When the emotive art goes bad...

[Vesperas]

Occassionally, I will find that one player who absolutely loves to emote.

You know... the one that somehow manages to consistantly throw out three-or-more-line emotes, one after another, about the most mundane of actions (sitting, smiling, blinking).

I don't know how the rest of the playerbase feels about this, but after a while, this just gets annoying.  Don't get me wrong, I LOVE and ENCOURAGE the use of emote whenever possible -- in fact, I'd be fairly insulted if someone just tried to use the code on or around me with no regard to scenery, situation, or audience.  

But even I begin to lose my patience trying to read a paragraph describing how someone's eyes glitter in the lightning-fast pulsation of light from the fluctuating atomic activity of Zalanthas' burning sun-star.

Over and over.


Does anyone think it would ever be appropriate to ask another player to 'tone it down'?

I love being totally immersed in my surroundings, but sometimes excessiveness actually hurts it.

[EonBlueApocalypse]

It's a bit much to discourage emoting.  Rather, why not encourage using semote/hemote for like ...  blinking?

[Hymwen]

While I'd never actually ask them to stop, I can get annyed when a player continually emotes just to emote. Especially if it's in already spammy settings, such as a full tavern or an RPT.

[Rhyden]

I remember this one player who emoted 3-line emoted -every- single emote, say, tell, talk, whisper or shout they ever made. I mean, it's ok sometimes, but when I'm seeing paragraph after paragraph, I just stop reading, and it starts to get a bit jarring.

[Xygax]

Don't go ooc to complain about the other player's emoting.  Feel free to use the request tool to provide them with feedback, however.

For myself, the wordy emotes are only irritating if I'm dependant on that other person for something to happen, and in addition to being wordy, they don't type fast.

If the long emotes that aren't bottlenecking you are still bothering you, try reading them for mistakes.  I always find it fun watching to see if people will smile and frown in the same emote, for example.

-- X

[EonBlueApocalypse]

There's a line between immersing yourself into your character and contributing to everyone elses experience.  I think most people know to tone it down when things get busy, and I really don't mind if someone emotes alot in a smaller group or a private session.

I think if they don't know this, they can read this thread and find out.  Good lookin' out, OP.

[Briarfox]

It's a bit much to discourage emoting.  Rather, why not encourage using semote/hemote for like ...  blinking?

I have to agree. That is a positive approach and likely to be taken into consideration more readily then being asked to 'tone it down' which could hurt someone's feelings.

[ale six]

I personally like to save the long emotes for and see them in the serious RP scenes (and mudsex).

Otherwise, I'm just as happy if someone tosses out a one or two-liner if they can keep pace with things. It's funny when somebody throws a huge whale of an emote... five actions too late.

[KingOfSpades]

I like the emotes that use all the new words the kid learned from his 11th grade vocabulary book. I seriously think some people search for the most rare and uinque word to express stupid things....

Bombastic or verbose....

I once died looking up a word from dictionary.com. Turned out the word I was looking up was another word for the word "attack".

Only time I pull off a million emotes per hour is if I am in a tavern full of people who are idle. THen I like the use lots of the virtual enviornment to get the idlers in the 'mood'.

[Vesperas]

I once had the urge to try and engage one of these folks in an emote battle.
Sadly, I knew I would lose.

[rishenko]

Oh hell no.    The length of an emote and the overuse of command emotes is highly subjective.  Everybody has a different idea of length and what is acceptable, and to me a lot of it depends on how fast the typist is.  If they can pull off a Robert Jordan emote in ten seconds flat, power to 'em!  Otherwise, stick to Hemingway.  Remember, one man's squirt of a McDonald's mustard packet is another man's Grey Poupon.

[Briarfox]

Remember, one man's squirt of a McDonald's mustard packet is another man's Grey Poupon.

:shock:

LOL! I have to agree. Everyone is different, I know it can be tiresome to read a 'book' emote sometimes, but it is unfair to try and limit people to your preferences. I personally -love- to see emoting, even alot of it, it is far better then the alternative of no emoting at all.

[EonBlueApocalypse]

I disagree with this, Rishenko.  Consider that people have to read these, too.  And keep up.  It depends on the environment, and sometimes too much takes away from your contribution.

[rishenko]

I disagree with this, Rishenko.  Consider that people have to read these, too.  And keep up.  It depends on the environment, and sometimes too much takes away from your contribution.

Well, hopefully people are using at least a little common sense.  Just because you're a court reporter doesn't mean you need to flaunt it.

[LauraMars]

I don't mind long emotes.  I don't mind short emotes.  I do mind people who use the same emote for every talk or say, but I'm not going to start a thread whining about it.

People are emoting.  This is good, because in a text game, you must learn to read.  Live and let live.

Rock on.

[MarshallStaxx]

I'd love it if someone coded a plug-in for my mud client that linked all my emotes to Thesaurus.com.
Then I could come up with some colourful words rather than my rather limited pallete.

[Ghost]

I don't mind long emotes, or short emotes.  All I want is to get an idea how the other PC is responding and how fast.  Usually, the players I see are good in that sense.

Once in a life time, I get to meet someone writing a long emote and taking like 2-5 minutes for each say/talk/emote and what not.  That nearly drives me crazy.  And I usually cut it to the chase and leave (if I can) the person there if that happens.

[moab]

I think emoting is the life blood of the game.
When I find someone who likes to emote two or three lines to describe something then I feel I'm experiencing the game at its finest.

If emoting bothered me I would go play WOW or something.

I'm here because people are smart, like to think about things and like to describe what they are doing.

Personally, it annoys me when someone uses only code _most_ of the time.

I think it's ironical that someone (anyone) would complain about reading text on a text-only game.

LOL.

[moab]

I don't mind long emotes.  I don't mind short emotes.  I do mind people who use the same emote for every talk or say, but I'm not going to start a thread whining about it.

People are emoting.  This is good, because in a text game, you must learn to read.  Live and let live.

Rock on.

btw, I love Laura Mars.

[EonBlueApocalypse]

I don't think anyone is saying that we don't like to read.  

I think the point was that, if you are capable of typing very fast and the room is crowded, then some people can take away from the RP.  I have been guilty of this in the past, being a fairly fast writer and typer.  Eventually, I learned that it was just as important to 'share the stage' with my fellow players when the game becomes fast-paced.

[Pantoufle]

Call me silly but I don't like playing when the PC count of a room goes past 4.  This is because it becomes to spammy and difficult to focus on who is who for me, let alone focus on my own character.  I like to imagine the world around me as though I were in a storybook.  When I can no longer do that, my enjoyment goes down the drain and I feel like logging out.

I like to emote as much as I can and I like to be as descriptive as possible.  I also prefer to interact around players who do the same (rather than those who are always "nodding simply").  Having said that, I have a personal pet peeve of making emotes longer than 2 lines.  I don't mind reading it from others, but I just hate doing it myself.  I don't even know why, I think it just looks awkward without the formating possible on a MUSH.  In instances such as this, I simply emote twice.  But I try to make my greatest focus emoting descriptively yet with brevity.  It really is an art form and as I've suggested in Sanvean's post about obscure keywords, it's one of those things where if someone tries and fails at least they are trying.  Furthermore, I actually don't mind waiting for someone to type out a descriptive emote as long as it's not an ungodly amount of time.  It actually gives me something to look forward to (assuming they know what they're doing).

The trick to descriptive but short emotes is knowing when to clip certain words.  It's not necessary to use the ~item in every single emote.  Sometimes you can just emote 'his sword' or 'the table', instead of reminding us for the umpteenth time that the table is smooth and polished, made of marble, etc -- especially since that may not even be the focus of what your emote is trying to say.  I've also even used phrases such as "nodding to his table companions" instead of using "nodding to ~man and ~woman simultaneously."  Everyone knows who I am nodding to, so why flood the emote with their keyword when you can, instead, focus on HOW you nodding.  Are you nodding brusquely?  Emphatically?  Indifferently?  And so on.

[LauraMars]

Addendum: For the most part, I find that stressful spam is not emotes, it is Doing Stuff.

Peak hours in Ye Merry Taverne, and my screen ain't scrolling at 60 mph cause we're all describing what we're doing with eloquence and grace.  We're standing, sitting, getting, putting, leaving, entering, and sometimes we're killing (combat!) We've also got the nodding, smiling grinners at large, and it doesn't take much effort to type "nods" (it's so popular.)  The result being a mile long list of one line echoes to the room that just went up my screen like a speeding bullet.

So leave the long emoters alone.  It gives a visual break, and at least when they're typing those out they aren't getting 40 things from their backpack.

Much as I hate to go on about this, I suppose Pantoufle did have a point about brevity.  Exercise a little creativity.  No need to use the coded keyword for every object every time.

[Vynestra]

I agree with Laura. Long emoters in a tavern are actually better I think than a bunch of nods, smiles, stand up and sit downs. As long as people arent stringing together a bunch of different actions in their one long emote I am great with that style.

Good emoting is like good s3x: Slow at times, fast at other times, rough and raw, and deep and meaningful at other times.  Bad emoting is like bad s3x: sometimes you gag.

[LoD]

I don't know how the rest of the playerbase feels about this, but after a while, this just gets annoying.

I've only ever met one or two characters that emote in such a way, so I can't say that it's been a real problem for me in the many years that I've played the game.  Emoting is great.  Emoting to enhance and describe the atmosphere is even better.  Clegane is a great player for bringing the surrounding world alive in their emotes; a good example of someone who uses large words and fairly long sentences to create a profound statement with their character.

It might be helpful to consider what your emote is telling the people around you.

What happened?

The tall, muscular man trips.

Why did it happen?

The tall, muscular man trips over the chest.

How did it happen?

The tall, muscular man's right boot catches the lid of a plain baobab chest as he steps forward, causing him to tumble forward to the ground.

...and the Kitchen Sink

As the left calf muscle flexes tightly, the tall, muscular man steps forward with his right foot, the string of his dusty boot catching on a bone hook protruding from the plain baobab chest carelessly pulled away from the wall, pitching him forward to land roughly upon the stone floor of the crowded barracks.

There's certainly nothing wrong about the last emote, but the game happens at a pace where reading through lines of emoted text can be cumbersome if other actions are taking place.  For the same reason I mentioned on the "new text idea", I prefer blocks of text to be broken up over several steps for ease of reading.

Easier to Read

The tall, muscular man steps forward with his right foot, the string of his dusty boot catching on a bone hook protruding from a plain baobab chest.

Pitching forward to land roughly on the stone floor, the tall, muscular man mutters loudly to himself as he pulls himself to his feet, rubbing his knee.

Everyone has a different style, and I think that lengthy emotes are always better than no emotes at all.  However, the long "winded" emoters of the game may want to consider breaking down their movements into smaller, more readable actions.

-LoD

[jhunter]

The only gripe I have is, as LoD said, with a couple of people I have interacted with in the past who go way too far with their emoting. These are the same people, as someone earlier said, who keep you waiting far too long for responses.

I have only encountered two people that I felt went to the point of it becoming annoying.

[rishenko]

Easier to Read

The tall, muscular man steps forward with his right foot, the string of his dusty boot catching on a bone hook protruding from a plain baobab chest.

That was beautiful LoD.  The above is my standard way of emoting.  I haven't had anybody, from what I have seen, become frustrated with my style.  The only problem I have is getting too into the scene and mistyping the keyword (i.e. ~chset instead of ~chest).  So I then begin typing the next command, overwriting what I had typed before and am then forced to copy and paste what was echoed to my client, make the necessary adjustments and then spew it out again.  If I have two keywords off, I repeat the process.  That tacks on extra seconds that the other person is forced to wait through.

[flurry]

Yeah, I think it comes down to the fact that different people have different styles, and also different tastes in what they like to see from fellow players.

There isn't a right way to do it, and no one is going to please everyone.

Does anyone think it would ever be appropriate to ask another player to 'tone it down'?

I don't think so.  Just as it wouldn't be appropriate to ask someone to flesh their emotes out more.  

The suggested idea to use the player feedback form sounds like a better approach.

I can only think of one time when an emoting style became really frustrating to me.  I had a character trying to get a job and the other player was taking such a long time with entering their very long emotes.  It just took so long for the scene to progress anywhere at all, but it was only that one time.   And that was years ago now.

[moab]

I don't even think that "Feedback" is reasonable for someone who emotes too much (whatever that means).

Feedback good for helping people figure out they need to emote something, but otherwise, what the hell - at least the player is making the effort.

Even in regard to the feedback tool - how to use it?  I recently saw someone go this:  e;e;e;n;n;open door;close door;n;e;n;draw sword;kill dummy;
<watching for about five minutes of no emote combat with a dummy and no additional attacks other than with sword>

Do I send feedback on his short desc?  

Ah, when I see stuff like that I just usually wish all He, the so-and-so dude needs to learn to emote.

Dunno if that's appropriate either, but how do I target a pc when I don't know his name for the feedback tool?

[Hymwen]

I'm fairly certain that you can use the sdesc. Since there can technically be two or more people with the same sdesc, include his/her clan, since it seems like you're in the same one. "The tall, short man of clan Knights of the Brown Ring" would work.

[bloodfromstone]

While I don't think we should go about policing each other, I definitely think it is a consideration issue. LoD's post showed a very, very good example of how to do it well, so long as you are a fast enough typist to pull it off before twelve people inform you that your shoe is caught. Personally, I like simple, but descriptive emotes. I'm not the best at it, but I do try.

I have only seen a couple of PCs with emoting styles that drove me up the wall. I've only been in a situation to interact with one for an extended period of time. The emotes were huge, contained giant, sometimes glaringly misused or subjective words. It was very annoying, but, I will say on behalf of that player, that I know s/he was just trying their best to be descriptive and interesting, and s/he was a fast enough typist that I didn't have to sit and wait for five minutes for a strangely worded nod.

I think, when you're put in a situation like this, it is important to try to see from the other player's eyes. For a while, this drove me batshit crazy, but, as I said, I realized they were just doing their best. Personally, I think it is bad writing, plain and simple. Well, not everyone is a good writer. Generally, unnecessary wording and such is telltale of bad writing trying to be good writing, and I appreciate everyone's efforts to add to the game. And, hey, underneath the emoting style that I was focusing on for so long was a pretty damn good roleplayer with an interesting character. Go figure.

[Hymwen]

Code Select Expand

After hesitating for a moment, a look of uncertainty on her features, the tall, short woman tilts her head forward in solemn agreement, the skin of her neck creasing and revealing soft wrinkles as she holds her head bowed for a few seconds, the soft Nekrete wind stirring her silver-silken hair before she rises her head again.

An example of where I think it's too much, especially if the emoter has kept a group of people waiting for 5 minutes while typing.

[Sanvean]

I agree that it's way too long and involved, but also that this is something that's up to the player rather than something I'd want to see policed.  Hopefully we all learn from watching each other and reading discussions like this one.

[moab]

I think that we see less of Hymwen's example than we see of no emoting.
If we're going to focus on "correcting" emotes, I would rather we focus on those who don't over those who do too much.

[Hymwen]

I think that we see less of Hymwen's example than we see of no emoting.
If we're going to focus on "correcting" emotes, I would rather we focus on those who don't over those who do too much.

True, but that's not the topic

[naatok]

Naatok the Naughty Monkey sez:

If you don't like a character's emote or lack thereof.....

KILL THEM!!!   :twisted:

But seriously, I have to agree and hope that these sorts of threads (threats?  naaah!  *cackle*) will help to guide people in a more easygoing style of emoting.  Although overly 'flourishing' emotes can be annoying, I like to remind myself 'Hey!  At least they're bringing a character to some semblance of life!'

I find it is often better to give two or three emotes back to back if you're trying to show a certain level of detail (I do so only when I feel it is necessary to fully portray a gesture, series of gestures, mood or series of moods that happen over time, but a few seconds rather than moments).

Ugh, that was long-winded.  Whew!

I hope that makes sense.  It doesn't to me, but then again, I'm easily confused.  Or....is that amused?  Hmmmmn.

:lol:

[Cuusardo]

The only thing that really bothers me (aside from using superobscure words, or just flat out making up words) is when it takes five emotes that length to do a simple thing, such as walking down a flight of stairs.

Unless, of course, you get attacked a few times on your way down the staircase, and have to stop each time to defend yourself...

[EonBlueApocalypse]

Ahhh, for all this talk of brevity in emotes, and the lot of you can't use the same consideration in your posts.  Geez.   :wink:

[Vesperas]

This has just been another one of those special pet-peeves for me that justs sticks with me no matter what until I get it off my chest.  I don't think I would ever seriously try to go 'ooc d00d, stop that!'

I'm not trying to bring the players' roleplay quality into question (it was always wonderful) or complain about text on a text game.  I just really wanted to bring up something for consideration.

It's just plain difficult reading through 20-30-word emotes trying to discern the action and targets over and over again if you are tired, momentarily distracted, or in a busy room.

But yeah, I've seen on two or three occurances, all on and with different PCs in different areas of the game, where I'd see emotes VERY similar to Hymwen's example thrown out for every single action to PC made.  Maybe this just gave me the impression that were a larger number of players doing it.

[Bebop]

People emote to explain their surroundings and environment in detail.  I think this opinion is being expressed from some OOC annoyance for whatever reason instead of appreciating the players that put forth the effort to emote each thing they do in detail so that people are aware of the person staring blankly and wearily or chattering and bantering eccentrically.  Technically sitting in this tavern you can see or someone can see every little thing the person does every time they adjust in their chair and gesture with their hand.

If you don't like reading emotes then perhaps this isn't the game for you?  But don't discourage other players from expressing themselves through part of the foundation of Armageddon.  Emoting doesn't equal RP but the game sure would be crappy without it.  I can't believe someone just made a thread condoning more simplified emotes.  Isn't that a step backwards?

BTW- If someone told me to tone it down, I would wish up about it, who are you to tell me how to emote I don't play Armageddon based on other player's preferences to how much, and how I should emote.  If you don't want to read the emotes don't read them or just don't play and be oblivious to that person's actions.

[spawnloser]

Bebop, noone has suggested to actually ooc to someone to tone down emotes.  However, there is such a thing as overly descriptive in a normal emote.  Some of that stuff should go into hemotes now, for example.

[flurry]

Bebop, noone has suggested to actually ooc to someone to tone down emotes.

But wasn't that the question in the original post?

[spawnloser]

Not exactly.  Vesperas asked if it would be okay to do so...and noone has said yes, have they?

[flurry]

No, I don't think anyone has.  I just thought that Bebop was responding to the original question.

[ThirdEye]

I still have big problems with hemote. I never can think of a way to use it succesfully, let alone remember it. Don't think I've used it once with my latest character.

[LoD]

If you don't like reading emotes then perhaps this isn't the game for you?  But don't discourage other players from expressing themselves through part of the foundation of Armageddon.  Emoting doesn't equal RP but the game sure would be crappy without it.  I can't believe someone just made a thread condoning more simplified emotes.  Isn't that a step backwards?

I don't now that anyone has suggested or condoned a decrease in the quality of emotes, but commented on the format.  You're taking a pretty personal response to this thread in suggesting that the people who don't enjoy four line emotes because they're cumbersome should find another game?

Quantity does not equal quality, and while the bulk of these small novellas scrolling across my screen are well written, the format is cumbersome in this environment.  Main descriptions, room descriptions, object descriptions are all static.  They aren't changing.  They don't describe something that is specific to you or your character.

Power emotes, however, might involve your character or your character's attention.  And while I don't think anyone is saying they are "bad RP", I think what is being asked for is some consideration to be given to the format of the emote.

Taking Hymwen's example:

Code Select Expand

After hesitating for a moment, a look of uncertainty on her features, the tall, short woman tilts her head forward in solemn agreement, the skin of her neck creasing and revealing soft wrinkles as she holds her head bowed for a few seconds, the soft Nekrete wind stirring her silver-silken hair before she rises her head again.

Might be better received as:

Code Select Expand

A look of uncertainy on fer features, the tall, short woman hesitates for a moment.

Code Select Expand

The tall, short woman tilts her head forward in solemn agreement, the skin of her neck creasing and revealing soft wrinkles as she holds her head bowed for a few seconds.

Code Select Expand

The soft Nekrete wind stirrs her silver-silken hair as the tall, short woman raises her head.

This breaks the actions up into pieces rather than one "power clump" of linked activities.  The format makes it easier to react to and interpret for the rest of the audience.  In this case, they might not have acted differently either way it was presented, but let's look at another example:

Code Select Expand

Thrusting his chair our sharply behind him, the swarthy, scarred man slaps a heavy palm to the top of his wooden table and rises with a furious expression, his slender hand closing about the smooth grip of his ivory-hilted bone longsword and sliding it free from its leather scabbard as he stalks through the crowd toward the short, broad-shouldered dwarf.

There are important and independant actions to be seen here:

:arrow: Rising from his table furiously.
:arrow: Drawing his sword.
:arrow: Stalking toward someone with apparently malicious intent.

Each of these might warrant a different reaction from the crowd (or individual), whom might like a chance to emote their reaction.  Taken as a block, however, the person emoting has removed the ability for those around them to react to any one part of the action.  They have to accept this entire chain of events as the sum total rather than the individual actions they represent.

-LoD

[moab]

After further thought I have to agree that shorter emotes are best in some situations.

For example with a group out on patrol (life-threatening situation) I would want the players to use short, concise emotes and would do so myself.

That said, leading said group, I would stop every few rooms and emote something two or three lines long about the weather, the kanks, the environment and my character's (or the groups) place in it.

I believe San said it once (awhile ago) that emotes are awesome when they are less about personal gratification (how beautiful your character is, how awesome your character is) and more about the environment - about the world.

I suppose doing this (while also communicating your character's state) consistently with one or two line emotes is far better than reams of self-masturbatory emoting.

[ShaiHulud]

Does anyone think it would ever be appropriate to ask another player to 'tone it down'?

Sure, but be prepared for a "kiss my ass"

[EonBlueApocalypse]

I still have big problems with hemote. I never can think of a way to use it succesfully, let alone remember it. Don't think I've used it once with my latest character.

I would use it for any action that is not going to draw attention to you from anyone that is not watching you (or just highly observant).  Anything from scratching your nose to a nervous twitch of your eye.  Anything you can think of that fits that criteria.

Krath bless hemote/semote.

[moab]

I dunno if scratching your nose is really hemote worthy.  I mean, if I happen to glance at you randomly, I should be able to see this.

H (idden) Emote is for when you wish to emote and it _wouldn't_ be seen by someone else because they are normally _unable_ to observe it.

At least that's my understanding of it.

I could be talking outta my butt here, 'cause I just got back from the company golf outing, drank many beers and have a huge sunburn on my face.

:-D

[spawnloser]

Examples of things I have done with semote and hemote.

-Semote, for use when someone can't see you
(while invisible and flying)
> sem floats along silently, gaze roaming the red sand about him.

> sem floats motionless in the air as his gaze tracks %figure path.

-Hemote, for when you are doing something subtle

> hem shivers at %templar approach.

> hem stays motionless except for a light tapping of one finger on the side of his leg during %lord speaking.

[EonBlueApocalypse]

The way watch interacts with semote/hemote should tell you everything about their appropriate usage.

For those that missed this:

Silent Emote     (Communication)

Silent emotes should only be used to express actions that are completely silent. They will only show to people who can see you, so if they are asleep, dying, or otherwise unable to see you, they will not get any indication you did something.

Hidden Emote     (Communication)

Hidden emotes should be used to represent subtle motions that wouldn't be obvious to the room you are in. Only those who are actively watching you, or who are very observant will notice these.

Like I said ...  for all the things that the crowded tavern isn't really going to notice unless they're very observant or actively watching you.

[moab]

* duly beaten into submission *

[EonBlueApocalypse]

* duly beaten into submission *

<3 moab

[Bebop]

If you don't like reading emotes then perhaps this isn't the game for you?  But don't discourage other players from expressing themselves through part of the foundation of Armageddon.  Emoting doesn't equal RP but the game sure would be crappy without it.  I can't believe someone just made a thread condoning more simplified emotes.  Isn't that a step backwards?

I don't now that anyone has suggested or condoned a decrease in the quality of emotes, but commented on the format.  You're taking a pretty personal response to this thread in suggesting that the people who don't enjoy four line emotes because they're cumbersome should find another game?

Quantity does not equal quality, and while the bulk of these small novellas scrolling across my screen are well written, the format is cumbersome in this environment.  Main descriptions, room descriptions, object descriptions are all static.  They aren't changing.  They don't describe something that is specific to you or your character.

Power emotes, however, might involve your character or your character's attention.  And while I don't think anyone is saying they are "bad RP", I think what is being asked for is some consideration to be given to the format of the emote.

Taking Hymwen's example:

Code Select Expand

After hesitating for a moment, a look of uncertainty on her features, the tall, short woman tilts her head forward in solemn agreement, the skin of her neck creasing and revealing soft wrinkles as she holds her head bowed for a few seconds, the soft Nekrete wind stirring her silver-silken hair before she rises her head again.

Might be better received as:

Code Select Expand

A look of uncertainy on fer features, the tall, short woman hesitates for a moment.

Code Select Expand

The tall, short woman tilts her head forward in solemn agreement, the skin of her neck creasing and revealing soft wrinkles as she holds her head bowed for a few seconds.

Code Select Expand

The soft Nekrete wind stirrs her silver-silken hair as the tall, short woman raises her head.

This breaks the actions up into pieces rather than one "power clump" of linked activities.  The format makes it easier to react to and interpret for the rest of the audience.  In this case, they might not have acted differently either way it was presented, but let's look at another example:

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Thrusting his chair our sharply behind him, the swarthy, scarred man slaps a heavy palm to the top of his wooden table and rises with a furious expression, his slender hand closing about the smooth grip of his ivory-hilted bone longsword and sliding it free from its leather scabbard as he stalks through the crowd toward the short, broad-shouldered dwarf.

There are important and independant actions to be seen here:

:arrow: Rising from his table furiously.
:arrow: Drawing his sword.
:arrow: Stalking toward someone with apparently malicious intent.

Each of these might warrant a different reaction from the crowd (or individual), whom might like a chance to emote their reaction.  Taken as a block, however, the person emoting has removed the ability for those around them to react to any one part of the action.  They have to accept this entire chain of events as the sum total rather than the individual actions they represent.

-LoD

So (and I'm not repsonding to just you LOD)

Basically we are just talking about breaking emotes down etc etc, some people emote different ways.  IF you were there you would see the folds of someones neck crease and pretty much everything else.  I don't think the real issue here is power emoting so much as people are complaining about what they read in a TEXT BASED RPG.

People should be able to be descriptive if they want their emotes to read like a 10 cents romance novel that's fine to me at least they're -trying.- A player shouldn't have to be  concerned about is this emote detrimental or not, I don't see any harm in elaboration.

Sure in things like HRPTs when there is to much going on it's okay to limit yourself but otherwise, who cares.  This person's original post wasn't about HRPTs it was just a general complaint.  And generally I'd just like to comment that emotes shouldn't be policed and this complaint is ridiculous.  Stop elaborating on your emotes in a text based game, I don't like to read!  Next it will be people don't emote enough I want to see more creativity.  That fact OOC that you are taken aback by an emote elaborating on small actions you WOULD be able to see every detail of doesn't mean that emote shouldn't be there.

[Vesperas]

Basically we are just talking about breaking emotes down etc etc, some people emote different ways.  IF you were there you would see the folds of someones neck crease and pretty much everything else.  I don't think the real issue here is power emoting so much as people are complaining about what they read in a TEXT BASED RPG.

The real issue here IS power emoting.

I have tried to make that clear; I admit that my expressive skills are not exactly the best in the world, so my OP may have come off a bit more aggitated or rude than I had intended it to.

However, there is a real difference between writing a novellete for each action your PC takes and appropriately describing that reaction to the rest of the room.

People should be able to be descriptive if they want their emotes to read like a 10 cents romance novel that's fine to me at least they're -trying.- A player shouldn't have to be  concerned about is this emote detrimental or not, I don't see any harm in elaboration.

There is trying, and then there is linguistical flaunting and self-masturbation.

I am not talking about looking at each and every one of a person's emotes and forcing them to have a private mental debate over whether or not an emote is suitable, short enough, long enough, or is written in a perfect pentameter.

It's been established that it is very inconsiderate to try and encrouch onto another player's enjoyment of the game because you are aggravated with their style.  But at the same time, you must admit, it is highly inconsiderate to encrouch onto their own enjoyment of te game because you want to prove you can write a new novellete every 5 to 10 seconds.

If my back is turned to you at a bar, I really should not have to read through 3 lines of description going into agonizing detail about the way that light plays within the depths of your [insert vague or archaic word here] eyes and slips down the streaks of [a color no one's heard of before] hair framing your [some adjective with atleast one synomyn dealing with beauty] face to get to the part where you tap me on the shoulder.

Sure in things like HRPTs when there is to much going on it's okay to limit yourself but otherwise, who cares.

Uh, I do, apparently.

There are A LOT of things that can be going on OUTSIDE of HRPTs.  Why should you only be considerate to other players when its something organized that's going on?  Is there something *special* about HRPTs that I'm not aware of?  As far as I'm concerned, HRPTs are no more uber in roleplay than the everyday confrontations I play out on the weekdays.

In one instance where I had to endure repetitive 4-liners at 4am, there were ATLEAST 5 other people besides myself and the emoter in a tavern. And yeah, these explosively detailed novelletes were ALL in taverns with a group of people.  

And generally I'd just like to comment that emotes shouldn't be policed and this complaint is ridiculous.  Stop elaborating on your emotes in a text based game, I don't like to read!  

And generally I'd just like to comment that I think you are taking this as too much of a personal slap on the wrist; how dare I even suggest there's a such thing as emotes that go to far?  How dare YOU suggest I don't belong here as a part of this playerbase, hmm?

Did I ever say I didn't like to read?  I love to read.  I love high detail.  But there is a time and place for everything.  Hell, even I will throw out the occasional 5-liner... but its rare and special, and usually the result of something climatical in my roleplay.  

I love detailed mdescs (room, PC, object, whatever).  I can read these at my leisure (usually when I first see them); they don't interrupt my play, don't correspond with anything currently happening.  They are static, but they offer up all the information to fill in the blanks of my imagination.  

Next it will be people don't emote enough I want to see more creativity.  That fact OOC that you are taken aback by an emote elaborating on small actions you WOULD be able to see every detail of doesn't mean that emote shouldn't be there.

Here's the deal.

There is the IC level of the world -- the place where all the beautiful magic happens.  It's what we are here for, after all.  We have to protect this realm as best we can, and the methods with which we use to do this are easily discussed in other threads.

But there is also an OOC level to the game.  As much as you would like to pretend that you are living in a completely different world, those bastard breeds and cut-throat elves are being puppeted by real-life human beings, who are playing along with you for your enjoyment just as much as their own.  

Assuming that they are giving their best to the scene to help along with the game's immersion (i.e, they are not twinking, spamming, being out of theme, or intentionally trying to ruin the game), then you ought to do your best in return to make sure that they get just as much joy out of playing the game as you, EVEN if this means not writing in hard blocks.

You are not playing by yourself.

[jcarter]

What's with this mentality of "I don't like it so I'm going to post a thread about it!"?

Let people emote how they want, how often they want, and how long they want. It's a damn game.

[Vesperas]

What's with this mentality of "I don't like it so I'm going to post a thread about it!"?

Let people emote how they want, how often they want, and how long they want. It's a damn game.

That I happen to play as well.

[spawnloser]

As long as we can kill off whoever has their character act like the prima-donna on center stage...because these characters obviously feel they're so important to do everything in such dramatic ways, flaunting whatever they think they have when there are obviously more important people in the world like nobles...I can agree with you jcarter.  Everyone gets to do what they want.  It's a game!

[jcarter]

What's with this mentality of "I don't like it so I'm going to post a thread about it!"?

Let people emote how they want, how often they want, and how long they want. It's a damn game.

That I happen to play as well.

Yeah, you play it. It's not your game, and it's not your place to ask other plays to tone down how they play it either.

Don't like someone's emoting? Use the request tool and send in a complaint. CASE SOLVED!

As long as we can kill off whoever has their character act like the prima-donna on center stage...because these characters obviously feel they're so important to do everything in such dramatic ways, flaunting whatever they think they have when there are obviously more important people in the world like nobles...I can agree with you jcarter. Everyone gets to do what they want. It's a game!

Do you just post because you can?

[Jherlen]

Issues of taste are never going to get agreed on, and how long you like your emotes to be is essentially that.

Poweremoting is something different: you can force actions on other characters in a one-line emote or in a three-line one; either way it's bad.

But just like it would be bad to go ooc and critiscise other players for not emoting enough, it would be bad to go ooc and tell them to tone down their emotes. In either case I would say wish up to the staff if you have a problem. (For me, though, for every 3-liner novelist out there, there are five people who barely emote at all, and they're a worse problem.)

[Malken]

Malken grins.

[spawnloser]

I'd ask the same of you, jcarter.  We both have every right to voice our opinion.  I don't post unless I want to say something...and when I want to say something, I post.  Simple, isn't it?

Your suggestion was overly simple.  I pointed out how.

We all play this game and I don't see you bitching out everyone that says, "I noticed my fellow players doing this and find it fucking annoying."  Why not?  Those other people that are annoying other players are just trying to have fun, in this game that they don't own.

Noone owns the game, which is why we all have to have consideration for each other.  When you write a novel, you take away my ability to react to each individual thing you do in the paragraph that is your emote.  This is poweremoting as LoD pointed out...because when you stand, run across the room, draw your weapon and put it against my throat, isn't there a chance that I could have reacted well before the weapon started to move...like when you started to run?

This is the problem.  If you want to tell us to shut up and deal with it, I promise you that some people will not like it and react in the only way that you feel they should...IG, and this sorts of reactions may be messy.

Editted to add: And before you say that that's not playing someone's character correctly, you'd be amazed how easily you can justify hating someone.  It's just finding the means to respond to that hatred.

[jcarter]

We all play this game and I don't see you bitching out everyone that says, "I noticed my fellow players doing this and find it fucking annoying." Why not? Those other people that are annoying other players are just trying to have fun, in this game that they don't own.

Because it's not a matter of "I noticed people doing this and it's annoying", it's a matter of "hey guys should i tell this rascal to knock off his 3 or 4 line emotes?"

Which also holds the side-effect of making the players of emoters like that uncomfortable, since now they can easily feel singled out by reading the message and wondering if it's them.

As for not crusading in every single thread where people complain, well, I'd think the reasons are pretty obvious. I don't have the time, nor interest, in complaining to other players that I don't like them complaining about things that happen in an obscure online game that not even 0.1% of the population knows exists.

If I was a moderator though, I'd probably just go and delete the threads and ban people who I thought were idiots. That's probably why I'm not a moderator or on staff.

[spawnloser]

Probably not.

Also, it's not like anyone is bitching about something the rest of us don't know about.  It doesn't matter that less thatn .1% of the population knows the game exists...100% of the people reading this thread know the game exists.  That's a good percentage, don't you think?

If you don't like the bitching, stop reading the GDB.  When playing the game, though, you don't have the option to stop reading.

[Lizzie]

Hello. This has been an interesting discussion. I've learned a little about both sides of the coin and will convey mine.

I came from an RPI-type mud to here. I'm used to detailed emoting. But even in the other mud we had what some people called "drama queens." They wanted to impress people, not with their roleplay, but with their emotes. Those types grated on the nerves of everyone else, to the point where people would avoid the characters if they knew the drama queens were playing them. Sometimes someone would post about it, and be soundly thrashed for daring to critize the marvelous emoting styles of these "drama queens." So after awhile, it was just simply much easier to avoid them. And the drama queens ended up RPing only with each other, and there weren't enough of them to support their combined RP, and they started complaining, and it was a mess.

My suggestion, intended kindly, is if you are reading this thread and are offended by it, perhaps you are one of the people that others feel are the "drama queens." And if you are, or think you might be (which is really the only reason why anyone would be offended, since if it isn't you, then it isn't directed toward you either), then you might consider that your emoting style is a little too intimidating for those people who don't use a similar style.

The novelette-style dramatic uber-detailed paragraphs are great for books. With a book, you can skim over it, turn back a few pages if you think you might have missed something, then return to the current page without anything changing, or something new happening that you missed by not remaining on your current page. In a text game, if you scroll back, you risk missing something significant happening. You miss the opportunity to react to it. The moment might be over, before you even noticed it begun. In addition, if you are a slow typist, you are causing whoever is with you to sit there waiting while you get that impressive dramatic 3-line uber-detailed emote out to the game. This can hold up plotlines. It can hold up RP, not help it. It can cause hunters to be stuck behind closed gates because it turned dark while they were waiting for their boss to express exactly how the wind is whipping their hair, or the angle of their finger as they beckon you forth.

If you find that things take too long to resolve, whenever you are around, it might just be you that is causing it. And it might be helpful if you examine your own style, just to be sure that your detailed emoting isn't hindering the RP of everyone else, rather than helping and encouraging it.

That's all I really wanted to say, I hope it wasn't too long, and that I didn't offend anyone. My emotes aren't as long as this, I promise

L. Stanson

[Reiloth]

THIS IS QUITE SILLY!

I've known players that emote like crap. One liners, mostly code, and I still feel like they are right next to me, nodding at me with a slight smile.

Yeah, we all know the slight smilers. Hell. We were all slight smilers once.

But come on. Drama queens? I understand, to the extent that some players that use..."Flowery Emotes"...Don't use the vocabulary right, get the words wrong, use a subjective word that is vague. But cut them slack. They are throwing the fuck down. I haven't met someone in this game ever that I said to myself "This guy's style of roleplaying offends me." I've had difficulty playing with foreign players, and understanding what they were saying because english is their second language. Still, I said to myself "This guy's trying his hardest." Everyone's trying their hardest at this game. If it was easy to emote and write, and be creative 100% of the time in this mostly improv text-based game, half the people in the world with internet would be playing it.

I've been playing Arm for three years and still consider myself a newbie. If someone is having trouble emoting, help them out. If they are emoting, be it simple or complex, don't sweat it. I doubt any of these 'drama queens' are going to have you locked out of a gate where you're going to die so that they can describe how the wind whips about their ankles. I've yet to see anything like this in the game, ever. The character's i've known to be 'flowery' know when its time to be efficient, and when its time to be longwinded. Everyone has their style, and I choose to appreciate both ends of this 'emotive art' spectrum; the intricately complex, and the glaringly simple emotes makes the world go round. I'm a fan of long emotes in one huge paragraph, and broken down into several emotes. I'm a fan of simple ass, brief emotes. Bring it on.

[Cuusardo]

Drama queen, I can understand.  The drama queen is the person that goes to a party RPT, and types out several very long and very detailed emotes just to describe how (s)he is vomiting in the corner.

However, this is NOT a common thing among this community.  At least not that I've seen.

[Lizzie]

I'm sorry, I should have bolded or italicized the crux. My use of the term "drama queen" is explicit, and I did mention that the term is used to describe a very specific type of gamer, and I described that type. Here it is again:

Where I came from the phrase "drama queen" was directed exclusively to people who wanted to impress others through their emotes, and not through their roleplay.

I don't know if there are people like that in Arm, I imagine there are, and it looks like some people posting in this thread might be talking about those types of gamers. In an older thread I saw, a staff member wrote "emoting does not equal roleplaying." That is the point I am trying to make. It goes both ways, don't you think? Everyone tells new players "oh don't worry about not emoting enough, emoting isn't roleplaying. Just get into your character and behave as your character would behave." The other side of the spectrum is what seems to have inspired this thread. "Oh don't spend so much time trying to come up with the most impressive emote you can think of, if you feel the waiting time and/or scroll (depending on the circumstances) for coming up with it might deter from your enjoyment and the enjoyment of everyone else.  Emoting isn't roleplaying. Just get into your character and behave as your character would behave."

L. Stanson

[jcarter]

At this point, I really have to wonder whether this thread is some giant joke that I've missed or if some of you really believe the things you type.

[Nao]

I know what type of drama-queen emoting you're talking about here, and I've noticed this is a problem in certain other RPIs - but I've seen this happen only once during the time I played here and never saw that character again - I don't think it's too much of a problem here.

[WarriorPoet]

I'm on the fence, here. I hate to read a dozen four-liners in a row. I don't really need to know how exactly how the delicate webbed wrinkles at the corners of your luminescant visage crinkle gently as your lids drift slowly together and... uh... blink. Yeah. I hate that. BUT, I also despise seeing a hundred 'emote nods' and 'emote shakes his head'.

Detail is good, but brevity can be just as acceptable. Find a middle ground.

I know that I've chosen to kind of 'miss' some people's RP if they're overly wordy with cheesy shit, or if they continually spam 2-word emotes and socials. Find a middle ground.

-WP knows that his own emoting is superior, anyway.

[Path of loving compassion]

I'm still a slight smiler....sometimes. Although something Sanvean once wrote about the words "almost", "rather" and "slight" always rings through my head when I use them.

The best suggestion I've heard was: if you find a certain character going consistently heavy on the emotes, give them a heads up through the request tool. (NOT using the OOC command, God help us.)

The only other thing I wanted to add is that we're all in various stages of learning and developing our writing, of which emotes rank alongside speech or...could be more important, depending on the character. Obviously important. I remember when I started playing - scraping together four lines for my character's main description was a challenge and even a few years later, I envied people who could lay out a beautifully described four-line emote. Now, after almost nine years of off and on play I still find myself pressing to find new ways of delivery, new ways to both evoke and keep it simple.

I hear you, sometimes players get wordy. I sometimes skim. But hell, they're giving it a go and I love that. Actually, I also really love the newbs. They fill my heart with joy as I watch their often bumbling or inept delivery.

So, in conclusion, I hope people feel motivated to develop as writers and carry that through their RP. However, it be a game, says I. It's play. Relax and enjoy, just mind the gith.