My Opinion of Allanak

[Forty Winks]

Awhile back, a thread was started that addressed opinions on Tuluk, titled My Opinion of Tuluk, which brought out changes that could be made to Tuluk to make it a better city-state. Between then and present, Tuluk has undergone some awesome adjustments and additions. While I had first intended to do a comparison between the Tuluk back then, and what people thought of Tuluk now, a different topic came to mind. How is Allanak doing since that time? Is Allanak as popular as it once was with the player base? Does Allanak have room for its own changes to be made? Can there be improvements to the current system?

[Synthesis]

If the 'rinth and the crim-code were made slightly more realistic, Allanak would be just about perfect.  It's the way an Armageddon city-state ought to be.

[adgohan]

Allanak has always felt more "real" to the Armageddon design to me.

Allanak feels like a gritty, harsh desert, nasty creatures - fearsome magick, rampant wastes under the burning sun - you are fighting for survival moreso there than I think you do in Tuluk.

One thing Tuluk does have over Allanak though, is their culture. I think Tuluk's culture is a lot more defined and a lot more present in society. I favor Allanak highly over Tuluk - but if I were to comment on where a change needs to be made in Allanak, it would probably be cultural first.

More active use of the Senate, perhaps involving commoners in politics of the harsh city, arena battles are good and illustrate the harsh brutality of Allanaki culture - automated arena battles would be neat. Now that House Fale is open, crazy parties and festivals would be awesome to bring back into Allanaki culture.

A greater culture for the gemmed, bringing them together through a tavern or something, though I won't go far into this because there are 10 threads on it already...

A higher influence on the nobles/Houses, whether it be to give them more power to move plotlines or just more ability to interact with PCs and realistically have PCs doing tasks for nobles, (a lot of nobles can feel limited here, increasing their power isn't a bad thing) - some of that is player discretion, but that's notable here, for people to keep in mind.

I'd say anything that involves Allanak's player characters more deeply in its society is good. Tuluk has bards, music, songs, and storytelling - Allanak's harsh and brutal side can also offer opportunity and fun to their player characters as well.

Allanak currently is a great city-state and I think the closer it reaches the Armageddon feel, the better. There is a solid playerbase, even during the war, within all facilitations of the city.

It will be neat to see how some of these new changes effect Allanak when everyone is back from the war and playing there.

[Rhyden]

I'm personally in favor of Allanak.

I think if Tuluk had a few more qualities like Allanak, it would make it better. I just find Tuluk to be a lot more clean than Allanak. There isn't enough grit factor for a city in a desert world that's supposed to be harsh. Tuluk doesn't seem to have many starving, poor people like Allanak does with NPCs and VNPCs reflecting it.

You find alleyways and piles of crap in Allanak with throngs of beggars, dust everywhere and about a quarter of the walled city is run down. You find bard circles, cleanliness and fancy taverns in Tuluk. Maybe this isn't true but it just seems that Tuluk is overall richer than Allanak. It doesn't seem right to me.

I can live with Tuluk being around. Tuluk is obviously realistic since it is what it is but it would be nice to see it knocked down a few pegs, just so that it doesn't look so much different than the rest of Zalanthas.

[Cuusardo]

You forgot the third option.

C. Both of the above.

I like them both, for different various reasons.

[Angela Christine]

Forty Winks didn't forget, the way the question is formed C. isn't an option.

Which city-state, if you had to choose between the two, do you like more as a player, currently?

I'd say Allanak.  But I haven't played much up north this year, so I'm not sure I can give a fair answer.

[jstorrie]

I prefer Tuluk. It's not so much that Tuluki culture is amazing as that Allanaki culture is embarassing; so many Allanaki players seem to play completely outside the documentation that the city's spirit is defined more by passing whim than in-character history. I feel that the danger of the climate also pushes too many characters into clans, leaving the sort of scenario where you cannot find a single bladecrafter in the city who isn't Salarr, or a single tailor who isn't Kadius; what happened to the scummy, 'sid-grubbing middle-class?

Allanaki devotion to Tektolnes is played in many different, often discordant ways; some worship him, others simply fear him, and the grand majority don't seem to give a shit about him. The Rinth feels poorly integrated, the lower class often completely dries up, and the Barrel is permanently full of elves, magickers, northerners and such.

Tuluk, on the other hand, is a deliciously creepy fascism/theocracy where people disappear overnight. The players have found other players who serve as non-Allanaki nemeses to the city-state, which I will not go in to for IC/OOC sake, but do exist. Politics seem much more interesting as the middle and upper-middle classes can get involved, in stark contrast to Allanak, where often even senior merchants can't get nobles to give them the time of day - despite the documented descriptions of Allanak's social arrangement!

I think many of the people who constantly decry Tuluk are over-hyping Allanak. Allanak is not a bad play area at all, don't get me wrong, and despite its flaws is rightfully the centre of the game-world. I don't, however, think it's that much harsher or made that much for 'hardcore players.' Anyone can figure out how to easily make a ton of cash with little risk of death in Allanak, just as simply as in 'easy-mode' Tuluk.

What I do like about Allanak, a lot:
- the overall feeling of corruption
- the pervasive atmosphere of cruelty
- the Labyrinth

Building more on those elements might draw me away from the northern roles I so often find myself playing. Developing some of what I feel are the less well-done aspects of Allanak - politics, class distinction, magickers, criminals - would draw me even more. However, I don't think that the mud would be aversely affected in any way if the playerbase suddenly shifted northwards. People would have just as much fun in the Gol: Allanak is not really superior to Tuluk in a pure player-enjoyment sense.

[Rhyden]

It's not so much that Tuluki culture is amazing as that Allanaki culture is embarassing; so many Allanaki players seem to play completely outside the documentation that the city's spirit is defined more by passing whim than in-character history.

Can you please give me a link to this documentation? Thanks.

I feel that the danger of the climate also pushes too many characters into clans, leaving the sort of scenario where you cannot find a single bladecrafter in the city who isn't Salarr, or a single tailor who isn't Kadius; what happened to the scummy, 'sid-grubbing middle-class?

That's not totally accurate. You'll find the scummy sid-grubbin' middle-class independent merchants if you look hard enough. And, I've seen just as many indy merchants, hunters, etc. in Allanak as I have in Tuluk.

Allanaki devotion to Tektolnes is played in many different, often discordant ways; some worship him, others simply fear him, and the grand majority don't seem to give a shit about him. The Rinth feels poorly integrated, the lower class often completely dries up, and the Barrel is permanently full of elves, magickers, northerners and such.

I think commoners' general feeling for Tektolnes in Allanak is more present than it is for Muk Utep in Tuluk, personally.

[Cale_Knight]

I really don't think this thread needs to turn into a Tuluk v. Allanak debate. That's not what Forty Winks is really asking for. He's asking what kind of changes you guys think would make Allanak better. This thread would probably be served a lot better without the poll.

Anyway.

I'd like to see the senate made more active. And all that has to happen for it to be "active" is for an imm to do a writeup once a month. We haven't had one of those in many game years.

[moab]

Allanak is, I think, the best that Zalanthas has to offer - but there are many changes that could be made to it to make it better.

Despite that I disagree with much of what jstorrie wrote, there are some good points there.

1. The Bards Barrel should not be a mix of upper classes / lower classes / elves.  I'm always uncomfortable with the elves in there - or with the upper classes (Atrium / nobles).  Get rid of one or the other.

2. More documentation on art and culture.

Wait. Crap. I think I offered to help Hal with that and dropped the ball....

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

The Trader's Inn is for nobles and upper class commoners.

The Bard's Barrel is for Northrons, elves, and middle-class people.

The Gaj is for scum, pure and simple, and that includes the bleeding Byn.

No one enforces this, and so there is no line that is drawn. But that is how it is supposed to be.

The Arena needs to become a bigger part of common life. Games should be held every RL day. That's once an IC week, just about. They don't all have to be those fancy Templar-contrived events, which are awesome, but just typical crap. I know you'll all disagree with me, but I feel like some kid who has nowhere to go should be able to eek out some bread and water from the Arena.

Maybe it would be hack-and-slashish, but I don't care. When a newbie logs in, he should be able to go the Arena and enter to fight some bats or spiders or scorpions or something. As a successful, blood-sport loving Allanaki, I should be able to be in the stands every Nekrete and see some bloody action.

I also dropped the ball on Halaster, but I couldn't come up with good legend stuff. I was too focused on the damned Arena. I better get to work on this.

[Halaster]

Allanak is, I think, the best that Zalanthas has to offer - but there are many changes that could be made to it to make it better.

Despite that I disagree with much of what jstorrie wrote, there are some good points there.

1. The Bards Barrel should not be a mix of upper classes / lower classes / elves.  I'm always uncomfortable with the elves in there - or with the upper classes (Atrium / nobles).  Get rid of one or the other.

2. More documentation on art and culture.

Wait. Crap. I think I offered to help Hal with that and dropped the ball....

YESH SLACKER

A reminder, if you did volunteer and didn't send me anything, please do soon.

[Djarjak]

I don't think that a binary comparison between the two citystates is a fruitful one. "Which is better, apples or oranges?"

It might be more productive to approach this from the standpoint of "what do you like/dislike about Allanak" or "It would be cool if Allanak..." instead.

The citystates aren't designed to be the same, therefore they have a different appeal to different people for different reasons.

Everyone knows Naki's hate Tuluki's and vice versa. That's like the Windows vs. Mac wars of the 80's...

[Beux]

That's like the Windows vs. Mac wars of the 80's...

Thats easy. PC > MAC

Sorry. Derailing.

[Ghost]

I dig Venomz arena idea.  Not the everyday arena event, but an active arena would help.  I will hopefully detail it in my next post.

[Ava]

The Trader's Inn is for nobles and upper class commoners.
The Bard's Barrel is for Northrons, elves, and middle-class people.
The Gaj is for scum, pure and simple, and that includes the bleeding Byn.
No one enforces this, and so there is no line that is drawn. But that is how it is supposed to be.=

I'm going to dissent from some folks here and say that the current usage of the Barrel (aside from the player base being a little small for three taverns) is perfect.

Fun stuff happens on the fringes of propriety.

[Malken]

The arena idea sounds awesome.. Why not make it an automatic event? Someone goes to the arena and places a 'bet', the fights are to the death and depending on the amount of money someone wishes to wager, a random NPC could walk in and fight against you. If you win the fight, you double your wager and the gates are opened once more for you to walk out.

Make it so that you can only enter an arena fight only once every few IC days.. Also, make it with a range.. say.. A 5-15 'sids bet would make you fight against small critters, not too dangerous.. Up to a hundred 'sids or more, where you'd be facing giths and such.

I don't see how it would be more 'twinkish/hackn'slash' than someone mining obsidian every day, crafting items, or sparring..

There would be a risk involved, and would be a great thing to watch, also, the more games someone would survive, the more 'popular' that PC would become.. Heck, why not even make some kind of 'poster-board' where you could see who are the top 10 current 'gladiators' or some such?

[Melody]

I've not yet had the pleasure of playing in Tuluk, but one of my friends has already gone through the comparison confided that she much prefers Tuluk because it's overall 'easier' on the surface and more casual to play. From the little I can gather, I find the same reason shall place me firmly in Allanak so far. But I'm looking forward to even my bias some day soon. (People die often get to try so many roles, I'm envious)

[Cuusardo]

I choose not to choose, because I dislike popularity contests.  That and I just refused to choose because I like them both.

[Nao]

I think that everyone haniging out in the bards barrel isn't that great - you obviously can't close it from one day to another, but it still seems to be too much in the center of attention. Why would everyone decide to hang out in the northerners bar anyway? Middle class removing from the list..

I'd really, really like to see the pbase divided between the traders and the gaj instead of the barrel and the gaj.

[Intrepid]

YESH SLACKER

A reminder, if you did volunteer and didn't send me anything, please do soon.

I did send you a doc you assigned me on Allanak.  Would you be willing to assign any more?

[SpyGuy]

As for the original topic, I'm an Allanak fan.  It just feels like Zalanthas to me in a way Tuluk never did.  That and I love the murder, corruption and betrayal being so in your face.  The North is a much nicer area if you want to play an independent ranger or merchant but the South is where it really feels like I'm playing on a harsh desert world that is dying.

I think that everyone haniging out in the bards barrel isn't that great - you obviously can't close it from one day to another, but it still seems to be too much in the center of attention. Why would everyone decide to hang out in the northerners bar anyway? Middle class removing from the list..

I'd really, really like to see the pbase divided between the traders and the gaj instead of the barrel and the gaj.

People tend not to hang out in the Trader's because it's a nobles tavern for people who have business with the nobility.  People can cut loose in the Barrel and dance, listen to music, get smashed and have a fun time without worrying about offending Lord Borsail and his elite bodyguards.

Personally I think the Barrel is close to perfect for what PCs need out of a tavern.  It's dirty, it's grimy but it has enough class to it that business can get done there.  It can realistically hold patrons of all walks of life though obviously 'rinthers and magickers will be scorned and nobles and templars laughed at if they spend too much time slumming it.  And it had enough private rooms to make it a hub of private business and gambling as well.

Barrel love.

[Intrepid]

Some things I think need to be changed to make Allanak better:

- Documentation: We're already working on this.

- SimRinth: Halaster will get to this when he has time.

- Downgrading The Barrel: People go there because it's better made than The Gaj and The Trader's Inn.  It's also vague enough in purpose that it's basically the "non-noble's tavern".  Magickers can go there, elves can go there, Byn can go there, merchants can go there, etc. and not feel out of place.  There is no incentive for anyone but the upper classes to visit another place, so The Barrel gets it all.

- Upgrading The Gaj: It needs to be more like a bloodsports bar.  Maybe adding contests for money to the bar would be good idea, or having announcers regularly tell the results of the latest arena match.  Make it the feel like the main commoner tavern and it will become exactly that.

- Upgrading The Trader's Inn: Why are casinos in a grubby place like The Barrel anyway?  Why wouldn't they be in an upper crust establishment where nobles might spend their sid?  The Traders should be catering to the upper classes and making them feel special.

- Too many noble houses: I would like to see noble houses with more functions tied directly to the city.  Oash, for example, is listed as dealing with the merchant houses.  Why?  When has any other noble house failed to deal with the merchants without or without Oash's consent?  Why are Valika, Kasix and Sath seperate houses from the existing ones?  Borsail can do Kasix's work, Oash can do Valika's and Sath's, Tor and Fale could be given more teeth and become more worthy of the title of noble if given half the chance.  Jal and Rennik are excellent examples of the wide range of influence and duties noble houses should have.  Unfortunately, it seems to get diluted the higher up in rank you go.  If I were a Borsail noble, I would have crushed Kasix to goo by now.  If I were Oash, I'd be scared to death of losing my place in the hierarchy because I was seen as just that useless.

- Prissy merchants: I brought this up in another thread, but I'll briefly mention it again: Merchants are not nobles.  I totally understand why nobles need to keep an honorable face and not hire magickers or underhanded critters, but merchants?  Like Xygax said, this is something a recruiter needs to ask about and not assume.  Stop acting prissy and more like the ambitious motherfucker you really are.

- Districts: I would like to see at least one of the nonhuman races get a portion of the city.  At the moment, eastside has an elven population, but it's not what we would call an elven environment by far.  Elven markets and a sense of alternative culture are something we've never really seen in this game for elves and dwarves.  Obviously, this won't work with half-giants--they have to adopt a culture and can't make one on their own.  Elves and dwarves, however, have some leeway for diversity.

- Details: The design of the brickwork, the stones on the road, etc.  We have a lot of this already, but I would just like to see more of it.

Anyway, I'm done babbling now.

[Hymwen]

I'm pretty much satisfied with everything but the 'rinth. I agree with many of the above poster, but I think the 'rinth is the only thing that desperately needs improvement. For a place where you're meant to spend the vast majority of your time (as a 'rinther), that place sure is sad. In a bad way. Make it sad in the right way.

[EvilRoeSlade]

...and the Barrel is permanently full of elves, magickers, northerners and such.

If that's the impression that you get, then it's only because those are the people that are supposed to be hanging around in the Bard's Barrel.  If you don't feel comfortable hanging out with elves, northerners, criminals, and perhaps even the occasional magicker, then you shouldn't hang out in the Barrel.

[Angela Christine]

I think that everyone haniging out in the bards barrel isn't that great - you obviously can't close it from one day to another, but it still seems to be too much in the center of attention. Why would everyone decide to hang out in the northerners bar anyway? Middle class removing from the list..

I'd really, really like to see the pbase divided between the traders and the gaj instead of the barrel and the gaj.

The circle is complete.  http://www.armageddon.org/HyperNews/get/general-archive2001/1152/1/1/3.html

People hang out at the Gaj too much, more people should go to the Barrel.
[Time passes.]
People hang out at the Barrel too much, more people should to the Gaj.

[moab]

AC, that was an awesome recovery.

[Ghost]

Alright, about the Arena games:

I think every IC month (nearly two weeks IRL) there can be arena games.  You can sign your name there to an NPC for the next arena games and anyone checking "list" can see who is going to be in the next game.  The matches can be decided by the PC templars at the day of the games.  So if you want to match someone badly, you might want to convince(!) your templar about it.  The games are supposed to be non-deadly but accidents(!) can happen.  And anybody, who signs up but does not show up, will have a mild punishment from the templarate (probably some fee for stupidity).

In case someone just wants to cheat by putting a fake name or someone else's name, the NPC lists the applying character's sdesc.

Also, in the stands, there can be automated bets the PCs can bet on.  Also, PCs can play bets as they like.  The games can be designed by the PC templars.  The simplest can be matching pairs, or a free for all, or stand against the beast hordes.  Signing up to the games would be free, and if you win you earn a small fee.  (In addition, you can earn a portion of the bets on your match as well.)

I got this much at the moment.  If I get more ideas I will add them up here.

[Ghost]

Another idea about taverns, (especially for Gaj):

I would like to see a PC running the Gaj tavern.  It could work like, when the PC logs in, he can order the NPC bartender to go to the backroom and he takes control.  

This can help a lot for PC interaction, imagine actually -hearing- the rumors from the person serving the drinks.  He can tell you about the rumors depending on how much you drink each day, and he can give you discount, he can give you work etc.  He can put certain games each month, and keep the tavern alive.  He can add dart games, wrestling contests, arm wrestling contests, who can beat more bards contests, drinking contests...etc.

The role will be purely mundane, and will open more job options and interaction environment for the playerbase.  The IC reason for putting an aditional bartender will be, well, since the bartender is not really staying there up all day and night, and sleeping sometimes, it is already in there are different bartenders.  And if the PC retires, we can always say the owner of the tavern (I am assuming the bartender and the owner are different people) was not happy with the previous one and hired someone else.

This can also be in for Tuluk as well.  But I think Gaj would make an excellent PC run tavern.

[Stroker]

You should send scripts of arena fights to Sanvean; that will bring it to life, at the very least.  

I am against the arena idea proposed by The7DeadlyVenomz.... unless the following is implemented as well:
-The competitor cannot choose his/her opponent.
-The competitor cannot flee to safety if unable to win (that means, if you're not up to it, you die).
It shouldn't be a place where you can go to power-anything, it should be a place that you would -never- want to see from anywhere, but the stands.

Semper Pax,

Dirr

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Unlike Dirr, whom I am glad to see back in action on the forums and with whom I am pleased to disagree with again , I think the Arena Games would be something that people in Allanak might volunteer to participate in as a life-style. The fame and fortune that could follow strings of wins would entice anyone.

I do agree with Dirr, though, as far as his first two points go. If you go in, you live, or you die. And you can not pick your opponent. I would like to see the script that governs the Games check on a few stats and skills for you, and give you a foe that doesn't completely outclass you.

For example, a newbie Gladiator should face anything from a 'Rinth prisoner to a weak gith. A moderately skilled fighter would face anything from a spider to a mantis. And master fighters would end up facing anything from a Mekillot to an anakore.

This way, the fights would tend to actually be worth watching.

[jhunter]

The one thing that bugs me about Allanak is the Labyrinth. It doesn't feel like it was ever a part of the city in times past. It feels like it was constructed for no other purpose than to be a maze. It needs more other things besides the very few places that make it feel populated and lived in to flush it out. Also, more of a variety of npcs besides the "figure in a dark hooded cloak" that dominates the place.

A long time ago, (during the days when muls weren't just slaves and pcs started in the upstairs of the Trader's, I think) the Labyrinth felt like the slums of the city and was more believable. It was changed since that time and it is somewhere that Ihave no desire to play anymore because it doesn't immerse me into the gameworld. Just about every other part of the gameworld feels more real than the Labyrinth.

[Barzalene]

The one thing that bugs me about Allanak is the Labyrinth. It doesn't feel like it was ever a part of the city in times past. It feels like it was constructed for no other purpose than to be a maze. It needs more other things besides the very few places that make it feel populated and lived in to flush it out. Also, more of a variety of npcs besides the "figure in a dark hooded cloak" that dominates the place.

A long time ago, (during the days when muls weren't just slaves and pcs started in the upstairs of the Trader's, I think) the Labyrinth felt like the slums of the city and was more believable. It was changed since that time and it is somewhere that Ihave no desire to play anymore because it doesn't immerse me into the gameworld. Just about every other part of the gameworld feels more real than the Labyrinth.

Just curious if you think this is societal, or if's the walls that have been constructed since?

[jhunter]

The one thing that bugs me about Allanak is the Labyrinth. It doesn't feel like it was ever a part of the city in times past. It feels like it was constructed for no other purpose than to be a maze. It needs more other things besides the very few places that make it feel populated and lived in to flush it out. Also, more of a variety of npcs besides the "figure in a dark hooded cloak" that dominates the place.

A long time ago, (during the days when muls weren't just slaves and pcs started in the upstairs of the Trader's, I think) the Labyrinth felt like the slums of the city and was more believable. It was changed since that time and it is somewhere that Ihave no desire to play anymore because it doesn't immerse me into the gameworld. Just about every other part of the gameworld feels more real than the Labyrinth.

Just curious if you think this is societal, or if's the walls that have been constructed since?

I think both contribute to it in their own ways. The construction of it doesn't seem like part of -any- city, run-down or not. (Or that it ever really was part of a city at all.)
There should be more variety of npcs in the Labyrinth and more visible (rather than virtual) appearance of people trying to eek out a living there.

[flaran]

The one thing that bugs me about Allanak is the Labyrinth. It doesn't feel like it was ever a part of the city in times past. It feels like it was constructed for no other purpose than to be a maze. It needs more other things besides the very few places that make it feel populated and lived in to flush it out. Also, more of a variety of npcs besides the "figure in a dark hooded cloak" that dominates the place.

A long time ago, (during the days when muls weren't just slaves and pcs started in the upstairs of the Trader's, I think) the Labyrinth felt like the slums of the city and was more believable. It was changed since that time and it is somewhere that Ihave no desire to play anymore because it doesn't immerse me into the gameworld. Just about every other part of the gameworld feels more real than the Labyrinth.

Just curious if you think this is societal, or if's the walls that have been constructed since?

I think both contribute to it in their own ways. The construction of it doesn't seem like part of -any- city, run-down or not. (Or that it ever really was part of a city at all.)
There should be more variety of npcs in the Labyrinth and more visible (rather than virtual) appearance of people trying to eek out a living there.

All of these figures in dark cloaks also have sdescs.  They just choose to wear those cloaks because it makes them inconspicuous because others wear them.

[jhunter]

The one thing that bugs me about Allanak is the Labyrinth. It doesn't feel like it was ever a part of the city in times past. It feels like it was constructed for no other purpose than to be a maze. It needs more other things besides the very few places that make it feel populated and lived in to flush it out. Also, more of a variety of npcs besides the "figure in a dark hooded cloak" that dominates the place.

A long time ago, (during the days when muls weren't just slaves and pcs started in the upstairs of the Trader's, I think) the Labyrinth felt like the slums of the city and was more believable. It was changed since that time and it is somewhere that Ihave no desire to play anymore because it doesn't immerse me into the gameworld. Just about every other part of the gameworld feels more real than the Labyrinth.

Just curious if you think this is societal, or if's the walls that have been constructed since?

I think both contribute to it in their own ways. The construction of it doesn't seem like part of -any- city, run-down or not. (Or that it ever really was part of a city at all.)
There should be more variety of npcs in the Labyrinth and more visible (rather than virtual) appearance of people trying to eek out a living there.

All of these figures in dark cloaks also have sdescs.  They just choose to wear those cloaks because it makes them inconspicuous because others wear them.

So? That doesn't mean it's not cheesy and they are all sort of doing the same thing as far as appearances are concerned.