Mobs and healing.

[Beux]

Do mobs (mobiles = npcs, but I'm just referring to the ones that we hunt) heal perfectly without sleep?

I was tailing a certain creature, managed to get it to a pretty low level of health, but as I was pretty hurt to, decided to flee and go rest, keeping an eye on the creature so I could go back for it. When I finally decide to go back for it, I find it's in excellent condition while I have been sleeping and am still pretty hurt - and yes, I know it was the same one - because it was angered and followed me when only one room away even though not a usually aggressive creature.

I actually thought the idea of taking some time and planning over taking down a creature quite fun. Wounding it, resting then tailing it for the final blow seems like a good hunting tactic when dealing with stronger creatures, however it's kind of spoiled by the fact they seem to have super healing abilities or Vivudians hiding in their pockets.

I really think the same rules should apply to mobs as to PC's, they should remain hurt/regen just as slowly without sleep. It also means that you can stumble across wounded creatures and finish them off, so to speak.

This would be much more realistic, and I can't really see any reason why it isn't or shouldn't, be this way.

[MorganChaos]

Seconded.

[Marauder Moe]

I think most of them DO have the same regen rules as PCs.  Like PCs, a mob hurt to, say, only 90% of it's max health is going to regenerate that pretty quickly even if standing up.

[Gunnerblaster]

I agree with Beux.

[Dalmeth]

I personally don't think they should heal like normal PCs, or at least most shouldn't.  Now in the case of the absolutely huge, difficult to damge NPCs and the hunter-killers, yeah, they shouldn't have the ultra-heal.

The thing is, when a PC gets injured, they run and take shelter.  NPCs do not.    It just makes it too easy.  Then there's the fact that what you see as a PC doesn't represent the virtual population.  So, I think the way things are currently works fairly well.

Now the hunter-killers are where the ultra-heal gets a bit odd.  NPCs regenerate stamina at a rate so fast that the hunter-killers move almost always move at a rate that is almost equivalent to their fully rested state.  A cooldown period would be nice for when they reach the completely exhausted status.  Also, slower healing would make it worthwhile attempting to fight them without the safe assurance that you can completely dominate them.

[LoD]

Do mobs (mobiles = npcs, but I'm just referring to the ones that we hunt) heal perfectly without sleep?

I really think the same rules should apply to mobs as to PC's, they should remain hurt/regen just as slowly without sleep. It also means that you can stumble across wounded creatures and finish them off, so to speak.

This would be much more realistic, and I can't really see any reason why it isn't or shouldn't, be this way.

NPC's have both advantages and disadvantages to keep a balance.

The real issue I see with your example is that you were "pretty hurt" from the wounds delivered by some NPC, yet returned shortly thereafter to fight again.  If you were "pretty hurt" then you probably should've called it a day and spent some time recovering from wounds that were likely extremely painful and required some bed rest for recovery.  

The code doesn't penalize you with a "wound" code because it trusts in the players to RP their injuries accordingly, which sometimes requires them to make the command decision to get some rest after a bloody exchange even though their health score reads full.  

-LoD

[EvilRoeSlade]

YOU healed your wounds in the intervening time just fine, unrealistically, I might add.

Why complain when an NPC does the same?

[Hymwen]

Some (or all?) NPCs seem to regenerate obscenely fast. It's probably coded that way to prevent abuse, but sometimes it's too much. I had a PC who was a poor archer, and she actually had trouble taking down creatures because they would recover so fast. I remember shooting at this animal a few times, then I ran out of arrows and snuck in to pick up a few of the ones I missed. While in the room with the animal I assessed it and it was "does not look well". I went back out, shot 2-3 more times, all of which missed, and then went back in to finish it with melee weapons. In the maybe 20 seconds that had passed, this animal had recovered up to "looks relatively fit".

If nothing else, I'd like to see victims of archery receiving a combat flag that prevents recovery until a short while passes without any hostile action.

[WarriorPoet]

YOU healed your wounds in the intervening time just fine, unrealistically, I might add.

Why complain when an NPC does the same?

Gospel.

-WP

[Cyrian20]

I really think the same rules should apply to mobs as to PC's, they should remain hurt/regen just as slowly without sleep. It also means that you can stumble across wounded creatures and finish them off, so to speak.

Using that thinking npcs shouldn't sit there while you heal up a couple rooms away, while I agree; I don't want to see people fighitng and fleeing to chip away mobs. Realistically if you beat the beast down and had to back off, why would it sit there and wait for you to come back all refreshed in a little bit?

Just something to think about.

[Dakkon Black]

I think the overall point goes to both sides of the rp question.

What if you beat the snot of out of it, and it gets a hard hit on your arm.

You run off, bandage up your arm because you know how to, strap it tightly down, and take up your spear with your good arm and head back to finish it off.

In the time that you've done that, he's gone from near death to excellent or relatively fit. That's when it seems stupid. I know that Zal animals are tough, but that tough?

[rufus]

Sim-Desert is your friend.

i <3 simdesert

[LoD]

What if you beat the snot of out of it, and it gets a hard hit on your arm.

If the damage was enough to make you disengage from the fight to bandage and bind your arm, then your character should make his choice:

:arrow: Return to fight an angry, wounded animal with less than 100% use of his arm.

:arrow: Return to his home to rest his arm, see his friends/family, and hunt another day.

If he couldn't finish the job with full use of both arms, what makes him think that it's going to be an easy feat now that he's handicapped?  This scenario screams of an OOC desire to "make a kill" rather than IC desire to accomplish something worth permanent bodily injury or death.

-LoD

[Beux]

YOU healed your wounds in the intervening time just fine, unrealistically, I might add.

Why complain when an NPC does the same?

Gospel.

-WP

I didn't heal...I hobbled back into the fray, determined to 'finish' it off.

And I didn't expect it to sit there...and it didn't...I had to stalk it. But damnit. I healed about 5hp and it was back to perfect. It was nearly dead!

[Chronicle]

I think LoD is right - but if you don't want to look at it that way, then look at it this way:
If the code fucks you - fuck the code!
Eventually you will get strong enough to kill this animal off without getting totally ripped to shreds
This is a game of patience in developing your skills, give it time and you won't have an excuse to complain

[Gunnerblaster]

:arrow: Return to his home to rest his arm, see his friends/family, and hunt another day.

Reading through this, it makes me realize how correct both sides are. Though it's unfair that the creature heals 2x's as fast, it makes RP sense a little. If your forced to disengage, in the first place, what's the point in going back, until you can heal up - RP style?

[Beux]

...

I just stalked and loaded 17 arrows into a deer. And it didn't die. Why? Because it heals faster than I can fire a bow. But no worries. It's now running around, in excellent condition, with 17 arrows poking out of it. Like a porcupine.

It makes no damn sense people.

[WarriorPoet]

...

I just stalked and loaded 17 arrows into a deer. And it didn't die. Why? Because it heals faster than I can fire a bow. But no worries. It's now running around, in excellent condition, with 17 arrows poking out of it. Like a porcupine.

It makes no damn sense people.

Maybe the arrows only glanced off? Mayne your arms/bow is too weak to penetrate the thick hide? Maybe you're a poorly skilled archer?

I've seen many paintings of native american buffalo hunts with incredible amounts of lances and arrows feathering the big, thick-hided beasts. I'm sure they thought it sucked that their first through tenth arrows didn't take them down, but they persisted...

-WP

EDIT: Rereading the thread, I definately see your point, but I much prefer the rapid healing NPC's to the alternative, which is a hunter fighting with a beast, getting badly hurt, running off to sleep off his brutal chomps to the face, then returning to fight. \

[Vessol]

I think that this could only be fixed with a new wound/hitpoints system, I don't know how it would be done, but I am sure many here have good ideas.

[FightClub]

Npc's heal quickly to keep people from flee sleeping to return and finish the fight, since they can rest or sleep.  As far as I know it's a good time before they actively start regenerating, and I don't think it's an outstanding rate, but enough to heal pretty quick -- perhaps like normal sitting or resting speed for a player that is in moderate health.  I mean effectively, npc's always must heal faster than pc's to account for lack of sleep/rest, even in a SOI hitpoint type system.  

The only way really to slow this down would be to kick down the regeneration rate for players. What do you think about that?! No? -- didn't think so.

...

I just stalked and loaded 17 arrows into a deer. And it didn't die. Why? Because it heals faster than I can fire a bow. But no worries. It's now running around, in excellent condition, with 17 arrows poking out of it. Like a porcupine.

It makes no damn sense people.

Archery code was recently redone -- what kind of bow you using? One strung with grass and some crunchy twigs?  What kind of arrows?  What's your strength? Agility? You just starting with a bow? You shoot 564 arrows and those were the 17 to stick?  How thick is the hide on the thing you shooting? Was it a bahamet?  Yeah his wall thick shell wouldn't be harmed by your arrows.  Just some thoughts.

[Beux]

Archery code was recently redone -- what kind of bow you using? One strung with grass and some crunchy twigs?  What kind of arrows?  What's your strength? Agility? You just starting with a bow? You shoot 564 arrows and those were the 17 to stick?  How thick is the hide on the thing you shooting? Was it a bahamet?  Yeah his wall thick shell wouldn't be harmed by your arrows.  Just some thoughts.

I did consider all of those things...And I did state it was 'deer' type of animal. And no, hobviously I'm not the best archer in the world, else I would have killed the thing, but 17 is excessive for it still to be in excellent condition.

Maybe there should be some addition to the archery code that means when someone does land a -good- shot with an arrow, it permantly lowers the NPC's health, well, for animals anyway. IF they've got an arrow stuck in them, I can't imagine they're about to go ask their mate to get his hooves up and yank them out.

[LoD]

I just stalked and loaded 17 arrows into a deer. And it didn't die. Why? Because it heals faster than I can fire a bow. But no worries. It's now running around, in excellent condition, with 17 arrows poking out of it. Like a porcupine.

It makes no damn sense people.

It makes about as much sense as a deer sitting there while you put 17 arrows into it.

There are many things done in Armageddon for playability, not realism.  Stab wounds to an unprotected neck location, picking things up even though your character is holding two items, unbreakable doors, inflammable wagons, PC and NPC healing rates, hawks perched on people's shoulders in sandstorms, these things, and many others, are not realistic; yet, they remain a very real part of the gameworld to help balance playability.

My advice is to stop searching for realism, and start accepting the world as it is written.  There are many unrealistic things that help you, but you seem content to mention only the ones that were working directly against an unsuccessful hunt.  These are a few of the trade offs as far as NPC's are concerned:

Advantages NPC's Hold

:arrow: Some NPC's suffer little movement lag (soldiers)
:arrow: Some NPC's are able to kick/bash/disarm with little lag.
:arrow: Some NPC's work in groups.
:arrow: Some NPC's have certain attack patterns and scripts.
:arrow: Some NPC's are mean, nasty things not meant to be confronted by anyone, much less ONE hunter/fighter.
:arrow: Some NPC's will heal wounds quickly without rest/sleep.

Disadvantages NPC's Have

:arrow: NPC's will generally stand anywhere while pelted with arrows/missiles.
:arrow: NPC's will generally stand around after being attacked, without following.
:arrow: NPC's generally won't hire assassins to kill you after you attacked them 5 times.
:arrow: NPC's will generally not act intelligently in relation to the fight by fleeing, subduing, using archery/missiles, etc...
:arrow: NPC's will generally watch their friends be killed while standing idly by.
:arrow: NPC's will generally not warn its friends and allies that men are slaughtering their people by the 10's.

If you ever take advantage of a single one of the disadvantages listed above during your hunts, then you probably shouldn't complain about the advantages they also receive.  Hunting would be much more difficult if the NPC's acted liked PC's when they were approached or attacked.  Consider if your position would be better or worse should that change be implemented.

-LoD

[FightClub]

If you ever take advantage of a single one of the disadvantages listed above during your hunts, then you probably shouldn't complain about the advantages they also receive.  Hunting would be much more difficult if the NPC's acted liked PC's when they were approached or attacked.  Consider if your position would be better or worse should that change be implemented.

Me take advantages of coded, unrealistic disadvantages, never -- who do I look like -- a twink?

(tells beux to quit foraging for rocks to throw at the gith they've been pelting for the past hour)

[Gunnerblaster]

Now that I think about it, though. If the NPC's heal 2x's faster, then wouldn't they have an upperhand in any battle? Unlike the NPC's, the PC's don't heal as they take damage. Maybe it could possibly fixed to wear the NPC's don't heal while in a fight, or something? Don't mind me. Just tossing out ideas.

[Rhyden]

Maybe it could possibly fixed to wear the NPC's don't heal while in a fight, or something?

They don't, to the best of my knowledge.

[Gunnerblaster]

They don't, to the best of my knowledge.

Oh, okay. Thanks for clearing that up, for me, then.

[Dalmeth]

Now that I think about it, though. If the NPC's heal 2x's faster, then wouldn't they have an upperhand in any battle? Unlike the NPC's, the PC's don't heal as they take damage. Maybe it could possibly fixed to wear the NPC's don't heal while in a fight, or something? Don't mind me. Just tossing out ideas.

The only way an animal can heal during a fight is in the case of those things that draw back into a shell.  Even then, they aren't technically in combat while they are drawn back into the shell.