Gemmed in the HoK

[Rhyden]

Why can't gemmed mages of Allanak acquire their gem in the Hall of Kings? It's similar to getting caste tattoos, as I see it.

Since I believe mages pay a certain amount of coin for their gem from templars, perhaps it could be reduced in the Hall of Kings if they got it there instead of IC.

Or is there a good reason why mages need to be gemmed IC, such as, so the Templar can remember who they've gemmed and who they haven't?

[Barzalene]

IC Interaction with the templars who use the sid to buy the flour for their travelcakes or um... inscense and live goats to sacrifice to their god king..or dutifully turn over to the treasury

[Dakkon Black]

I'd have to say this is probably an ok Idea. Allthough there will be people who say it takes away pc interaction, another truth is that I know many mages who got their gems from npc templars animated by staff.

So all I can see here, would be a chance for staff to have a little less of that burden, and at the same time, most gemmers will be actively seeking pc templars anyways in order to get jobs etc.

The only downside could be that coins don't get handed to a pc templar, and are given in the HoK which reduces money in the economy, but there's plenty of coin in templar accounts most of the time I'd think.

I totally like the idea.

[Armaddict]

I'd assume so that the templarate knows of a new resource available (since as discussed in other threads, the job opportunities of mages are generally with the templarate or oash).

Just a guess, though.

[Larrath]

There are good and bad points to this.

The good - it prevents unrealistic situations such as mages who were gemmed in their backgrounds having to find a PC templar because their old gem broke.
The bad - the PC templars might never run into the gemmer or know they exist.  That can lead to some IC trouble that shouldn't exist [I won't elaborate], as well as greatly reduce the interaction for both gemmer and templar.

[Marauder Moe]

I would wonder if perhaps there's an issue with detecting a magicker guild in the HoK scripts.  Maybe it's in the works.

Technicalities aside, I think getting gemmed in the HoK should definitely be an option.

[LauraMars]

I've heard of people wishing up for gems before.  Don't see a problem with this, and I don't think it's unrealistic for a PC templar to come across a gemmed they've never met or didn't personally gem.  There are thousands of gemmed in Allanak.

There will be other, interesting interaction for both parties in the future, should either be skilled enough to initiate it.

[Anonymous]

Lauramars sed:

There are thousands of gemmed in Allanak.

Are you sure about that?  I thought hundreds, maybe... but thousands.  yowza.

[spawnloser]

There's a LOT, Guest.

I'm with Laura, myself.  It is not unrealistic at all for Templars to come across people they didn't gem personally...in fact, it would still happen if the only way to get a gem was from PC-PC interaction.  Also, plenty of people wish up for their gems.  I've played a few gemmers and never got my gem from a PC Templar.

[Lazloth]

I think getting gemmed in the HoK should definitely be an option.

I'm with Moe.

[Marauder Moe]

There are about 400,000 people in Allanak.  I'd assume that nobles and templars combined might number in the thousands, so let's dismiss that as relevent and use 400k to mean the number of commoners.  I believe it was said that slaves make up about 80% of the common population, so that leaves about 80,000 free commoners.  Most likely, I'd guess at least 75% live in the common quarter, so 60,000.  In geographic size, the common quarter and the magicker quarter are about the same size, but even if the magicker quarter was only 1/10th as densely populated as the common quarter, that'd leave 6,000 gemmed residents using geographic logic.  

Unfortunately, that would mean that gemmed comprise nearly 1.5% of Allanak's population, a number which seems a little high to me.

You can draw your own conclusions about other percentages of the population, but I don't think the staff ever gave out IC statistics about elementalism nor would I think they intend to.

Bottom line, it might be reasonable for there to be thousands of gemmed.  It might also be reasonable for there to be mere hundreds.

[Barzalene]

Even if there are thousands, thery're not all getting gemmed on the same day.

[jhunter]

I think the option to get your gem should be available in the Hall of Kings.

[corona]

I agree that it takes away from PC interaction. Now that people are back from the war, it shouldn't be too hard to find that PC templar, and wishing up as usually been able to solve this problem if one PC templar isn't around. I don't think that offering them in the Hall of Kings would promote roleplay, but I understand some PC's should, according to backgrounds, have had theirs for years, now.  :twisted:

[Twilight]

I've been gemmed more than a few times.

The interaction has changed.  The first few times I was gemmed, the templars took the time to tell me some rules.  They had me do something with the gem.  And basically made sure my character knew his/her place and was appropriately terrified of the templarate.

The last few times I have been gemmed, the templars seemed to try to get the whole interaction over with as soon as they could.  They didn't bother to mention any rules at all, I guess assuming my character knew them.  While I sometimes later got some interaction through them knowing the character, I was extremely disappointed in the interaction around the gemming itself.

If the interaction was like back when I first had characters gemmed, I'd disagree with allowing gems in the HoK.  If its going to be brushed off IC'ly as a small task of the templar though, to be hurried through as quickly as possible, I'd say there's little point in not doing it.

[jcarter]

The thing is, not all PC magickers are played as suddenly realizing they're a magicker while coming right out of character gen. Some mages got them as soon as they realized their powers, some didn't. It makes the "PC interaction" thing a whole lot more awkward.

[Marauder Moe]

Yes, but many are also played as having been gemmed at childhood.

[Rhyden]

There's only two downsides I can think of:

1. Allanaki Templars get less income.
2. Allanaki Templars don't know every PC they've gemmed.

For the first part, I think Allanaki Templars should get a stipend like nobles but a smaller amount that is acquired from taxes.

The second part is the main reason I think you can't get your gems in the HoK. You could argue that the Templars shouldn't know every mage around, but then again you could argue that the PC Templars should focus on PC mages, more or less.

I think mages should be able to get their gems in the HoK.

I've heard of people wishing up for gems before. Don't see a problem with this, and I don't think it's unrealistic for a PC templar to come across a gemmed they've never met or didn't personally gem. There are thousands of gemmed in Allanak.

I've done this before and was told to find a PC templar.

[Hymwen]

1. Allanaki Templars get less income.

I think the amount templars charge for the gem is very small, probably less than what your average templar spends on a good meal. You don't want people to run around without a gem because they think it's too expensive

2. Allanaki Templars don't know every PC they've gemmed.

Should they? It's a lot easier for a player to remember an sdesc that they gemmed a RL week ago than it is for a living person to remember another dirty bugger they gemmed an IG month ago. I bet that if you count in virtual mages, templars gem people every day and forget them just as fast.

[Rhyden]

Exactly, Hymwen.

[WarriorPoet]

Twilight summed up my feelings perfectly. Read that post again.

-WP

[Bebop]

I think gemmers should be able to get their gems at starting if it is in their background that they would already have them.  NPC Templars could have gave it to them.  The PC templars aren't the only templars in the city, and they wouldn't know every gemmer by their face.  I know it has it's benefits but for the sake of realism I would get with letting the gemmed get their gem in the HOK.

[Cale_Knight]

Definitely should be able to get gems from the start. If you're a 25-year-old magicker and you don't have a gem, that means one of two things:

1) You've been a magicker for only a day or so and are looking for a templar.
2) You've been hiding your powers for years and have been breaking the law with each passing day.

There really should be more options than that. Magickers who want to RP the interaction would still have that opportunity.

[Angela Christine]

1. Allanaki Templars get less income.

I think the amount templars charge for the gem is very small, probably less than what your average templar spends on a good meal. You don't want people to run around without a gem because they think it's too expensive

I've played gemmed a few times over the years, and this thread is the first time I've ever heard of Templars charging for the gem.  Is it a new thing?  Because it sounds kind of crazy.  You don't make a mul pay for his own slave collar and whip.

[LauraMars]

Are you guys really so starved for PC interaction that you're going to vote for taking away some very viable, realistic options and maybe a load off the staff's back?  It is not hard to initiate roleplay with a templar...especially negative roleplay (which is what getting the gem usually is).

Come on, if they want the interaction and big dramatic scene with a templar...just don't pick the gem and manifest in the barrel.  Otherwise you can start as a magicker, as per your background, and be hated and reviled to your heart's content from the very beginning.

[Marauder Moe]

Gemming seems to vary greatly from templar to templar.  Some will sit down with you, explain the rules, and even offer a job (or point you in his buddy Lord Oash's direction).  Others will make you pay for it and teach you nothing except how it works (by example).  Such variations seem perfectly reasonable to me.

[Also, those templars that make you pay for a gem probably collect fines/taxes/bribes from just about everyone who comes to them for something.]

[Hymwen]

1. Allanaki Templars get less income.

I think the amount templars charge for the gem is very small, probably less than what your average templar spends on a good meal. You don't want people to run around without a gem because they think it's too expensive

I've played gemmed a few times over the years, and this thread is the first time I've ever heard of Templars charging for the gem.  Is it a new thing?  Because it sounds kind of crazy.  You don't make a mul pay for his own slave collar and whip.

You know, I don't know. I just assumed it because other people said so in this thread. I've yet to play a gemmer (and I probably never will).

[InsertCleverNameHere]

I have seen them charge, and been charged for one. And the price wasn't that tiny, if you happen to have a broke PC. But then, maybe the price varies from templar to templar, magicker to magicker.

[aruna]

1. Allanaki Templars get less income.

I think the amount templars charge for the gem is very small, probably less than what your average templar spends on a good meal. You don't want people to run around without a gem because they think it's too expensive

I've played gemmed a few times over the years, and this thread is the first time I've ever heard of Templars charging for the gem.  Is it a new thing?  Because it sounds kind of crazy.  You don't make a mul pay for his own slave collar and whip.

You know, I don't know. I just assumed it because other people said so in this thread. I've yet to play a gemmer (and I probably never will).

I don't remember the gem ever costing anything either, but I've only ever gotten one once, and that was a few years ago.

Edit: Maybe it's up to the discretion of the Templar? (Who needs fairness among mages? Pfft.)

[Yokunama]

1. Allanaki Templars get less income.

I think the amount templars charge for the gem is very small, probably less than what your average templar spends on a good meal. You don't want people to run around without a gem because they think it's too expensive

I've played gemmed a few times over the years, and this thread is the first time I've ever heard of Templars charging for the gem.  Is it a new thing?  Because it sounds kind of crazy.  You don't make a mul pay for his own slave collar and whip.

You know, I don't know. I just assumed it because other people said so in this thread. I've yet to play a gemmer (and I probably never will).

I don't remember the gem ever costing anything either, but I've only ever gotten one once, and that was a few years ago.

Edit: Maybe it's up to the discretion of the Templar? (Who needs fairness among mages? Pfft.)

I do remember a friend getting his gem for free and my character getting his for a fee.
It really depends upon the templar. Some charge for a gem and some don't. Maybe it depends on the templar, if they are doing something important to deal with you, or if they like or dislike you or your element for some odd reason.

[Yokunama]

I do think character should be able to get gemmed in the Hall of Kings, because theres very little interaction, concerning the gemming process. If interaction is needed, people buying or claiming citizenship in the north can get their citizenship tattoos inquiring a templar about them.

[marko]

I think the making the option available is a good thing.

Some people have char's that have manifested well before they log into the game and for these people it makes sense to come into the game with a gem.

Others manifest when they start their char - at that time they should seek out a templar and get their gem.

And finally others manifest well after starting their char (sometimes a period of RL months goes by) and again, at that time, they should seek out a templar for their gem.

Options are good.

[Cavus]

Well, I am not sure if it has been said, but here it is. If you have a background like:
"....He noticed that he has some unsual powers, and then informs His Templarate about it. In later years, he practiced his skills...bla bla and bla"

In that case, you just wish up for a gem at Hall of Kings, or when you point somewhere you quit your char to OOC room before none see you. And again wish up and get your gem.

[Hymwen]

The problem is that sometimes nobody's around to answer your wish. Do you want to stand around in the HoK for 2 hours right after having waited for character approval, just to receive something that your character should have had for years? I don't see any problem with giving people the option of getting a gem in the HoK. Those who would rather make some RP out of becoming gemmed, well, they can do just that!

[jcarter]

Just another note--

If you receive a gem in the Hall of Kings, you WILL lose it when you pick your citystate. This happened to my PC.

[Eternal]

This is, I assume, why the Tuluki tattoo room isn't a part of the Hall of Kings itself.

Now, on task.  I actually don't see a reason why not, provided that you aren't given the option to equip it, but rather must wear it immediately.  If you want a gem that isn't around your neck in game, you need to get it yourself.  If you want a gem that should have been around your neck since you (manifested?... really?) gave in and embraced your inner freakness then that's fine by me.

Actually, I could see an arguement for merchant tokens as well, though I think those are well-handled ic.

Lord Templar Hard Nose believes all magickers should be branded, tattooed, gemmed and made into ottomans.

[Eternal]

I've played gemmed a few times over the years, and this thread is the first time I've ever heard of Templars charging for the gem.  Is it a new thing?  Because it sounds kind of crazy.  You don't make a mul pay for his own slave collar and whip.

Glad I wasn't the only one wondering this...

[Ghost]

I have noticed paying for the gem as new.  But somehow it does not look so much out of place.  Because templars can charge you for just being in their presence, or just for being in their company.  I am assuming, you can go around and take your gem without paying for anything even if the templar asks you for, but then you will just see the badside of the templar immediately.  So you are actually buying the templar's good manners.

I think it is okay.  The templar can do whatever trick he wants to do.  He is kind of giving you an option.  Or rather asking you.  You can refuse it, but you would be best if you did not.

And on the original topic:  Getting the gem in the HoK does not sound too good to me.  The gem is giving you and the templar to know each other.  The gemmed are often left alone to find a living for their own.  So by the interaction of the gem, the templar will get the idea of how he can find a place for you perhaps in a future plot to come.

If there was an automated option in the HoK, there would be more people getting the gem from there and missing the first interaction.  I would not support that, and if someone has gem in their background, I think they should wish up instead of making it automated.  This way, it will be more likely unless someone specifically makes it clear he had gem before, people would go for getting it from a PC templar.

[Yokunama]

And on the original topic:  Getting the gem in the HoK does not sound too good to me.  The gem is giving you and the templar to know each other.  The gemmed are often left alone to find a living for their own.  So by the interaction of the gem, the templar will get the idea of how he can find a place for you perhaps in a future plot to come.

If this were true, the same would be for the caste tattoos. People, whom do not have their tattoos, can walk up to a templar and ask for them, but it doesn't create much RP.

The first encounter with a PC templar doesn't really ensure you that you'll be kept in mind, concerning a future plots. The only way you are going to get put in any plots is to beg the templar's for work, something that can be done long after you obtain the gem. If anything, you'll still remain in your temple with hours and hours gone to the solo roleplaying gemmed magickers are so good at.

Yea, I admit, sometimes you will get visits from a templar, but you have to be very useful magicker if you are going to start receiving those encounters. Being a good and attractive roleplayer doesn't hurt either - everyone lurves good roleplayers.

I hate having a magicker gemmed in his/her background (earlier stages of life), only to appear within the game, wait around hours (sometimes RL days), and ask for another gem. Sometimes, theres no garuentee that your wish will get answered if it ever comes to that. So, you are basically stuck waiting around more hours or days even. It took three or four days to get my first magicker gemmed (wishing included), and all the rules were suppose to have been laid out for me by an unanimated NPC in one of the temples.

Having magickers gemmed before they leave the HOKs is a good idea, in my opinion.

[Halaster]

I'm definitely not for this idea, for several reasons, one of them being having to buy a gem from a templar is some good interaction that can occur between players, so why take it away from them?

[Hymwen]

Does this mean that gemmed people only have the two options of either having just discovered their affinity, or having hidden their abilities up until the point where they go and get their gem IG?

So no "she was gemmed as a child and has grown up in the Elementalists' Quarters..." or "having worn the gem for a year now, she is beginning to make use of the innate skills she once loathed..." backgrounds?

[Nao]

Are you guys really so starved for PC interaction that you're going to vote for taking away some very viable, realistic options and maybe a load off the staff's back?  It is not hard to initiate roleplay with a templar...especially negative roleplay (which is what getting the gem usually is).

There's a few problems with that - there are no templars the play primarily off peak and there probably won't be any in the near future so off-peak players would have to sit around for RL weeks waiting to get gemmed (most of the time I couldn't find a templar if I absolutely had to, they find me for the nasty negative stuff). Most won't do that but wish up instead and bother the staff - might as well get it in the hall of kings. Then the wishing up has it's own problems...

[LauraMars]

Are you guys really so starved for PC interaction that you're going to vote for taking away some very viable, realistic options and maybe a load off the staff's back?  It is not hard to initiate roleplay with a templar...especially negative roleplay (which is what getting the gem usually is).

There's a few problems with that - there are no templars the play primarily off peak and there probably won't be any in the near future so off-peak players would have to sit around for RL weeks waiting to get gemmed (most of the time I couldn't find a templar if I absolutely had to, they find me for the nasty negative stuff). Most won't do that but wish up instead and bother the staff - might as well get it in the hall of kings. Then the wishing up has it's own problems...

....Yes.  My post WAS advocating the logic of getting the gem in the hall of kings, and the ease of initiating (other types of) roleplay with templars, if you so choose.  Sorry if that wasn't clear to you, but we're actually in agreement.

[Nao]

....Yes.  My post WAS advocating the logic of getting the gem in the hall of kings, and the ease of initiating (other types of) roleplay with templars, if you so choose.  Sorry if that wasn't clear to you, but we're actually in agreement.

oops - thought it was the other way around, sorry.