Defense Nerfed

[X-D]

I'm not reading through this whole thread, I read what the staff said about the change and in essence now, instead of skill the outcome of a battle is now MOSTLY dependant on luck. The Die roll as it where. This how I see the explanation and how it works in practice.

Gee, thanks guys for turning the combat in this mud into D&D first ED. rules.

And to anybody who says otherwise. Tell me that when you watch a 15+day warrior with high strength and agi, max or near max shield use and parry get beaten by a 1 day warrior.

Like I've posted before, Put the bug back, call it a feature. That or raise the skill maxes to shield and parry. Its truly silly to think a veteran warrior could get his ass handed to him by a 1 day assassin in straight melee, but it is possible now.

Maybe change the help files for warrior as well.

Warriors are the easiest persons to employ. They are invaluable as guards, soldiers, mercenaries, military advisors, outriders, scouts, gladiators, or even as assassins and spies. No other guild can match a warrior's combat prowess, and thus all warriors are much needed parts of any clan or mercantile operation.

Should read

Any guild that knows which end of a weapon is the sharp end can match a warrior's combat prowess so don't bother with this guild since you will get more fun skills with any other.

(edit)
LoD has the right of it from an RP perspective.

5. Chances are, Mister Baddass Sergeant will still be able to kick Mr 2 hour newbie recruit's ass without taking a hit.

6. The warrior class has regained definition. Why play a warrior when a ten day ranger will very likely be just as tough as you at 8 days, with the added benefit of archery?

Wrong, it actually now goes the other way, the decrease in skill with nothing else to offset it adds an increase to luck.

So, the warrior class loses definition, why play one when luck is a major deciding factor in combat?

And I've seen mr 2 hour newbie hit the badass sarge, he got hit much more of course but thats not the point.

[najdorf]

i dont think warriors are weak now, they have disarm + bash, which are much more dangerous skills at the moment than before.

[jstorrie]

You're throwing out way too much hyperbole, X-D. That a newb can lay a glancing blow on his sergeant doesn't mean that he's a match for him in any way. The sergeant still wins.

[ThirdEye]

The majority of players don't like this change so I reckon there will be an update soon.

[Dalmeth]

The majority of players don't like this change so I reckon there will be an update soon.

I certainly hope not.  I like things the way they are.  Gives people more reason to hunt together, even old veteran hunters.

[ThirdEye]

The majority of players don't like this change so I reckon there will be an update soon.

I certainly hope not.  I like things the way they are.  Gives people more reason to hunt together, even old veteran hunters.

Yeah, I don't have a problem with the change. Shit, I could be totally wrong, might end up being one of those things we just get used to.

[X-D]

Actually, either my PC is improving fast or the staff is hard at work tweaking. Things seem to have smoothed out in many areas.

[Quirk]

I'm not reading through this whole thread, I read what the staff said about the change and in essence now, instead of skill the outcome of a battle is now MOSTLY dependant on luck. The Die roll as it where. This how I see the explanation and how it works in practice.

Defences are low at the moment, and offences may be high. As they improve, some of the issues you're seeing currently should sort themselves out.

However, battles now depend more on skill than before - I'll explain how.

Morgenes mentioned that before, anyone and everyone got a chance to parry, whether they had the skill or not. This went for newbies and guilds that didn't get parry as well as people who'd branched it. Now, only people with the parry skill will get a chance to parry. Now, I'm not sure whether this new change will alter the behaviour of combat. In the past, it often seemed that only a very good fighter could land a blow at all on another very good fighter. If this is accurate, and is still the case with the new parry check, then as fighters progress they'll again become effectively immune to those with weaker offences - but those with weaker offences who haven't got parry and aren't using a shield won't have much by the way of defence to stop the powerful fighter hitting them every turn.

A top warrior might take a hit slightly more often than they did even once their skill with the new parry check's advanced to a high level; I don't know. However the number of hits they'll land on weaker opposition should climb even higher, and the new daze code should further reduce their opponent's chance of getting a strike in back.

It's sad though understandable that there's to be no reimbursement, but I don't think anyone will complain much about this in a year's time.

[spawnloser]

The majority of players don't like this change so I reckon there will be an update soon.

Majority?  Hardly.  Oh, and just because people bitch, you think the staff is going to hop to?

[jhunter]

The majority of players don't like this change so I reckon there will be an update soon.

Majority?  Hardly.  Oh, and just because people bitch, you think the staff is going to hop to?

Actually -most- people I've spoken with are unhappy with the changes to the combat system over all. They just do not want to speak up for fear of making themselves a target of a disgruntled staff member or player who disagrees. I'm not saying it's a valid fear, but that's what I've gathered when I've asked why they do not speak up on the matter.

[spawnloser]

Well, if people don't speak up, their concerns are not heard...and it is their own damn faults, first thing.

Second, just because people don't like it means the staff should undo a bug fix, take out daze code or take away the stamina drains on combat skills?  Nah, I know plenty of people that are fine with these changes...and the staff have had members state that the staff is generally happy with these changes too.  I don't think a NON-vocal minority is going to get anything changed.

[Dalmeth]

They just do not want to speak up for fear of making themselves a target of a disgruntled staff member or player who disagrees.

That's funny!  It really is!  This board has rarely if ever been much for persecution.  Never have I seen it come from the staff.  More likely, all they have to say is. "I don't like it," and you've elaborated on more than enough reasons to support that already.

Still, the people you've talked to almost certainly represent a tiny fraction of the playerbase.  I still love this change.

[jhunter]

They just do not want to speak up for fear of making themselves a target of a disgruntled staff member or player who disagrees.

That's funny!  It really is!  This board has rarely if ever been much for persecution.  Never have I seen it come from the staff.  More likely, all they have to say is. "I don't like it," and you've elaborated on more than enough reasons to support that already.

Still, the people you've talked to almost certainly represent a tiny fraction of the playerbase.  I still love this change.

Who said anything about on the board? I didn't. And quit being a jackass, Dalmeth. As I said, I don't necessarily agree that they are valid fears but they are the fears of those people anyway. Some of the reasons I have mentioned are the same reasons they mentioned to me. So stop making assumptions and just plain being a jerk. The crap I'm getting right now about it makes their fears more believable to me now.

[jhunter]

Well, if people don't speak up, their concerns are not heard...and it is their own damn faults, first thing.

Second, just because people don't like it means the staff should undo a bug fix, take out daze code or take away the stamina drains on combat skills?  Nah, I know plenty of people that are fine with these changes...and the staff have had members state that the staff is generally happy with these changes too.  I don't think a NON-vocal minority is going to get anything changed.

It doesn't mean that one's attitude should be: "Well, I won't get anything changed anyway so I may as well not even say or do anything about it." *sigh*

Oh look...my tail fell off again...oh well...no sense in putting it back on, it will probably just fall off again anyway.
:roll:

[spawnloser]

I never said that one's attitude should be that.  I'm just saying that if you don't complain, don't expect the staff to know how many people dislike it.

I also said that in this specific instance, don't expect the staff to change because of complaints.  This has been a discussion about defense being nerfed...a discussion about the BUG FIX that caused this so-called condition.  Oh, they fixed a bug (not made a change) meaning that it'll take some actual work to become bad-ass?  I, and many others, say to this: "Good!  Finally!"

[jhunter]

I never said that one's attitude should be that.  I'm just saying that if you don't complain, don't expect the staff to know how many people dislike it.

I also said that in this specific instance, don't expect the staff to change because of complaints.  This has been a discussion about defense being nerfed...a discussion about the BUG FIX that caused this so-called condition.  Oh, they fixed a bug (not made a change) meaning that it'll take some actual work to become bad-ass?  I, and many others, say to this: "Good!  Finally!"

Oh, I don't give a crap about this fix really. I'm just talking about the changes to the combat system as a whole. This just happened to coincide with more changes to the combat system.

[Morfeus]

You know, people who are happy with the change usually don't bother to post.

I like the change myself.

[Dakkon Black]

I hope I like the change. I like the idea of the big boys dazing you a bit, but I never found fighting a huge animal to be that easy in the first place. It sorta seems like this whole daze thing comes down off a few pc's out there who were fantasy solo'ing against mek's or something.

The truth is, even that I don't mind, if they got their char to the skill that they could kill a mek alone, I think that's freaking awesome. I want hero's in the game, I want to see other people walk in the room and shudder thinking, there's a legend. Not sure I want to live in a crafter heaven.

[Uberskaapie]

You know, people who are happy with the change usually don't bother to post.

I like the change myself.

Agreed, and me too. (despite the fact that I've died recently to things I used to own) If you're talking about the silent masses, I'd believe they're in favor of the change, otherwise they'd jump at the chance to voice their frustration.

[Halaster]

You could settle the debate as to what "most" players feel in regards to the changes by starting a poll, I suppose.  Not that it will much influence our decisions, but for the sake of who's right, spawnloser or jhunter, heh.

[jhunter]

You could settle the debate as to what "most" players feel in regards to the changes by starting a poll, I suppose.  Not that it will much influence our decisions, but for the sake of who's right, spawnloser or jhunter, heh.

I considered it. The problem is that too many people use alternate accounts to skew the results of such polls. Polls don't really mean jack shit because of that.

[jmordetsky]

new change = poop.

[Halaster]

I think everything's been said.