Recent Tuluki RPT

[ale six]

LoD, that was an excellent way to put it.

[spawnloser]

My issue with the sentiment, as expressed, is that it seems to suggest that everyone doing whatever they do in Tuluk should expect the Chosen to come looking for them.  The reverse should be true.  If that guy over there doesn't seem to be seeking patronage, well, fuck him...I'll get this other guy over here that wants patronage.

The other issue I have with this topic, specififcally in relation to bards, has to do with something discussed in another thread and briefly mentioned here: bards tend to come out the gate as super stars able to do anything and everything that isn't supported by code perfectly.  Everyone starts as the proverbial 'TEH SUXXORZ' and to expect the Chosen to chase your character when s/he hasn't even made Bard rank yet?  Presumptuous and with a feeling of entitlement that I don't think is warranted.

And finally, in relation to what I said directly to Gimsfalisette, I started it saying that I'd noticed a trend.  By this I'd meant that over the course of a few threads, I'd noticed a general bent to Gimsfalisette's position on things in relation to bards which I think are a bit unrealistic.  This is Armageddon, not Happy Tree Park, and all of our characters start off with little skill and have to build towards being elite or famous.  Bards should be in the same boat as everyone else and have to work for it, not have it handed to them.  NOTE, what was said in the thread discussing bards applies to this as well: the character has to work for it, and by this I mean that we don't know how much work the player put in.  Two weeks or two minutes?  Makes no difference to the viewing public.  You shouldn't be able to climb from Apprentice to Master Bard just because you the player are a creative person schooled in the arts.  You have to put in the work IN GAME to reach a point where every Chosen would be pursuing you.

[Gimfalisette]

Proud to be someone's prize poodle?  Sure, why not.  If someone steps on your tail, you can whine and your patron might give them a dirty look or make them disappear, but despite what ambitions and thoughts you have, all you're ever likely going to be is a common prize to the wealthy.  Not a peer, not a friend, not an equal.  A prize for which they pay you handsomely in coin and deed.

This is a thing which I think so many players misunderstand. ICly speaking, bards are pawns. If they are good at what they do, they are very valuable pawns, but they are still pawns. Valuable pawns have higher social standing, they might be richer and better fed, and yeah they get to flaunt that to other commoners/pawns who aren't as valuable. A good bard knows this completely, and knows that his/her value is only as high as the most recent service to patron or other commissioning entity. A good bard works hard to keep up with this standard of service. (And no, I'm not just talking about winning competitions, by far.)

As to bards having "attitude"...of course they shouldn't have attitude toward the Chosen or Faithful or act like they are equivalent to or better than the upper castes. (But do we really think that a bard who did this would be surviving?) Will they have attitude toward other commoners? Maybe, it depends on who those commoners are and where they stand in society. (Again, survivability could be at stake.)

But stating here on the forums, OOCly, that the docs support competition by patrons for good partisans, is really not the equivalent of showing attitude to the Faithful or Chosen ICly, right?

[Intrepid]

Hey, guys.

I'm probably the last person you want to hear from about a topic like this, but I just thought I'd point something out:

I know I can't speak for everyone, but I have to say that this thread is probably doing more to promote interest in New Tuluk for me than any of the other threads previous to it.  People tend to debate about things they're interested in, and nitpick over details about topics they enjoy.  Someone saying, "I <3 Tuluk" is far less effective and believable an advertisement than people marveling over the intricacies of structure in a fictitious society and making it sound real.  I've seen it countless times in Nakki threads, but this really is the first time I've seen a thread about the Tuluki side of the equation.

Anyway...yes, I know this has little or nothing to do with the actual thread; just a sidenote.  Please carry on, and feel free to PM me with abusive rhetoric on how I derailed the thread.

[Reiloth]

You shouldn't be able to climb from Apprentice to Master Bard just because you the player are a creative person schooled in the arts.  You have to put in the work IN GAME to reach a point where every Chosen would be pursuing you.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. I'm a musician IRL, and have been for all my life. I still have to restrain myself from using music terms that aren't generally known, and try to be more vague with my emotes, and to fuck up A LOT on instruments I don't know how to play, but am asked to play. I feel that a lot of bards, especially at a competition, will be as perfect as possible. Rarely do I see someone compensating for a bad song through vivacious emotes, or being scared SHITLESS about their performance. I'm seeing more of it recently, but fuck, it needs to happen more.

On topic, though, I feel that Bards are courted by multiple Chosen. It would be like if Bard A was suddenly really good, got promoted, won a couple of competitions...More than one Noble would want him as a partisan. I don't think the Bard would be like FUCK THAT I don't want a Patron! He would just have to weigh his decisions wisely, and decide who was the better road, and who he could afford to piss off by turning down. And which Patron would have his back, if his choice really offended the other Nobles, y'know? Not like an entitlement of "I'm the shit, everyone wants me, but fuck them because i'm the shit and i'm way better than them anyways." But "Fuck, I got three Nobles that want me to be their  partisan..Um..Who's not going to knock me off if I turn them down? Who's got the most resources? Who offered me what, and what benefits me the most, and what benefits them the most by my serving them?" That sort of thing. Deliberation, but eventual submission.

[Morfeus]

I also agree. I always thought this is similar as IRL: most of people have to come to the employer to be hired. Then there are few very good ones and companies would competite to get those in their ranks. Therefore: most of Apprentices and unknown bards have to approach someone to get a patron. Then there are these known, favourite Bards... and patrons will most probably competite for them.

[bardbard#4]

Keep in mind that upper level nobles would have a much better chance at getting a Bard or Master Bard as their partisan than a ho-hum baby noble, of which 99% of PC nobles are.

[Morfeus]

Keep in mind that upper level nobles would have a much better chance at getting a Bard or Master Bard as their partisan than a ho-hum baby noble, of which 99% of PC nobles are.

Well, upper level nobles have better chance in a lot of things. I guess these are patrons of Master Bards. But I am a bit doubtful about them being interested in every each of Bards - at least from my experience, all PC Bards I remember were patronized by PC nobles/templars (and yes, for some of them patrons competited).

99% of PC nobles might be "ho-hum baby nobles", but it's them who is appointed to work on public (and also, NPCs and vNPCs usually leave PCs to deal with PC population - at least I believe so).

[spawnloser]

Actually, in my experience, there is a lot of climbing of social ladder in game.  I know of quite a few Chosen that have gained rank within their House through play that would leave them as HARDLY a baby noble.  At one point in time, there were two nobles in game and both held a good amount of power within their respective Houses.  It was an interesting and odd time, as both of them were quite weird, but hey, that's what you get sometimes.