Consent

[Cenghiz]

I don't understand what's the big deal with 'OOC Consent given? - OOC Sure/Nah.' This does ruin the scene? Then won't checking the preferences ruin the scene too? It's OOC you know. Same thing.

I don't want this feature at all. What if there's someone who doesn't want to see torture with fire but is OK with being whipped to death? So we'll add a whip_torture flag and a fire_torture flag? Also, for example, I can afford being raped while I play a female or being raped by a woman. But I'm homophobiac. So I don't want to have any type of homosexual sex scene graphical because I find it gross for my taste. SO we need to add homosexual_sex and heterosexual_sex flags, too. Then also homosexual_rape and heterosexual_rape.. That will keep on.. cuddler_torture, crushing_torture, piercing_torture, dildo_rape :oops: ....

I don't want 87 consent flags.. I want to ask and be asked instead with the OOC command.

[X-D]

It does break the scene.

I've been in enough to know.

And really, I simply don't see a problem with the flag, specialy if the people who don't like it can simply toggle it to no or ask.

Code Select Expand

consent room
female elf flagged consent torture yes, consent rape yes.
male dwarf consent torture yes, consent rape no.

Fine, we can continue without a scene break with graphic torture not involving sex.

Code Select Expand

consent room
female elf flagged consent ask.
male dwarf flagged consent torture yes, consent rape yes


At this point you need to ask, no change from now, and to the people who don't want to be giving away player information, guess what, still the same as now.
But at least you may get lucky and not have to break a scene asking, I'd be happy for that chance, no matter how small.

[Briarfox]

I have to say I agree with those who do -not- like this idea. My reasoning is my consent changes with those around me. I would never -ever- consent to anything explicit or brutal with a stranger because you never know if the other person is even of age. I realize there are players on the mud under the age of 18 but I do also realize that even in role-playing, anything of a sexual nature with someone beneath that line is very illegal in some states and is punishable by law.

I do not see how asking for consent OOC would alter the mood of the moment ICly unless there was unhealthy boundary between character and player. When you go OOC, your character and the moment they are in are on hold, what you do/say/ask OOCly isn't going to change a thing ICly. So I do not see how attempting to use the argument of going OOCly to ask consent would be fruitful or even tangible in this discussion.

[jcarter]

Some day, cops will be posing as the busty, honey-haired underage girl.

And then this will happen:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=knqkSFUqZ84

I AM A HIGHLY SKILLED TEMPLAR THAT GAVE AN ORDER

[Empress]

I'm not completely against the idea, but I think having to OOC works better.  I was recently involved in a torture scene where I had to give my consent, and  I agreed to it thinking it wasn't even really necessary to ask, but by the end I was more horrified than I have ever been after watching any movie.  I think by the end of it I was almost crying.  If I had to do it all over again, I don't think I could take that scene and I would not give my concent.  I could probably handle 90% of all torture scenes but I would never agree to that situation again.

[John]

I'm not completely against the idea, but I think having to OOC works better.  I was recently involved in a torture scene where I had to give my consent, and  I agreed to it thinking it wasn't even really necessary to ask, but by the end I was more horrified than I have ever been after watching any movie.  I think by the end of it I was almost crying.  If I had to do it all over again, I don't think I could take that scene and I would not give my concent.  I could probably handle 90% of all torture scenes but I would never agree to that situation again.

I'm sure you know but just to remind people, you can OOC at any time "okay, a bit too much for me. Can we fade?"

Just thought I'd remind people.

[Cenghiz]

I met with one who was late at saying 'OOC Let's fade...' and had to live the scene. As I said, I never had such emotional scars and I feel good with nearly anything. But as I observed, usually the victim is in no condition to say "OOC Too much, fade.".. I also obserevd the experience, even words on the screen may be emotionally wrecking for the victim.

It happens even when consent was already given. I don't want anything making it happen more, not for myself, but for the others.

Maybe 'OOC Consent?' does ruin the scene for some -What a lack of concentration?- but the other way may ruin a day/a few days of the victim with an emotional trauma.

Again I want to comment, since I myself cannot understand why such scenes maybe hurtful but it's only because I'm an emotionless immoral bastard. I know a lot of people asking for consent flags also do not understand. Yes, we do not understand, but we can symphatize -help me with the spelling damnit- .

The magickally controlled creature made up of fire says, out of character:
    - "I give no consent."

[John]

I met with one who was late at saying 'OOC Let's fade...' and had to live the scene. As I said, I never had such emotional scars and I feel good with nearly anything. But as I observed, usually the victim is in no condition to say "OOC Too much, fade."

AFAIK no matter what you can always OOC and have it echoed to everyone in the room (exception being when getting thrown in a room no-one else is in, but AFAIK there's no graphic torture scripts, so you'll be getting no bad echoes anyway). If you find a state that you can't OOC, bug it and wish up.

[Nao]

Most of these problems could be circumfered by adding an 'ask' flag instead of the 'yes/no' options, you get 'yes/no/ask first' options, with asking being the default set.

I still think we're fine as it is, though.

[Cenghiz]

When you're emotionally depressed, you can find it hard to type "OOC I give no consent.", John. Nothing ever distracts OOC and we all know it, thanks for reminding.

What are we arguing already? It won't be done at all, thanks to the imms.

[John]

When you're emotionally depressed, you can find it hard to type "OOC I give no consent.", John.

Aaah okay. I wasn't too sure what you meant. Thanks.

[Gorilla J]

Admittedly, I haven't yet been in a position where any of the consent rules would apply, but I have to say it's one thing about Armageddon I haven't liked from the start.  I despise the fact that, just because it would bother someone OOCly, my character's actions can be forced and my will overruled by another (obviously, I'm talking about the rape thing here).

Really, if it ever happened, and I had another PC in a position of submission where they were at my mercy..if they decided my character's actions for me, and forced that on me, I'd most likely be rather annoyed and simply end their life.

[MorganChaos]

Admittedly, I haven't yet been in a position where any of the consent rules would apply, but I have to say it's one thing about Armageddon I haven't liked from the start.  I despise the fact that, just because it would bother someone OOCly, my character's actions can be forced and my will overruled by another (obviously, I'm talking about the rape thing here).

Really, if it ever happened, and I had another PC in a position of submission where they were at my mercy..if they decided my character's actions for me, and forced that on me, I'd most likely be rather annoyed and simply end their life.

I think you're going to learn not to do this one quickly. You can probably get in trouble for this, killing someone because they didn't give consent. I see absolutely no reason why this wouldn't be the case. It's not a matter of deciding your character's actions, it's a fairly simple matter of what the player wants to deal with. There's plenty of other things you can do besides rape. If push really comes to shove you can probably roleplay that they bribed you out of it and ask the imms for the coin. I'd hope they'd be understanding on something like this.

[Gorilla J]

Admittedly, I haven't yet been in a position where any of the consent rules would apply, but I have to say it's one thing about Armageddon I haven't liked from the start.  I despise the fact that, just because it would bother someone OOCly, my character's actions can be forced and my will overruled by another (obviously, I'm talking about the rape thing here).

Really, if it ever happened, and I had another PC in a position of submission where they were at my mercy..if they decided my character's actions for me, and forced that on me, I'd most likely be rather annoyed and simply end their life.

I think you're going to learn not to do this one quickly. You can probably get in trouble for this, killing someone because they didn't give consent. I see absolutely no reason why this wouldn't be the case. It's not a matter of deciding your character's actions, it's a fairly simple matter of what the player wants to deal with. There's plenty of other things you can do besides rape. If push really comes to shove you can probably roleplay that they bribed you out of it and ask the imms for the coin. I'd hope they'd be understanding on something like this.

In a world like Zalanthas, from what I've seen, if you have someone in a position where you could successfully rape them you could most likely kill them as well, with just as much justification.

[Anonymous]

If having to change your character's behavior to account for the rape rule is that bothersome to you I suggest not making characters with the capacity for rape.  I don't think this is an unreasonable suggestion.

[Gorilla J]

If having to change your character's behavior to account for the rape rule is that bothersome to you I suggest not making characters with the capacity for rape.  I don't think this is an unreasonable suggestion.

I don't think it's any more reasonable to expect me to not want something forced on me than it is to expect the unwilling consent-withholders to sit down and accept what's being forced on them.  Everyone has the right to choose what they want to see; I'm fine with that, and think it's great.  But I dislike having anything forced on me for OOC reasons, as opposed to something coming about because of the IC world.

Eddited because rereading it I can barely understand what I myself wrote: Basically, I don't think it's reasonable to expect the rapist to be forced to change their character because of someone's OOC wishes, yet on the other hand allow the victim to dictate the situation regardless of the other person's OOC wishes.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

Gigantic J wrote:

I don't think it's any more reasonable to expect me to not want something forced on me than it is to expect the unwilling consent-withholders to sit down and accept what's being forced on them.

If you think that's unreasonable, imagine how the person being forced to witness a rape feels.

[MorganChaos]

If having to change your character's behavior to account for the rape rule is that bothersome to you I suggest not making characters with the capacity for rape.  I don't think this is an unreasonable suggestion.

I don't think it's any more reasonable to expect me to not want something forced on me than it is to expect the unwilling consent-withholders to sit down and accept what's being forced on them.  Everyone has the right to choose what they want to see; I'm fine with that, and think it's great.  But I dislike having anything forced on me for OOC reasons, as opposed to something coming about because of the IC world.

Eddited because rereading it I can barely understand what I myself wrote: Basically, I don't think it's reasonable to expect the rapist to be forced to change their character because of someone's OOC wishes, yet on the other hand allow the victim to dictate the situation regardless of the other person's OOC wishes.

I think avoiding creating a character with the capacity for rape is a fine suggestion, and a complete solution to this.

[Gorilla J]

If having to change your character's behavior to account for the rape rule is that bothersome to you I suggest not making characters with the capacity for rape.  I don't think this is an unreasonable suggestion.

I don't think it's any more reasonable to expect me to not want something forced on me than it is to expect the unwilling consent-withholders to sit down and accept what's being forced on them.  Everyone has the right to choose what they want to see; I'm fine with that, and think it's great.  But I dislike having anything forced on me for OOC reasons, as opposed to something coming about because of the IC world.

Eddited because rereading it I can barely understand what I myself wrote: Basically, I don't think it's reasonable to expect the rapist to be forced to change their character because of someone's OOC wishes, yet on the other hand allow the victim to dictate the situation regardless of the other person's OOC wishes.

I think avoiding creating a character with the capacity for rape is a fine suggestion, and a complete solution to this.

Once again, I do not feel it is a fine solution to have me change myself and my characters to accomodate someone who will not afford me (for whatever reasons) the same courtesy.

But, luckily, I don't have any plans on raping anyone.  I'd be pissed if it came up and I was forced to change, but my own inherent morals in the real world would prevent me from allowing any of my characters to, even if the situation called for it.

[Medena]

Really, if it ever happened, and I had another PC in a position of submission where they were at my mercy..if they decided my character's actions for me, and forced that on me, I'd most likely be rather annoyed and simply end their life.

In a world like Zalanthas, from what I've seen, if you have someone in a position where you could successfully rape them you could most likely kill them as well, with just as much justification.

You are new Gorilla J and so I am really trying to say this as nicely as possible.  Good RP'ing doesn't allow for us to do things IC'ly for OOC reasons -- whether this means allowing our character to fall off the Shield Wall because they don't know it is there even though we do or refraining from killing the mean looking warrior just because -we- know he is a newb.  

While it is true that there could be just as much (or as little) IC justfication for killing someone as raping them, this does not hold true if you were doing it for OOC reasons, ie. because they didn't give consent.  There is a certain amount of trust involved with RP'ing. I trust you to stay in character, you trust me to do likewise. There is also a trust that we have in general for our fellow players and through it we build a community in which we have respect for each other's wishes and choices. If someone doesn't give consent, in the rape scenario, you just gotta move on like those few seconds didn't happen and then truly do what your character would do.

[FightClub]

Yay for rape, boo for conscent.

-FightClub approves Gorilla J

[Marauder Moe]

You think it's rude, then, for rape victims, or anyone otherwise OOCly disturbed by rape, to withhold consent (and force your character to change his actions) instead of changing themselves to deal with it?  

*scratch head*

[FightClub]

You know what, I don't see why a logical person would like rape *gasp* Holy shit, what'd he say? Yeah sure the fuck-me's very much enjoy it, yeah sure you've got some pretty screwed up kids out there.  But knocking out of a rape scession, is like knocking out of combat with a scrab because you think it's too vivid, need to draw the line -- yeah I know there are some youngins on here, sure their eyes need to be protected, but we shouldn't alter ic for ooc motive, just because Jane or Joe isn't comfortable with it.  I've seen an all consuming trend as of late to block out every single derogatory action that happens against your pc, it's becoming silly.  So yeah not even sure if I'm along the line of this topic, but there's a rant enjoy.

Really, if it ever happened, and I had another PC in a position of submission where they were at my mercy..if they decided my character's actions for me, and forced that on me, I'd most likely be rather annoyed and simply end their life.

In a world like Zalanthas, from what I've seen, if you have someone in a position where you could successfully rape them you could most likely kill them as well, with just as much justification.

You are new Gorilla J and so I am really trying to say this as nicely as possible.  Good RP'ing doesn't allow for us to do things IC'ly for OOC reasons -- whether this means allowing our character to fall off the Shield Wall because they don't know it is there even though we do or refraining from killing the mean looking warrior just because -we- know he is a newb.  

While it is true that there could be just as much (or as little) IC justfication for killing someone as raping them, this does not hold true if you were doing it for OOC reasons, ie. because they didn't give consent.  There is a certain amount of trust involved with RP'ing. I trust you to stay in character, you trust me to do likewise. There is also a trust that we have in general for our fellow players and through it we build a community in which we have respect for each other's wishes and choices. If someone doesn't give consent, in the rape scenario, you just gotta move on like those few seconds didn't happen and then truly do what your character would do.

And just to vouch for Gorilla J, he might be new here, but he carries better rping skills than the majority of the players I've seen here.  I've been left in awe in the multiple times I've rped with him, and no he's not a raging rapist.

[Gorilla J]

Really, if it ever happened, and I had another PC in a position of submission where they were at my mercy..if they decided my character's actions for me, and forced that on me, I'd most likely be rather annoyed and simply end their life.

In a world like Zalanthas, from what I've seen, if you have someone in a position where you could successfully rape them you could most likely kill them as well, with just as much justification.

You are new Gorilla J and so I am really trying to say this as nicely as possible.  Good RP'ing doesn't allow for us to do things IC'ly for OOC reasons -- whether this means allowing our character to fall off the Shield Wall because they don't know it is there even though we do or refraining from killing the mean looking warrior just because -we- know he is a newb.  

While it is true that there could be just as much (or as little) IC justfication for killing someone as raping them, this does not hold true if you were doing it for OOC reasons, ie. because they didn't give consent.  There is a certain amount of trust involved with RP'ing. I trust you to stay in character, you trust me to do likewise. There is also a trust that we have in general for our fellow players and through it we build a community in which we have respect for each other's wishes and choices. If someone doesn't give consent, in the rape scenario, you just gotta move on like those few seconds didn't happen and then truly do what your character would do.

I may be new, but I'm hardly stupid.  I full well understand the concept behind it; nevertheless, I adamantly maintain my position.  If my character was going to hurt someone, they could full well decide killing them would be a viable option; they could settle for rape, but if that wasn't allowed, death.  Or permanent disfiguration, if Mr or Mrs Squeemish would rather have their appendages sliced off as opposed to a little woohoo.  

I trust others to remain in character; forcing me to change due to your OOC preferences is not staying in-character.  If someone doesn't give consent, then yes, I would act like the rape prelude didn't happen; and then I would move on to whatever was going to happen instead.

[MorganChaos]

Gorilla, we understand the point. You're just going about it with all the wrong attitude, and getting a little defensive, it seems, which really isn't necessary.

Personally I'm going to resolve that I can't change his attitude and that it'll change with time as he plays more.

-MorganChaos is capable of being gentle, dammit