Half Giants: Cookie Cutter?

[Clearsighted]

So it seems every half giant I've ever encountered is played in the exact same  'hideously strong retard puppy' idiom. There does not seem to me, to be as much challenge in playing one, as there is in any of the non-karma races. They all seem to have the 'good natured, 'vaguely confused' and occassional 'hulk smash' thing going. I thought that half giants learned by watching others.

Didn't they ever watch someone whom was serious or tried to act with dignity? I walked up to a half giant whom I thought was a mean looking, serious fellow, and I got the same slack-jawked yokel shit-eating grin that seems copy and pasted by now.

If it weren't for the sdesc, it'd be hard to tell some half-giants apart.

So do people who manage to amass 3 karma just go through a half-giant phase where they don't need to worry about the stuff they used to and just lean back and enjoy the strength?

[WarriorPoet]

I've seen very few well-played HG's, but they exist. Most of your common halfgiants seem to be 'Lenny' characters, without the depth...

My own HalfGiant sat in the Gaj for maybe ten minutes, with me staring at the keyboard trying to figure out how to make him not so cliche. Thankfully I was retired to play a sexy gypsy almost immediately. I cringe when I think about how that character would have turned out.

-WP doubts he will ever play another HG. Dumb and easily-led doesn't do it for me at all.

[Reiloth]

I personally think half-giants should be removed as a playable race.

Wow, what a crack up. Andre the giant with the intelligence of a five year old.

From the docs:

Roleplaying: Half-giants have no culture to speak of. Possessed of astounding degrees of curiosity and kindness (usually), half-giants very willingly adopt the customs of those nearby, and especially the customs of friends. This trait can be either a benefit or a serious detriment to those friends (or neighbors), depending on the circumstances. Half- giants are able to switch their loyalties very quickly, and some races (such as elves) find this to be intolerable.

Above it says:

From their giant kin, half-giants have inherited incredible size and strength, and their endurance is matched only by muls and sturdy dwarves. However, possibly due to the magick which birthed half-giants, they are infamously stupid and have very low wisdoms. In addition, because of their great size, half-giants are typically slow to move and have low agilities. Half-giants, because of their great size, cannot usually wear clothing or armor designed for smaller demihumans.

Nowhere in here do I see: You should play this huge mongoloid as if he were completely retarded. In fact, you've amounted 3 karma, so we trust that you'll fully understand how to "dumb down" your roleplay. So fart a lot, try to make your character as funny as possible and cute with how dumb he is. It'll be a gas for the PC populace near you.

...

At one time, I saw potential in half-giants. I thought they would be played as if they were incredibly slow at understanding concepts, but once they got it, they'd show everyone how 'smart' they were. Like explaining sex to a half-giant make make for some interesting, hilarious roleplaying. I took their inherent curiosity to mean that everything another person would talk about, would enrapture the half-giant. Anything the half-giant had the remotest idea about, he'd be suddenly genuinely interested. I didn't envision half-giants as being a blank slate, and when you tell it somthing, it just says "Huh?" for hours on end. Or, like some sort of old computer, you can completely confuse by repeating its questions.

I have noticed that every single half-giant is played in the same fashion as well, and personally, think it detracts from the gaming enviroment of Armageddon moreso than enriching it. I'm sorry. I don't like half-giants. I don't think they're cute, laughable, or even remotely interesting. You might say "Well..You've never seen a well-played half-giant." You're right. I haven't. I'm going to take a stand and say they 100% suck.

then again, thats just my opinion.

[Dakkon Black]

I've seen a few H-G's Ic in the last little while. I suppose most of them are happy and not concerned with the usual frustration and racial edge that most of Zalanthas has.

At the same time, I don't think cute and stupid is the way to play a Giant, and agree that I'd like to see more giants who mostly focus on curiosity as their drive, over mindless Huh's.

There have been giants who have acted quite stately, and nobly, not to mention speaking very well and clean, without slang terms and in a polite manner. Why? Because they hung out all the time with nobles, etc.

Playing a HG for me was a bit of a challenge, but playing them like a 5 year old child really isn't right. For one, talk to the next 5 year old kid you meet, they might not be EDUCATED, but they are SMART and SHARP mentally. Playing your giant as a child is instantly wrong for this reason.

Giants are much different, and there are some other good posts on this GDB about giant rp and how to pull it off, or try to. I had a blast playing a HG, and allthough there were concepts that he either A, didn't get, or B, didn't care about getting, he could very much decide over good decisions and bad ones.

A good example I use is one of dogs. The mental capaticy for speach of ANY kind is a huge leap over dogs, and yet the average 5 year old dog can understand a HUGE amount of our language if we talk to it. I think of most HG's as large bulldog's who are smart enough to reply and tell others what they are thinking and feeling, and are the happiest when they are fitting in with others around them.

[spawnloser]

By definition, 'retarded' means 'slowness or limitation in intellectual understanding and awareness,' which seems to be pretty accurate when talking about a race of people that have the smartest of them on par with the dumbest of humans.

Considering the documentation describes them, as Reiloth pointed out, as, '[p]ossessed of astounding degrees of curiosity and kindness (usually),' wouldn't it make sense for your average HG to be generally friendly?

Personally, I will agree that HG's tend towards certain attitudes, and rarely go out of their way to adapt in certain ways (part of this being that they can't often afford to just switch up their clothing like others, what with the ridiculous tailoring fees they would need to get the clothing for their adapting).  Still, I think there have been a few very well-played HGs.  Just like any race or guild, there are some cookie-cutter characters and some exceptional characters.  I say play on.

[Angela Christine]

The difficulty you run into playing a half-giant is that if you don't play as a drooling moron people can accuse you of ignoring the racial docs and playing "too smart."  If you do play as a total idiot you can be accused of playing for "comic relief" and ignoring the setting.  If you aren't a stereotypical HG someone somewhere thinks you are doing it wrong.  If you are stereotypical, you are still doing it wrong.   :x

Then there is the problem of the background.  Is a half-giant smart enough to raise her own babies?  Of course she is, even hamsters can raise their own babies (and hardly ever eat them) and there are few mammals more stupid than a hamster.  But some players really and truly believe that a half-giant couldn't raise a kid, so all HG kids should be born to HGs that were in clans, and the humans or other smarties in the clan helped the HG mother take care of her babies.  But if a half-giant was raised in a large organization, wouldn't they usually stay with that clan?  So why are you wandering around with a thousand 'sid in your pockets and no friends?  Under this theory any independent HG is automatically poor roleplay, because HGs are too helpless and dependant to be clanless.  (Unfortunately, putting in your background that you were raised within a clan would require a special application, so that is not an attractive option).


Joining a clan is not hard, but it is hard to reconcile the life oath required by many clans with the HG tendency to wander off with whomever looks most interesting at the moment.  Elves are supposed to hate the HG lack of loyalty, but most PC HGs are pretty darn loyal.


HGs are hard to play.  They are also few and far between, so most people haven't seen tons of PC HGs that they can use as role models when they want to try playing one themselves.  It is a difficult role to master.

[Clearsighted]

Two things strike me as wrong about the docs that are probably contributing to this problem.

1) All half-giants must be overwhelmingly kind and curious.

That is as rediculous as saying all humans must be kind and curious, and all dwarves must be drunks and braggards, or all elves must be devious. These are racial stereotypes. Like saying blacks are good runners, or swedish women are hot. There are plenty of hot blacks that a swedish woman could outrun. Or something like that.

So I find that taking two racial stereotypes and forming them into a holy grail might be contributing to the problem.

And frankly, if an entire race is so stupid that they must maintain this universal set of very specific emotions regardless of upbringing, so much as to make them mostly indistinguishable from each other, then really, we might as well allow PC kanks. Otherwise it's just too stupidly one-dimensional and boring.

2) How did half-giants, whom are the ultimate cultural parasite, EVER manage to acquire kindness and curiousity as the dominant characteristics of their race, when Zalanthas is an environment that sorely punishes both in the extreme?

And frankly, I always thought the half-giant guards were scary as hell. They looked mean, and acted mean, even if they didn't say anything. If the half-giants NPCs were to act even remotely like the majority of half giant PCs, noone would ever get killed for bringing spice through a gate.

Edit: And I wish H-Gs were few and far between. But in the last 3 years, it seems alot of people gained the karma for one, cause I've seen as many half giants as elves or dwarves, and more than half-elves.

[spawnloser]

Heh, not many punish HG's.  Something with very little common sense and strength nearing Hulk-like levels?  I wouldn't want to upset it.

[ThirdEye]

I remember seeing one very well played HG...I think so anyway...


Raaaaarrgggh! I can't smash anyfing!!!

[Barzalene]

I've recently interacted with two half giants. They've each felt very distinct to me. My experience has been largely positive.

I think part of the perceieved problem might not be with the half giants themselves but the way others choose to rp their interactions with them.

[LoD]

So it seems every half giant I've ever encountered is played in the exact same  'hideously strong retard puppy' idiom. There does not seem to me, to be as much challenge in playing one, as there is in any of the non-karma races.

If every giant you've encountered seems to be playing the same character, then perhaps that's a sign that the role perhaps is more challenging than other races.

You're playing what is mostly a foreign concept; someone who has no distinct culture, a lack of intelligence, and a body capable of crushing rock.  The other class choices are much closer to what you and I experience everyday with regard to proportion (i.e. height, weight, size) and interaction (i.e. conversation, decision making).  We can better relate to the physical, emotional, and mental state of the elf, dwarf, half-elf, human, and mul.

And so it's a natural struggle.  How do I personify this dangerous creature who is written as notoriously curious, kind, unintelligent and slow moving?  What's more is that one of the most common thing traipsing behind a templar are going to be half-giant guards.  They are tools of strength, intimidation, raw power, and (somewhat) controllable natures.  The fact that they're given enough trust by the city to be handed a two-handed battle axe, set of armor, militia cloak, and sent on their way to patrol the streets indicates that they are, at the least, capable of following basic orders and patterns for short periods of time.

Angelina hits it right when stating half-giants are given a precarious ledge to walk when deciding how to portray their character.  Too dumb and they're unrealistic, too smart and characters complain that they're ignoring the documentation.  So where is the common ground?  How do you play a half-giant in a way to allow now only diversity between characters, but also a way for them to be faithful to the documentation?

Me Tarzan.  You Templar.

One common misconception is that half-giants must talk like idiots.  Even the most basic of people can form general sentences, and for an entire race gifted with the ability to imitate those around them to be reduced to this style of language is unfortunate.  One should consider their environment: How does everyone else talk?  How does everyone else move?  Half-giants would very likely (and quickly) adapt to their surroundings by watching others.  They would talk as others talk, even borrowing sentences word for word to use again in the future, often out of context.

Adapting to the Environment

If you took three half-giants from three different backgrounds (i.e. wilderness, Tuluk, and the 'rinth) you would likely find three very different personalities, methods of speech, patterns of movement, and ideas of right/wrong.  Each of these three characters would have absorbed aspects of their environment through immitation, and adopted them into their temporary culture.

I see many half-giants "doing their own thing" which probably works counter to how they'd act.  It'd be much more interesting for half-giants to "attach" themselves to people, seek interaction, and spend a lot of their time watching and observing others.  I see half-giants having a fairly difficult time "knowing what to do" with their time, so the curious streak is not necessarily a trait bourne of innocence, but of necessity.  They are curious because above and beyond their simple needs for water, food, and shelter, they aren't really sure what to do most of the time.

Following Others

I have problems with the half-giant characters whom uptake tasks such as heavy crafting, merchanting, making complex independant decisions, negotiating, or exhibiting any modicum of problem solving skills outside of simple survival skills.  Half-giants could probably reproduce a few crafts that they were shown, and then repeat the gesture over and over and over, however, I don't think that they would come up with "new" crafts on their own.  Nor do I believe that they would fall into a routine without some strong reinforcement.

For example, let's say that you take a half-giant guard who is normally surrounded by non-giant guards, and place him alone to guard an outpost somewhere in the desert.  He has no officers telling him where to stand, what to say, what to do, how to act, when to eat, when to sleep, where not to go, etc...  I'd give that half-giant a few days before he started to get bored and wonder what else he should be doing.  He might wander away from the outpost because he saw something moving in the desert and lost his focus on his objective.

It's not because he's a moron.  It's not because he has a four sentence vocabulary.  It's because his nature is very much dependant upon and influenced by the actions, words, and decisions of others.  That is also why half-giants are karma classes.  They aren't easy to play.  They might not even be that fun to play for some people, just as you don't see a lot of mul slaves because the role is limited.

Half-giants can be incredibly entertaining, interesting, and humorous.  However, they can also be dangerous, cumbersome, and infuriating at the same time.  It's really one of the most challenging roles in the game, not only to fully grasp the half-giant mentality, but to embrace and sustain it.

-LoD

[Clearsighted]

I am certain a profound roleplayer with a deep interest in a scene can elicit mostly unique reactions from any PC. But I'm not sure the burden of how forgettable and stereotypical a giant is should depend on those around them. In which case, Rping with them becomes charity.

It just seemed strange to me that a karma 3 race seemed to require the least amount of creativity. It is pretty easy to do the stereotypical HG comic relief routine on autopilot. And even the docs seem to demand it. I.E, I'm pretty sure anyone who could earn karma 1, could play them just as stereotypically well. Just perhaps with a bit less thinks, feels or solo RP. It's not really hard to act like a big clumsy, easily lead oaf all day who will occassionally go hulk smash. It is significantly harder to go beyond that, but most...don't.

It's good that it's a karmic race, since it cuts down on silliness. I just find it interesting that the PCs they played to get the 3 karma required to app a HG, were probably all more satisfying and more interesting to themselves and those around them. And some HGs really RP their stereotypes well. It's just that...they're all the same stereotypes.

That said, I have no doubt it is a challenging role. But it seems strange that all these people who attain the karma required, seem to use their HG phase as a vacation. I'm positive there are exceptions...I can only speak from personal experience. But noone could make the same generalizations about any other race...and doesn't that suggest something?

Edit: Great post, lod. It'd just be nice to see a Half-giant that wasn't yet another good natured clumsy dumbass, and more like the NPCs. I mean, have they only interacted with good natured clumsy dumbasses?

I'd like to see a HG trooper that guarded a templar all day acted. Probably a horrifically scary and affecting PC to be in the presence of. And like I said earlier...If the PC HGs staffed the gates, noone would ever die from bringing spice inside.

[Marauder Moe]

Clearsighted, I'm not sure why you're so quick to equate Zalanthan stereotypes with real-world ones.  A black person and a Swedish person are both human.  Dwarves are not human, and while they aren't all drunks and braggarts, they ALL have a singular focus in life that dominates their thoughts.  Not all elves are neccesarily smart enough to be devious but ALL elves have an urge to steal from those not of their clan.  Many of these stereotypes are biologically driven.  Dwarven, elven, half-elven, and half-giant brains are simply different from humans and it makes them act differently from humans.

Secondly, I think you need to read the half-giant documents more: http://www.armageddon.org/rp/racial/halfgiantsocial.html

The "kindness and curiousity" section was only the last paragraph, hardly overwhelming aspects of the half-giant psyche.


Otherwise, however, I agree that I've seen some poorly-played half-giants that overuse the Tarzanese and the blank stare.  I've seen just as many good ones, though, with some actual personality.  The problem is that most Zalanthan characters probably consider half-giants to be near-mindless animals, sort of like muls.  They wouldn't see the point in really interacting with one and learning about him/her as an individual.  I'm not saying that needs to change, I'm just saying that it's a cultural aspect that would magnify this perceived problem of half-giant personality.

[Clearsighted]

Marauder Moe,

I just find it difficult to believe that humans have more distinguishing stereotypes in different regions or nations, let alone races (such as black, caucasian, african)

But a *really* different race, such as elves or dwarves or even high-giants are suddenly pigeon-holed into a single subset of behavior described in one paragraph.

It'd be like aliens seeing movies of earth from the 1950s and assuming all Americans (or even all men) were like John Wayne...even though he embodied virtues that many red blooded American males wanted to emulate. Or that all Americans are like New Englanders.

In fact, I made an earlier post in this thread dealing with the HG docs. Where on earth did half-giants, the ultimate cultural parasite, pick up on kindness in Zalanthas as a deeply embedded, seemingly genetic trait?

[Marauder Moe]

Did you read the link in my post?

[LoD]

In fact, I made an earlier post in this thread dealing with the HG docs. Where on earth did half-giants, the ultimate cultural parasite, pick up on kindness in Zalanthas as a deeply embedded, seemingly genetic trait?

It may very well be because half-giants wouldn't be inherently driven by many of the complex emotions that beget violence; greed, corruption, lust, envy, and jealousy.  Their curious natures and seemingly benign indifference to personal gain (for lack of knowing what they should want) is probably perceived as kindness.

Half-giants would be very interested in what someone was doing.  They'd probably be fascinated by some of the most mundane or normal things simply because they'd have no idea of how to do it themselves.  And in their desire to learn, to immiate, to observe, they might be considered kind creatures because their motivations are different than almost every other creature found in-game.  They aren't driven by the need to conquer lands, deffeat political foes, hone their blade, dominate a financial market, exact revenge against an enemy tribe, or any of the things which generally cause friction.

Their interactions with people would most often be one of fascinated discovery, and so it's easy to see why they might be considered kind.  They'd probably seem helpful, attentive, non-threatening, and unassuming in their efforts to observe and immitate someone.  So I can see where such a trait might grow to be called kindness.

-LoD

[bloodfromstone]

As an aside, I always thought it was hilarious to see a templar with two half-giant guards. The NPCs should have a random chance of unhitching themselves, subduing random people, and ceasing their guard on the templar.

[Clearsighted]

Did you read the link in my post?

Yes. I. Did.

It was the basic idiom of how the race is structured in the doc that I was taking issue with in the first place. I'm not sure how kindness (no matter how it is perceived or explained) is so ingrained, when they supposedly pick up emotions and attitudes very easily. What separates the appearance of kindness as to make it the quintiessential Giant virtue? Supposedly it is to get rewards. Fine. I think it is just one more cog in the comic relief archetype.

But it's fine that it is. That's the race. It was an offhanded musing to begin with. I would have thought that 'low intelligence' creatures would be more inclined towards abject loyalty to those who could master them, violent gratification, routine and cruelty.

It's just one sort've gets tired of yet another 'good natured oaf'. Though I'm well aware, some do transcend this. Or some do it very well. It just all starts to run together eventually.

[Marauder Moe]

Did you read the link in my post?

Yes. I. Did.

I remain skeptical.

It was the basic idiom of how the race is structured in the doc that I was taking issue with in the first place. I'm not sure how kindness (no matter how it is perceived or explained) is so ingrained, when they supposedly pick up emotions and attitudes very easily.

This is incorrect.  Half-giants don't pick up emotions and attitudes easily, if at all.  They pick up behaviors.

What separates the appearance of kindness as to make it the quintiessential Giant virtue? Supposedly it is to get rewards. Fine. I think it is just one more cog in the comic relief archetype.

The reason I doubt you actually read the Half-giant section of the Racial Roleplay docs is that if you did, you'd know that it clarifies kindness to be  simply a lack of malice combined with responsiveness to immediate rewards and an imitative nature.  Half-giants are considered good-natured because they aren't smart enough to be ill-natured.  They don't know how to take advantage of someone, they're usually terrible at lying, probably utterly incapable of (purposeful) social manipulation, and the pain of others isn't usually gratifying on a basic emotional level.

[Twilight]

The docs are the docs.  They provide the framework we play within, obviously.  The nature of half-giants is not going to change because someone disagrees with it.

In which case, Rping with them becomes charity.

Having played a few half giants long ago, I can say this was at one point a problem.  Can't say if it still is, I haven't interacted with HG's much lately.  But people would ignore half-giants.  Even when spoken to directly.

I found this to show a clear lack of understanding.  I can remember one instance of someone completely ignoring my half-giant, even after getting asked several direct questions.  Pointedly ignoring my half-giant, even as he got increasingly and obviously upset.

Which brings me to the safety net most people rely on when interacting with half-giants.  The crim code.  I think a lot of people don't regard half-giants (or muls for that matter), with the proper amount of fear they really should, and the respect for just what they can do to you.

Its funny how his attitude changed once he was subdued.  Could it have been because of the bad position codedly he was now in?  Could it be because the crim code was suddenly not protecting him anymore?  My perception of the half-giant kindness is that it is partly there to protect other players, stranglely enough.  Mad half-giants are scary.

[Clearsighted]

Did you read the link in my post?

Yes. I. Did.

I remain skeptical.

It was the basic idiom of how the race is structured in the doc that I was taking issue with in the first place. I'm not sure how kindness (no matter how it is perceived or explained) is so ingrained, when they supposedly pick up emotions and attitudes very easily.

This is incorrect.  Half-giants don't pick up emotions and attitudes easily, if at all.  They pick up behaviors.

What separates the appearance of kindness as to make it the quintiessential Giant virtue? Supposedly it is to get rewards. Fine. I think it is just one more cog in the comic relief archetype.

The reason I doubt you actually read the Half-giant section of the Racial Roleplay docs is that if you did, you'd know that it clarifies kindness to be  simply a lack of malice combined with responsiveness to immediate rewards and an imitative nature.  Half-giants are considered good-natured because they aren't smart enough to be ill-natured.  They don't know how to take advantage of someone, they're usually terrible at lying, probably utterly incapable of (purposeful) social manipulation, and the pain of others isn't usually gratifying on a basic emotional level.

Have *you* even read my posts in their entirety? That might be a good start before calling me a liar.

If you're so intent on assuming the worst fantasy about my motives and arguments to launch into your own rebuttal, than by all means, have at it. But I would prefer it if you actually respond to what I wrote.

I realize what's in the docs. I was simply disagreeing with the docs in an offhanded manner. It's following the docs that tends to encourage the stereotypical behavior...And since when does emotion or attitude not significantly impact behavior?

I don't like the way docs portray the half-giants, and I don't care much about the reasoning behind it since the end result is the same. I've repeated this three times now. Do you understand? If I hadn't read the docs, I couldn't be disagreeing with them. I suppose I wouldn't be as bothered if more people used them as the foundation of their character and not the entirety of it.

The reason I doubt you've read my posts is because I specifically referred to what you just went on about.

It was a personal opinion on the docs. Not claiming it was from the docs. Or should replace the docs. I simply think half-giants would have more realistically evolved as more brutish, cruel, routine-oriented and loyal. Not as flippant, happy-go-lucky good natured oafs whom are like 12 feet tall turn of the century Iowan farmboys with a learning disability.

[LoD]

I don't like the way docs portray the half-giants...

That's understandable, and certainly this is an appropriate forum for discussion.

...and I don't care much about the reasoning behind it since the end result is the same.

However, this clearly indicates that you are not here to have a discussion, but to make a statement.  If you are not willing to even consider a different point of view, then the only applicable response to your post is, "Noted."

And to address a previous point, half-giants could very well assume behaviors without their corresponding attitudes or emotions because of their lack of comprehension.  For example:

Code Select Expand

The slender, green-eyed elf bumps into the stooped, beady-eyed man, lifting one hand in apology before pressing through the crowd.

The stooped, beady-eyed man narrows his gaze, nostrils flaring in a short snort of disgust toward a slender, green-eyed elf.

Bitter distaste in his tone, the stooped, beady-eyed man says, in sirhish:
  "Damned slant...."

The branded, crimson skinned half-giant glances from the stooped, beady-eyed man to a slender, green-eyed elf, narrowing his eyes into thin slits and blowing air through his nose.

Two days later, our giant runs into someone else:

Code Select Expand

The burly, barrel chested man nudges a few patrons as he pushes off the bar and moves to the street.

Narrowing his eyes, the branded, crimson skinned half-giant says, in sirihish:
   "Damned slant..."

He doesn't know what slant means, nor that it was said out of distaste for one of the elven community because the "friend" likely thought they were trying to steal from them.  None of that attitude or emotion was applicable in this situation, the giant merely connected the bumping action and the gesture/phrasing to be relevant.

He may very well to go on to repeat that phrase and gesture in situations that have no connection whatsoever with the first encounter.  They aren't assuming the attitudes or emotions behind the behavior, only the superficial actions and speech.  They might connect a certain phrase with a certain race, but my guess is that unless they've been personally hurt by an experience (i.e. stolen from by an elf) they wouldn't understand why they were saying it.

-LoD

[Marauder Moe]

Have *you* even read my posts in their entirety? That might be a good start before calling me a liar.

I didn't call you a liar.  I had wondered, though, if perhaps you simply read one part of the half-giant docs and then assumed that there were no other parts to it.  That was the source of my doubt.

If you're so intent on assuming the worst fantasy about my motives and arguments to launch into your own rebuttal, than by all means, have at it. But I would prefer it if you actually respond to what I wrote.

I realize what's in the docs. I was simply disagreeing with the docs in an offhanded manner. It's following the docs that tends to encourage the stereotypical behavior...And since when does emotion or attitude not significantly impact behavior?

One, there's nothing wrong with roleplaying stereotypical behavior in Armageddon.  The Earth assumption is that when something is called a stereotype, it's usually a falsehood based on prejudice.  Zalanthas isn't Earth, though.  Stereotypes in the docs are based on fact, not prejudice.    The racial stereotypes are in for a reason: Arm's non-human races are NOT supposed to be played like humans.

Two, of course emotion and attitude impact behavior.  However, half-giants can't see emotion or attitude.  All they see is behavior, and they all try to immitate what they see.  They don't know why people do what they do, nor do they care.  They just have a desire to do the same things people they know do.

I don't like the way docs portray the half-giants, and I don't care much about the reasoning behind it since the end result is the same. I've repeated this three times now. Do you understand? If I hadn't read the docs, I couldn't be disagreeing with them.

Nonsense.  I've seen plenty of people disagree with things they know nothing about.

I suppose I wouldn't be as bothered if more people used them as the foundation of their character and not the entirety of it.

How many half-giant characters have you played with, anyway?  Just the one who's player you got into an argument with?

The reason I doubt you've read my posts is because I specifically referred to what you just went on about.

Except you seem to be arguing that it's ridiculous that kindness and curiousity are the dominant traits of half-giants.  The doc don't say that, though.  Kindness and curiosity are a small section at the very bottom of the Half-giant Soclial Plight document.  The dominant traits are stupidity and immitation.

It was a personal opinion on the docs. Not claiming it was from the docs. Or should replace the docs. I simply think half-giants would have more realistically evolved as more brutish, cruel, routine-oriented and loyal. Not as flippant, happy-go-lucky good natured oafs whom are like 12 feet tall turn of the century Iowan farmboys with a learning disability.

Half-giants didn't evolve.  They were created.  Obviously they weren't created perfectly, but the current species is probably the best that their creators ever managed to breed.  If you dislike part of the Armageddon game setting, that's fine.  I dislike some parts of it too.  That point isn't even close to what this thread started as, though.

[Beux]

I just wanted to say...I've met a handful of HG's in my 6 months at Arm. But I did meet one very special HG. He was still very much within the limits of HG rp. He was strong, and he was rather stupid, but he was, well, down right amazing.

Every second I spent Rp'ing with him was captivating, it wasn't just that he was a great Rp'er, but also that this particular HG had a great deal of depth. HG's -can- be awesome characters, I guess they just work better for some players eh.

[Reiloth]

LoD...You're brilliant, (And I don't mean that sarcastically at ALL) if I had the opportunity, I would make clones of you so that about ten of you could play HG's on Arm, because seriously, you have it just right.

you're on the level, because I agree with every point of view you have on Half-Giants, I won't even go into it, I just wish that the rest of the populace could be on that level as well.

Reading over the Roleplay suggestion link, blah blah, I read the whole thing and the first thing that popped into my mind was...Every half giant I meet plays the opposite of this archetype, and its that OPPOSITE ARCHETYPE THAT PISSES ME OFF.

so please. to reiterate.

If you're playing a half-giant.

http://www.armageddon.org/rp/racial/halfgiantsocial.html

thank you in advance.