Crafting Code

[Cegar]

I have a little bit of an issue with the crafting code.

Let's say there is this item, a peanut-encrusted fudge sundae

The ingredients are as follow:

a pile of gooey fudge, some icecream, a peanut, a peanut, a peanut

Well, my character happens to be a master treat-maker, but he can't for the life of him figure out how to make the sundae.

craft fudge icecream peanut

You don't think you can craft anything.

craft fudge icecream peanut peanut

You don't think you can craft anything.

craft fudge fudge icecream peanut

You don't think you can craft anything.


Now, this doesn't make much sense. You have icecream, you have fudge, and you want to make a sundae with peanuts... now, logically, you would realize you just need to add one more peanut to make it, but the code doesn't follow that. Some of the simplest recipes call for one thing, and then four multiples of another. It is fairly ridiculous not to know that you can make something, you just need a little bit more of a certain material.

I propose that instead of seeing, "You don't think you can craft anything."

You receive "You think you can make something, maybe if you had ____"
if you have most of the ingredients already, or if the item is fairly trivial for your skill level. It just seems a bit unrealistic and inane to me in most cases not to know that you need just one more little thing to make something.

[Dan]

Analyze?

[Nusku]

Dan's right. The best way to figure out, codedly, how to make that sundae is to use the analyze skill on one.

[Cegar]

It is hard when no one else can make a peanut-encrusted fudge sundae and no one has made that item because of the weird crafting recipe, even though a walnut-encrusted fudge sundae is a commonly made item.

[Only He Stands There]

Something I've been pondering about. I think it would be very, very helpful to make an addition to the "craft <item"> output.

Example:

You are carrying:
a toolshaft
a red stone shovel-head

>Craft toolshaft shovel-head
You could make a red stone shovel from that.

>Craft toolshaft
With the addition of a red stone shovel-head, you could make a red stone shovel from that.
With the addition of a black stone shovel-head, you could make a black stone shovel from that.
With the addition of a long flint axe-blade, you could make a lumber axe from that.


Etc etc etc. So, it could tell you what you could make with additional materials. I find it extremely annoying to have 40 different items and be able to make 100 recipes from them, but only figuring out 10 different recipes because of all the trial and error involved in "craft rock stone gem," "craft stone gem," "craft rock stone," "craft rock stone board," ad infinitum.

The thread in question is here.

If we did this but put a, say, 50% or 75% penalty on the skill you're using, I think it'd prevent most problems of people "figuring out" how to make a portable plasma launcher from a piece of bone. Maybe require two-thirds of the ingredients, or half the ingredients at least?

I know some recipes can be restricted by clan, so that should keep the worst of the problems at bay alone.


PLEASE?

[Cegar]

Yes, I have seen that thread, couldn't find it in a quick search though. But really, this hurts people most when it deals with a recipe for a simple object that is extremely complicated in an OOC manner, like that sundae.

[Kalden]

I don't see how this would hurt much. It would make playing a merchant much more appealing to me.

[spawnloser]

Learn to invest money in buying an item to figure out how to make it.  It's not entirely realistic that you SHOULD be able to figure out how to make some things without tearing one like it up.  You then, put the one you tore up back together.  Ta da, rationalization r00lz.

Editted to add: While this idea would be cool, I don't think it should be high priority.

[Cegar]

Learn to invest money in buying an item to figure out how to make it.  It's not entirely realistic that you SHOULD be able to figure out how to make some things without tearing one like it up.  You then, put the one you tore up back together.  Ta da, rationalization r00lz.

Editted to add: While this idea would be cool, I don't think it should be high priority.

Again, a lot of items that are craftable are not to be bought anywhere. Simple ones, too. That's why I made this post.

[Larrath]

As a rule of thumb, you should avoid playing a Master Anything if you don't have the knowledge to really be able to do it.  If your character is a master herbalist and you as a player don't know what mul mix or the most common antidotes look like, you're probably getting ahead of yourself.
Start as an apprentice/mediocre herbalist, or cook, or anything.

If it gets to the point where it's just unplayable and if you looked around in-game and talked to, say, three characters that ought to know but don't, you can email the MUD or use the Request tool to ask for some hints.


There are some benefits to obscure crafting recipes.  The primary benefit is that your crafter character might find one obscure recipe and make it theirs.  This is very helpful in a game where you can't personalize the objects you make - if everyone makes spiral-carved incense burners but you know how to make them ivy-carved incense burner, you now have a trade secret.
No, it's not realistic, but it's the only way a trade secret can really exist at the moment.  That's sad and I'm not entirely opposed to the idea in the thread, but I'm also not a vocal supporter.

When I played a jeweller half a million years ago, I knew how to make a certain pendant that nobody else seemed to know how to do, and then I gave it to someone and it was pretty cool.

[Cegar]

As a rule of thumb, you should avoid playing a Master Anything if you don't have the knowledge to really be able to do it.  If your character is a master herbalist and you as a player don't know what mul mix or the most common antidotes look like, you're probably getting ahead of yourself.
Start as an apprentice/mediocre herbalist, or cook, or anything.

If it gets to the point where it's just unplayable and if you looked around in-game and talked to, say, three characters that ought to know but don't, you can email the MUD or use the Request tool to ask for some hints.


There are some benefits to obscure crafting recipes.  The primary benefit is that your crafter character might find one obscure recipe and make it theirs.  This is very helpful in a game where you can't personalize the objects you make - if everyone makes spiral-carved incense burners but you know how to make them ivy-carved incense burner, you now have a trade secret.
No, it's not realistic, but it's the only way a trade secret can really exist at the moment.  That's sad and I'm not entirely opposed to the idea in the thread, but I'm also not a vocal supporter.

When I played a jeweller half a million years ago, I knew how to make a certain pendant that nobody else seemed to know how to do, and then I gave it to someone and it was pretty cool.

Agreed, I really like that too, but sometimes it seems fairly silly. Ah well. I can deal.

[jstorrie]

As a player you shouldn't have to acquire OOC knowledge from previous characters to play another one properly.

I am all for another system of crafting-discovery other than analyzing or just trying to >craft every single ingredient you come across. The current system favours older players and presents unreasonable hurdles to newer players by irrationally obfuscating recipes.

[Vesperas]

I sort of agree with this.  There is a certain skill in game that I havn't the faintest clue how to even work, and yet, its so very easy to start out with it.  

I suppose one fix for this is wishing up and asking for very simple information/recipes that my PC ought to know (if they were playing someone who, say, spent a year in an apprenticeship, to explain having the skill), but I personally do not know how the imms would react to that.

I think that the 'suggestion' thing could be a very beneficial addition to the game for "first timers", if it were implemented with the penalty idea.  You could possibly get fewer reports or no report back at all (low wisdom, maybe?... forgetfulness, denseness, inability to see the obvious), and only when you have MOST of the ingredients already.

[James de Monet]

Another issue that I've come across often in crafting is tools.  How do you know which tool is best?  Sure, some tools tell you what kind of crafting they're for, but others don't. Also, when you have three similar tools, how do you know which one is most suited to what you're doing?  Trial and error and see which produces the most successes?  The failure rate can really throw those kinds of experiments off, though.  And what about materials or projects that are out of the ordinary?

[Kalden]

Bump.