from real English is far less than ebonics.  I mean come on....emote palms his face.  emote facepalms himself.  Heck, put in a hyphen to make it a little more appropriate: emote face-palms himself.  It's not THAT much of a departure.  How can you possibly argue that this is on the same level as ebonics?

I think we should consult Noam Chomsky.

[bardbard#4]

Incidentally, I think actually expanding 'facepalm' into its real action looks better and has more stylistic oomph to it, but I don't get terribly upset when I see it.  It's one of those things that I think people don't realize might seem jarring, because it is so close to the actual phrase.

[Marauder Moe]

I put it on the same level because of where I draw the border around acceptable Armageddon language.

"What bardbard#4 feels isn't too jarring" is not a good way to define what's ok and what isn't.

I place "facepalm" and ebonics on the same level because both are neither in the dictionary nor are they Armageddon-specific terms.

[Lizzie]

The words fat, dope, and crib are all in the dictionary. And yet I would find it extremely jarring to see them laced in the following sentence:

Your clothes are fat, they make you look dope and I want to take you to my crib.

It's modern slang, and doesn't belong, even though it -is- in the dictionary.

As for facepalm, from what I understand it is more of a cartoon/chat convention than a word used in real life. I mean, how many of you have used the word facepalm in daily conversation at work or with your buddies at the beer hall? I have -never- heard the word said out loud, by anyone, anywhere, in any circumstance. I have, however, seen it written in comic books and in chat rooms.

Chat speak doesn't belong in any RPI, though I'm sure plenty of hack-n-slashes are fine with it.

L. Stanson

[Marauder Moe]

To assume that when I say "a word that is not in the dictionary and isn't an Armageddon term isn't acceptable for use in the game" I am implying "a word that is in the dictionary is also acceptable for use in the game" would be faulty logic.

[Lizzie]

One can only hope the general population would realize that Moe. I was just making sure to include it so that semantics freaks and nitpickers would be headed off at the pass, so to speak.

L. Stanson

[ale six]

Eyes are a thing that get overemoted a lot. I used to do this myself, reading back through logs of my first couple PCs I shiver at how many times my crystal-blue eyes or light-flecked hazel eyes did this or that. Plus, when you're talking with someone in a bar or somewhere, unless you are REALLY paying attention to them (i.e. watch), are you going to notice every little thing their eyes do? Luckily, now we have the wonderful hemote command, and I encourage everyone to use that for small gestures like eye movements and facial twitches.

And before I get back on the topic, let me just say... eyes are eyes. They are not "orbs". Just like hair is hair and not string.

Sorry for going there, but since the thread is about emote pet peeves, I had to get it off my chest.


Anyway! I still don't see any more problem with facepalm than I would with, say, giving someone a thumbs-up or a handshake or flipping the bird. I guess that doesn't jar me as much as reading ebonics or seeing someone talk like they're playing Counterstrike would.

Beyond that I mostly agree with what Lizzie said, so I'll opt to shut the hell up and watch.

[spawnloser]

:lol:

Code Select Expand

You horrendously slash the carru in the neck.
The carru falls to the ground.
The guy in green armor slashes the carru in the neck really hard.

[BEEP]

> say gg good buddy gg
The guy in red armor says, over his head-set:
  "gg good buddy gg"

The guy in green armor says, over his head-set:
  "yeah gg gg"I can see it now. :twisted:

More seriously, though, the point I was making about 'facepalm' and ebonics is that they both aren't English that everyone is going to know, being slang.  I'd prefer to err on the side of encouraging people NOT to do it for others' comprehension.

[Nao]

Facepalm is pretty self-explanatory, even I got a good image of it when I first heard this.

[Maso]

I had never seen/heard the term 'facepalm' until someone used it in an emote on Arm.  :shock:

[Hot_Dancer]

Save the funny emotes for the mudsex.

[a strange shadow]

Save the funny emotes for the mudsex.

QFMFT.

[psionic fungus]

The nondescript mad snaps his fingers as though remembering something

I just want to point out that I find this to be much less irksome than:

"The nondescript man snaps his fingers, remembering something."

The use of "as though" helps establish that this is detailing the way he snaps his fingers.  The alternative "remembering something" simply tells us that he is remembering something.  The type of emote that -really- gets on my nerves, using this example, would be:

"The nondescript man snaps his fingers, obviously remembering something."

Now not only are you simply telling me that he is remembering something, you're telling me that it is obvious as well.  I could see an emote like that from across the room while in the middle of another conversation. I would prefer to see good use of physically descriptive words coupled with the use of the hemote command.

This is the way I would -prefer- to see the emote:

"You notice: Biting his cracked lower lip as he looks towards the silt-caked ceiling,  the nondescript man snaps his fingers and nods, expression shifting to a wry grin."

[Folker]

About the showing of emotions rather than letting the viewer guess, I've always done that and always prefered when others do that. I'd rather see "sends you an angry look" than "frowns and looks at you with a lowered brow" or something to that extent. Not saying that it's appropriate to "looks at you sadly because you killed their best friend", but you can use sadly and I'd have no problems with it.

I agree with this one. "frowns and looks at you with a lowered brow" may mean so many things. It may mean that they're worried, ponderious, puzzled, tense, angered, or just plain hungry. While in RL, you would in most cases deduce the body language immediately, from context, and dozens if not hundreds of subtle things which would require one and a half of screen length to fully describe. It 'is' much easier to just glance angrilly, because well ... you understand it, you can 'imagine' it in your head, and it does 'not' break the atmosphere apart. You do not think your character would've understood the facial expression? Then dont let your chara understand it, inquire about the odd face they're giving you, or just plain ignore it.


And just to leap onto the bandwagon. The most funniest and most jarring emote I've seen was something of that sort:

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So and so leans on the bar, watching the show of the two men arguing, it looks like the only thing she's lacking is a bowl of popcorn

Something like that, I soo wanted to backstab that character.

[ale six]

"frowns and looks at you with a lowered brow" may mean so many things. It may mean that they're worried, ponderious, puzzled, tense, angered, or just plain hungry. While in RL, you would in most cases deduce the body language immediately, from context, and dozens if not hundreds of subtle things which would require one and a half of screen length to fully describe. It 'is' much easier to just glance angrilly, because well ... you understand it, you can 'imagine' it in your head, and it does 'not' break the atmosphere apart. You do not think your character would've understood the facial expression? Then dont let your chara understand it, inquire about the odd face they're giving you, or just plain ignore it.

You hit on precisely why I prefer emotes like the one you described not liking, Folker: they can mean many different things, and you don't know right away. I don't WANT to know exactly what that expression means, it's more interesting and intriguing for me when I have to get inside a character's head and make some guesses. In most cases the context of the scene should be enough for you to figure out, or else you can always ask the PC what's up. A good emote will be able to -show- you what a PC is doing or feeling without having to explicitly -tell- you.