Command: Playtime

[Warclone]

Have playtime as an attribute on every character.

Default would be 'unset'.

set your playtime:
change playtime x
x= 100 characters?

check someone's playtime:
playtime x
x= name/desc i.e. bob or rugged man

EXAMPLE:
Bob types:
change playtime I play between 5-7est and 9-12est.
Jane types:
playtime bob
Jane received:
Bob's playtime:  I play between 5-7est and 9-12est.

This would help soooo much so I dont have to run around asking ppl ooc when I can catch them online.

You could update it as much as you want, so if you know youre going to be on a certain time tomorrow you can change it then (and dont have to tell all your friends OOC or update an ancient board post).

Consensus?

[Cale_Knight]

Neat.

[Malifaxis]

You know, I kinda like this.

I think it would help a lot with coordination and not risk OOC bleed thru of factoids.

[Cale_Knight]

You could even set it up so that you have to add numerical values to pre-set fields, preventing the possible OOC transmission of non-playtime level.

[Morfeus]

Maybe I am too tired, but I do not see much reason for this. You are usually not around every day 5-7pm EST. For arranging meetings you would have to OOC anyway.

[Malifaxis]

This at least provides a target zone of a few hours, as opposed to maybe getting lucky on 1 or 2 of 24.

[Cale_Knight]

You are usually not around every day 5-7pm EST.

Many players are around at roughly the same time every day. Players who don't have regularly scheduled playtimes would simply not fill out the field.

[daedroug]

I like it.

[Morfeus]

You are usually not around every day 5-7pm EST.

Many players are around at roughly the same time every day. Players who don't have regularly scheduled playtimes would simply not fill out the field.

Right, but most probably not 7 days in week. If I will need to meet them, I will still OOC asking if they are going to be on "ThisExactTimeAndDay". I know roughly who is on when because I see them usually in this or that times - I would not use OOC command to check that.

Anyway, I am one of these who have absolute irregular playing times, therefore I might be biased.

[Anonymous]

The ONE problem with this....

playtime templar foobar
Templar foobar plays between 5-7pm EST.

time
it is 4pm EST.

sneak templar estate
hide
wield knife
wait

time
it is 5pm EST

templar foobar has entered the world of Zalanthas.
backstab templar

[daedroug]

i think thats pushing it a bit much,
#1 it obviously wouldn't be that exact
#2 it doesn't say where they log in
#3 it'd be most likely be a place with guards unless it's in the rinth or wilderness

[Akaramu]

I like.

What if the playtime command only worked on clan members? Less potential for abuse. Or maybe it would only work for PCs who have consented each other for the info to be displayed.

On the other hand, most people play pretty regularly and assassins with a target most likely already do quite a bit of observation before they hit, they could quite easily figure out regular playtimes ingame. The OOC knowledge could already be abused as it is.

[John]

Right, but most probably not 7 days in week.

This isn't to say when they will be on, but when they're likely to be on. Something all clans (that I've been in anyway) currently do.

If I will need to meet them, I will still OOC asking if they are going to be on "ThisExactTimeAndDay".

Many meetings do not have to be exact time X, but just next time you both bump into each other. But it can be extremely frustrating looking for them all day long during time they're not likely to be on, and give up just as it comes to the time they're likely to be on.

The ONE problem with this....

playtime templar foobar
Templar foobar plays between 5-7pm EST.

time
it is 4pm EST.

sneak templar estate
hide
wield knife
wait

time
it is 5pm EST

templar foobar has entered the world of Zalanthas.
backstab templar

This can already be done (whether you're an ex-clannie or if you just happen to notice they tend to be around during times A to C). Granted the command will make it easier, so it's a case of whether or not the ease outweighs the abuse. But it doesn't allow any unique abuse (as in new ways to abuse the game, only making current ways easier).

[Anonymous]

Fair enough. Just wanted to put it out there.

[Larrath]

There is a possible problem where people could use the information to peg player to character, but maybe keeping the information to a certain form could help there.

Suppose I played 9 pm to 6 am EST, which I doubt many other players share, people could immediately see who I am.  It can even be used to identify characters - "playtime blur" and compare it later.

Just something to consider.  If the above problem can be made a non-issue then I'd be thrilled to have this command implemented.

[Hymwen]

Great idea! Maybe make it sort of vague, say divide the day into four chunks and you pick one which you can most often be caught in, to avoid people trying to find out which player is playing that character, or who their previous characters were.

Code Select Expand

> playtime
Pick one of these. Players caught outside of their chosen time will be shot. All times are in EST:
8am-2pm
2pm-8pm
8pm-2am
2am-8am
Have you VOTED today?

> You are a little thirsty.

[Dakkon Black]

The ONE problem with this....

playtime templar foobar
Templar foobar plays between 5-7pm EST.

time
it is 4pm EST.

sneak templar estate
hide
wield knife
wait

time
it is 5pm EST

I actually think this is the best part about this. You -should- be able to realistically find out where Templar X sleeps ICly, and since it's only an OOC factor that causes Templar X to not wake up there every morning, it's an OOC solution that lets the assasins know what mornings he will. And even then it's not certain, he might have crashed at a buddy's house, or in the wagon, etc.

Brilliant Idea I think, though for alot of people, myself included, I rarely know when I'll get the time to play, it should still be pretty usefull I think.

[Yokunama]

You are usually not around every day 5-7pm EST.

Many players are around at roughly the same time every day. Players who don't have regularly scheduled playtimes would simply not fill out the field.

Why would the staff put in the time and effort for a command that everyone is not going to use?

I'd rather have them create something that would better the gameworld.

[Anonymous]

Why would the staff put in the time and effort for a command that everyone is not going to use?

I'd rather have them create something that would better the gameworld.

[Desertman (not logged in)]

I see no problems with this command other than the vast "what if" problems that affect every single command in the game. Sure all commands all have "what if" scenarios that "might" affect them.


This is a good idea. I like it.

[Anonymous]

I admit that given the development in this thread it's a good idea, too.

But I can think of other things that would be cool and would make the game more fun to play that I would rather see implemented. -shrugs-

YMMV, of course.

[Eternal]

I dislike it for many reasons mentioned above.

1. It tells people when you -aren't- likely to be around.
2. It can easily link players to characters.
3. It's an ooc command... in an ic game.
4. It's nothing that can't be posted on a clan board if someone -needs- to share, without telling the rest of the populace.

Lord Templar Hard Nose thinks:
"Your mileage may vary... what's a mile...?"

[John]

Why would the staff put in the time and effort for a command that everyone is not going to use?

Same reason they put in spells......  :? There are -tons- of things in the game that not everyone uses. Some people refuse to be in clans for example, so any clan-only crafting items are pointless for them.

The staff have the GDB and some people refuse to use the GDB.

It's an ooc command... in an ic game.

I disagree as by that logic we should take away:
* Gone
* OOC
* Keyword
* listen status

As they're all OOC commands in an IC game.

4. It's nothing that can't be posted on a clan board if someone -needs- to share, without telling the rest of the populace.

And this is the most peculiar logic of all (IMO). Let's give clan players an OOC advantage over everyone else, including family members, work partners, assassins and thieves.

Suppose I played 9 pm to 6 am EST, which I doubt many other players share, people could immediately see who I am.  It can even be used to identify characters - "playtime blur" and compare it later.

Can already happen for any off-peak players. It isn't unusual for off-peak players to get to know some of someone's login times. If that character stops logging in and someone else just happens to start logging in at the same time as the previous person, it's pretty easy to work out they're the same person. So while this command will make it easier to guess who the player behind a character is, it doesn't introduce a new method of abuse to the game.

[Anonymous]

4. It's nothing that can't be posted on a clan board if someone -needs- to share, without telling the rest of the populace.

And this is the most peculiar logic of all (IMO). Let's give clan players an OOC advantage over everyone else, including family members, work partners, assassins and thieves.

I think this is the most compelling argument I've seen yet, actually. However, what happens when you and another player overlap for a couple of hours?

Ordinarily, Master Fancypants would offer you a job, some pay, and a task to do. But, he looks at your playtime and realizes that you don't play when he plays normally, and figures OOCly that would be too much of a pain, so he passes you over, instead.

Things like that are really more of a concern to me, although I acknowledge the problem. I really really do.

[Hymwen]

Ordinarily, Master Fancypants would offer you a job, some pay, and a task to do. But, he looks at your playtime and realizes that you don't play when he plays normally, and figures OOCly that would be too much of a pain, so he passes you over, instead.

I get your point and agree somewhat, but is it a better solution for Master Fancypants to hire you and then never be around when you are? It's a tough problem because judging IC actions based on OOC reasons is inherently bad, but so is sacrificing fun and playability just to keep it strictly IC and realistic when it can be avoided. I'm assuming neither you nor Master Fancypants actually want to work together with someone who they never see.

[Anonymous]

Ordinarily, Master Fancypants would offer you a job, some pay, and a task to do. But, he looks at your playtime and realizes that you don't play when he plays normally, and figures OOCly that would be too much of a pain, so he passes you over, instead.

I get your point and agree somewhat, but is it a better solution for Master Fancypants to hire you and then never be around when you are?

I acknowledge this, too. Living it. Everyone I play with logs in an hour before I go to bed. Suxor. BUT - This has one distinct advantage over not being where I am. I am a member of a superstructure where I would ordinarily not be. So, in the situation where I would normally be completely alone with no one to play with anyway, I have staff and resources that I can call upon, regardless of the PC representation during my login hours.

i.e. I am no longer Joe Schmuck the crafter, I am now Joe Schmuck, a crafter of Master Fancypants' house and can use that to carve out my own fame with the other people who play during the same hours as me.

It depends on the situation, really. My rule of thumb for clans, though, has always been to force a second encounter if at all possible. That usually proves that we are able to overlap more than once by chance, and it gives me the chance to quickly hit the field and see if there's anything I like better.

[Morgenes]

My main issue with this is it only gives you the information when you DON'T need it.  You will only be able to see it if the person is already logged in.  When you're really gonna need it is when you're sitting around waiting for Lord Fancypants to log in.  Unless you keep your own logs of every 'playtime' you've done for every player, IMO something like posting your playtimes on the Clan boards is a much more preferable solution.

[Malken]

It has it's good and bad sides.. As an example, I once played for a few extra hours one night, even tho I never play this late usually. Well, my character met a character he hadn't met before, probably because he never plays when that character plays as well.

Anyway, this character of mine and that other character ended up in a relationship that night.. Well, let's just say that trying to see that other character in the next few days was a -real- pain for me.. I had to start going to bed later than usual.

So.. If I had been able to see this other character's playtime and realize that I would never see her again, deep inside I would probably have tried to avoid a relationship with her.. Would that have been a good thing or a bad thing? ICly, it would have been bad, but for me, as a player, it would have been good..

[Cyrian20]

I think it's a given I like to play the devil's advocate so here are two issues I
worry about.

The first Larrath brought up with linking pc's to players. Sometimes I could
care less and there are times when I want no one to know anything.

The second which is a big issue for me, what about sporadic playing times.
I will never fit into the range I input, I never know when I will login or logout.

Also you may find people not including someone in quests or plots because
they are off-peak, we have a hard enough time as it is please don't add
something that will push us away even more.

Now as for my personal opinion I think OOC is better in this situation, I know
that seems a cop out like the discussions for the consent flag. In this situation
though I feel it is the best route.


:derail of DOOMZ!:

As a quick derail the above sentence gave me an idea for the discussions
about the consent flag. People argued it should use ooc because what if
you had a bad day and forgot to turn off your violent torture flag. To this
I say perhaps every time you login the consent reverts to undeclared, that
way when you login you have to turn on the ones you are comfortable with. Otherwise people can just ask ooc. (make it twinky and a reportable
incident if people are checking you in the tavern, it should be a cmd used just
as your about to do the act, if it says no you ooc and fade.)

[Yokunama]

Why would the staff put in the time and effort for a command that everyone is not going to use?

Same reason they put in spells......  :? There are -tons- of things in the game that not everyone uses. Some people refuse to be in clans for example, so any clan-only crafting items are pointless for them.

The staff have the GDB and some people refuse to use the GDB.

Who, with the ability to cast them, doesn't use spells?

The GDB has played a role in helping improve the game in both OOC and IC barriers. Even though it is not something that everyone uses, it is a very important part of the game itself.

I still think this idea is useless and full of bad ideas.

[Akaramu]

My main issue with this is it only gives you the information when you DON'T need it.  You will only be able to see it if the person is already logged in.  When you're really gonna need it is when you're sitting around waiting for Lord Fancypants to log in.  Unless you keep your own logs of every 'playtime' you've done for every player, IMO something like posting your playtimes on the Clan boards is a much more preferable solution.

How about this:

Players can define 'playtime' as an option within their account menu. Then, if Salarri Bob really needs to deliver the fancy new sword to lord templar Hard nose,  he can send a request over the awesome request tool. The next time Lord templar Hard Nose logs into his account, he will be asked if he wants to consent to his playtime being send to Salarri Bob in email. No account names are revealed. If the request comes from a PC who does not have any sort of obvious reason to meet lord templar Hard Nose, he can just decline it.

Problem solved!  

[Cyrian20]

How about this:

Players can define 'playtime' as an option within their account menu. Then, if Salarri Bob really needs to deliver the fancy new sword to lord templar Hard nose,  he can send a request over the awesome request tool. The next time Lord templar Hard Nose logs into his account, he will be asked if he wants to consent to his playtime being send to Salarri Bob in email. No account names are revealed. If the request comes from a PC who does not have any sort of obvious reason to meet lord templar Hard Nose, he can just decline it.

Problem solved!  

Now we are getting somewhere, I would like to see the discussion taking a turn in this direction, any ideas how this could be made less of a hassle to the staff? Requests can take a while as it is already because they have to fit it into their already time constrained schedules.

[spawnloser]

If it's not automated, I don't want it, first off...

Second, if it is automated, it would be difficult to ensure that you are targetting the right person, if that person is not logged in in front of you.

Third, if that person is logged in and right there in front of you, you don't need to use this function.

[Anonymous]

Players can define 'playtime' as an option within their account menu. Then, if Salarri Bob really needs to deliver the fancy new sword to lord templar Hard nose,  he can send a request over the awesome request tool. The next time Lord templar Hard Nose logs into his account, he will be asked if he wants to consent to his playtime being send to Salarri Bob in email. No account names are revealed. If the request comes from a PC who does not have any sort of obvious reason to meet lord templar Hard Nose, he can just decline it.

I like the thinking - but I'd like to know how this differs from:

Code Select Expand


Lord Templar Hardnose tells Salarri Bob, in sirihish:
   "I want a sword. Big and long and manly. Like a pirate."

Salarri Bob tells Lord Templar Hardnose, in sirihish:
   "Great. I know just the thing. It will take some time for our crafters to produce such an item. Would you be amenable to meeting me in three week's time, around this time of the week? I will be able to let you know if it is finished and if so, deliver it to you."

Lord Templar Hardnose tells Salarri Bob, in sirihish:
  "I will be on a sensitive mission at that time. But I will check with you in four weeks around this time of the week if you think you can meet then."

four RL days pass, it's about the same RL time as before. Salarri Bob and Lord Templar Hardnose are both logged in. One contacts the other to check the status. If the sword is ready, they set a meeting place and close the deal. If the sword is not ready, they reschedule.


Or even:

Code Select Expand


Salarri Bob tells PC militia guy A:
  "Hey, you seen hardnose? I've got a sword for him."

PC militia guy A tells Bob:
  "Nope. He must be on mission. I usually see him about this time of week, though. I'll tell him you're looking for him."

Salarri Bob thanks PC militia guy, then goes and talks to the other merchant:
  "Hey, other merchant, how's it hanging? Look, if you see Hardnose before I do, will you let him know that I have a sword for him? I'm going to be out of the citystate next week, but I should be back by this time the following week. Thanks."

etc.


I mean, I know that it requires a lot more swinging back and forth - and I've done it both ICly and OOCly for playing times, but doing it ICly causes more RP inadvertently or otherwise. I'd almost rather see the code effort put into a webpage tool that lets you put in an RL date and time and get an IC date and time (and vice versa) to assist people with orchestrating this type of event ICly.

[John]

Who, with the ability to cast them, doesn't use spells?

*Raises hand*

I still think this idea is useless and full of bad ideas.

That's a valid opinion. However it is different to "Only some people will use this therefore it's a bad idea."

Players can define 'playtime' as an option within their account menu. Then, if Salarri Bob really needs to deliver the fancy new sword to lord templar Hard nose,  he can send a request over the awesome request tool. The next time Lord templar Hard Nose logs into his account, he will be asked if he wants to consent to his playtime being send to Salarri Bob in email. No account names are revealed. If the request comes from a PC who does not have any sort of obvious reason to meet lord templar Hard Nose, he can just decline it.

Problem solved!  

It is limited in that assassins and thieves won't be able to use it. A better idea may be that players can define it in their account menu, and the staff will send it along to anyone who asks for it. If you only want certain people knowing you're playing times, don't use the option.

Although this has the bad side effect in that it increases the workload for staff. If it's automated, how do players target someone? If it's via name, then aliases are useless. If it's keyword, the likelihood of getting the wrong person increases a lot.

Third, if that person is logged in and right there in front of you, you don't need to use this function.

You do for any subsequent meetings. I'll often see someone once, and then never see them again for weeks. It could be they're not logging in, or it could be that one of us was playing outside of our normal playing time.

[spawnloser]

In response to your response to my paraphrasing of staff comment, John...

Davien had a wonderful suggestion, don't make plans on seeing a character a second time until you see them a second time...or a third.  Make sure you're going to see the person again before wrapping yourself up in needing that person.

[Aldiel]

Neat.

Although, let's hope the grunts don't start assess when their superiors are going to be on so that they can screw around all the time they are not.

However, I don't think this will be a problem since most clans already do threads for this.

I say cool idea.  Props if a imm likes it too and wants to take it on.

[Cale_Knight]

As it is, we already use clan boards to post playing times.

If you're in a position where you're worried about an assassin sneaking into your estate and omgozoring you, just don't use the command. Simple as pie.

[Anonymous]

The concern that a "clan board" gives an advantage in this regard over unclanned characters is legitimate and should not be overlooked.

[spawnloser]

On this one, Davien, I have to disagree.  People that don't have a gigantic organization backing them SHOULD be disadvantaged.

I say this having played just as many if not more unclanned characters than clanned.

[Warclone]

Davien had a wonderful suggestion, don't make plans on seeing a character a second time until you see them a second time...or a third.  Make sure you're going to see the person again before wrapping yourself up in needing that person.

We all know how status quo works.  It's my opinion that this command will make the game more enjoyable for more people.

FACT: It is OOC and unrealistic that player's characters are away from what they are supposed to be doing for so long.  The frequency of occurance of "random shit" that "just happens" to draw you away for days upon days of IC time is only the slight lesser of two evils.

This command mitigates the above fact by allowing things to happen moreso as if characters are around as often as it should be.

[Anonymous]

On this one, Davien, I have to disagree.  People that don't have a gigantic organization backing them SHOULD be disadvantaged.

I would agree that people who don't have an organization backing them should be disadvantaged from an IC perspective, but I don't think there's any reason that disadvantaging them from an OOC perspective is justified.

[Yokunama]

Why would the staff put in the time and effort for a command that everyone is not going to use?

Same reason they put in spells......  :? There are -tons- of things in the game that not everyone uses. Some people refuse to be in clans for example, so any clan-only crafting items are pointless for them.

Spells, clans, and the --tons-- things that you mentioned that are not used, do contribute greatly to the majority of the game and its roleplay. Even if they are not being used, they still play a big part in Armageddon as a whole. Mind you, the HRPT is a good example of those clans and magicks at work.

I still think this idea is useless and full of bad ideas.

That's a valid opinion. However it is different to "Only some people will use this therefore it's a bad idea."

Heres a couple of other reasons as to why it is not a good idea:

My main issue with this is it only gives you the information when you DON'T need it.

You are usually not around every day 5-7pm EST.

I am sure there are more that could be added to the list.

[Akaramu]

As it is, we already use clan boards to post playing times.

I thought it was clear that we were talking for a solution for non-clanmembers. :roll:

Playing times are something entirely OOC, and any attempts to express them in IC terms are crude and possibly misleading at best. Realistically, there should be NPCs and VNPCs around who can help arrange a meeting time. But how would you explain 'I am away until the 17th of june, and from then on I can only play 3 hours over noon' in IC terms?

The concern that a "clan board" gives an advantage in this regard over unclanned characters is legitimate and should not be overlooked.

Exactly. My suggestion would balance things out.

I dont see why thieves and assassins would not be able to use this... they dont have to be obvious about their true profession. If Amos the halfbreed was a known assassin, lord Templar Hard Nose's VNPC entourage would not help him set up a meeting with the lord templar.

[Cegar]

Isn't this why important people hire aids?

[Akaramu]

Isn't this why important people hire aids?

Aides generally play when their leader is around, and only a few of them can play more than say 3-5 hours a day.

20any ideas how this could be made less of a hassle to the staff? Requests can take a while as it is already because they have to fit it into their already time constrained schedules.

I guess it could be made an automated process fairly easily.

[John]

Spells, clans, and the --tons-- things that you mentioned that are not used, do contribute greatly to the majority of the game and its roleplay. Even if they are not being used, they still play a big part in Armageddon as a whole. Mind you, the HRPT is a good example of those clans and magicks at work.

I think that a command such as this would contribute something to the game. Depending on the implementation, depends on how much effort it is to implement and use, which depends on whether or not it's worth it. Although there are definitely concerns as you mentioned.

[spawnloser]

Thing is, John, I don't think it will add anything that simple observation doesn't.  For people to use their senses and brains doesn't take much coding time...normally.

[John]

Thing is, John, I don't think it will add anything that simple observation doesn't.  For people to use their senses and brains doesn't take much coding time...normally.

If that were the case we wouldn't need such threads on the clan forums. We'd just need clannies to use common sense and brains. Or are all clannies exempt from such a need?

[Eternal]

I'll change my vote on one condition...

I as the character/player get to choose who can see my playtime.

Lord Templar Hard Nose eyes you morbidly.

[Delirium]

Lord Templar Hard Nose eyes you morbidly.

They took out 'consider'.  It broke my little heart.

[Akaramu]

I'll change my vote on one condition...

I as the character/player get to choose who can see my playtime.

Lord Templar Hard Nose eyes you morbidly.

What do you think of my solution?

And no, common sense and observation dont work at all if your usual playtime and someone else's playtime just dont match. I can go out of my way to get on at an unusual (for me) time to proceed some important roleplay, but I really dont want to go out of my way constantly just for trial and error. Its a GAME.

[Eternal]

How about this:

Players can define 'playtime' as an option within their account menu. Then, if Salarri Bob really needs to deliver the fancy new sword to lord templar Hard nose,  he can send a request over the awesome request tool. The next time Lord templar Hard Nose logs into his account, he will be asked if he wants to consent to his playtime being send to Salarri Bob in email. No account names are revealed.

It has merit.  (Congratulations.)  Perhaps this could be something set to an account at the basic login (before you connect to your character).  Then, if you feel someone else needs to know, you could 'allow' <character> to access your playtimes.  If this is to be in place, the request tool isn't the best place for it, as anything that adds to administrative duties of the Staff without greatly enhancing the game for either them or us isn't efficient.

It does still seem to be something that could be accomplished through a clan thread, or a discreet ooc, just as easily.  I haven't yet seen a real use for it, beyond the potential merchant/templar interaction mentioned above... but then, it's not my cup of Wrath.  (Coding.)

Lord Templar Hard Nose applauds your ingenuity, now sell it.