Sandstorms and Teeth

[Aldiel]

Actually, I would like to learn more about sandstorms before I make a decision.  I have a friend from Pakistan, and he was telling me they have sandstorms once a year that just turn the sky tan and don't really do anything but make it impossible to see in front of you.  Now I'm sure some sandstorms can be really, really, bad, but I've absolutely no idea how bad because I've never been in one.  For this reason, I can't really say much about sandstorms altogether.

[Aldiel]

Ok, I did a little research on sandstorms, and I think they should be less frequent and more harsh because that seems to be how they are found more commonly in nature, but I'm not sure I like this idea of loosing health from them.  Maybe a little stamina.

[Aldiel]

Ok, so this thread's got me wondering how strong is a fierce wind?  How strong on the winds on zalanthas?  We know it gets up to 150 degrees or more, but how fast are the winds.  I need to know this before I can say if the storms would be destructive.  It seems like if the winds aren't too bad the sandstorm doesn't do much.  It's only when the winds are hurricane harsh that we're talking about serious danger.  I think I wouldn't mind dangerous sandstorms as long as they were about once every two years or something like that.

Edit: by the looks of some of these pics, sands storms can block out the sun completely.  That would be cool to have happen IG.

[Intrepid]

If some factor like a sandstorm is going to deal out damage, I would like to see some
manner of prevention possible.  Sandcloth should be sufficient, imo.  That would be
the only way I could see this being feasible for playability concerns.

Veils and masks could become useful as face covering.  Dab some water onto your
face covering and make a natural filter.  I've always rped this being near the silt.

[amoeba]

Veils and masks could become useful as face covering.  Dab some water onto your face covering and make a natural filter.  I've always rped this being near the silt.

Dude, if you did this in real life you would be very dissapointed.  Sand and water = mud. A mud covered mask is not the most fun.  I've lived in the desert southwest most of my 40+ years. I've been through many a sandstorm, even a couple of the rolling types like in that video that gets so much notice. I've seen a lot of misconceptions in these threads.

The biggest threat of a sandstorm is that you can't see shit.  Think of a thick brown gritty fog. You can see a few feet in front of you, but thats about it. We see stories of accidents along I-10 from Phoenix to Tucson ocasionally because some idiot couldn't see, so they just stopped alongside the road, and left their lights on. People tend to follow the car in front of them, and pile into it.

Does a fierce sandstorm hurt. Yes a little, in bursts. Take a handful of sand and fling it at someone's bare arm. it feels like that. But I have never seen pebbles going along for the ride. I have however seen people emote small pebbles being thrown with the winds.  I certainly hope you emote you being knocked to your feet if the wind is strong enough to throw pebbles in the air.  I could see them skitter along the ground, but blown into the air?

I don't mind fantasy wind storms, with their own set of rules, but I find it silly when people try to exagerate the effects of earth storms to bolster a fantasy world arguement.

[InsertCleverNameHere]

I'd like to see something along the lines of real damage for staying in the storm for an extended period. I echo whoever said adding code to let people know more when a storm is going to hit, and I'd like to add, while I do want to see damage dealt, I'd rather there be an extended time before it actually starts dealing it. 30 seconds, a minute, whatever. Enough time for someone to know they need to move their ass or shelter down, or risk a boo-boo too big for a band-aid.

Someone said it'd force rangers who logged out in the desert to have to stay logged out, but with the suggestion of desert_hide countering the storm because they're actively taking shelter, you could add on that the desert sneak would allow them to move through the storm, albiet slowly. Neither do I think it'd kill all the NPC's. Because, frankly, animals are smart. They sense an earthquake and take to their heels before we ever realize what's going on. I imagine they're smart enough to get out of the sandstorms, too!

And saying that sandcloth should be enough for those people who don't want damage, I think instead it should encourage more people to buy and carry a tent for their group of travelers. Sandstorm's coming? Throw that tent up and get the *bleep* inside. Yes, I do realize if your clothing isn't likely to hold up against those harsh winds and blasting sand, then a cloth tent realisticly shouldn't either.. But I like the idea of being able to weather the storm inside a shaking, sagging tent better than everybody just spam-walking to the nearest city/outpost/cave each time the wind starts picking up.

And I agree with the other suggestion about making these SUPER HARSH storms less frequent and/or shorter in duration. Few months ago, I took two steps from the gate, sadly forgetting to do a weather check as the weather AT the gate wasn't HORRIDly bad, and got smacked with a wicked storm and couldn't make it back. Ended up sitting at my computer, for around 4 hours, with my non-ranger PC stuck in a blasting sandstorm, emoting behing hunkered down behind an erdlu while waiting for it to pass. I even wished up because it was 5 am, I was exhausted and needed sleep.. No IMM was available, I waited it out until the storm cleared enough to grope back to the gate, got in, logged out.

[Nao]

So - there's sand lying around on the ground. that's a bit like snow, right? I've been in a nasty blizzard storm with speeds abotu 120 km/h at high elevation, it hurts exposed skin, yes. It stings and maybe you'll get some frostbite.

with a sadnstorm, it wouldn't be so much different - just that sand is a bit more unlikely to get blown up like that, because it's heavier and doesn't usually fall down from above in the first place.

The reason I see why cattle might die in a sandstorm - they breathe in the sand and destroys their lungs. Easy fix for that? Cover yur ose and mouth. Every zalanthaian would be abale to do that unless they're completely stripped naked. Sand is a bit abrasive to the skin, sure - easy fix? Cover that, too.

So I really don't see why a sandstorm should deal out enough damage to kill someone within five minutes - zalanthans should be able to protect themselves that much. A little damage? Maybe, but not enough to kill or anything like it. We want this game to remain playable, and the risk of something nasty jumping you because you can't see your own hand in tat storm is already bad enough. Dying to stupid stuff like that sucks.

[spawnloser]

Nao, there is one flaw in your logic...sand DOES get flung about like it does in a snowstorm, only faster because it takes more wind to get it off the ground.

[Nao]

I said it would be a bit harder to fling it about - heavier grains, thus a bit more unpleasant - still, basically it should be similar.

[Forty Winks]

Flying sand still isn't the same as getting struck in the arm with a club, or surviving a fall from a cliff. It'll be more of a stun than actual damage, and you still recover stun without having to rest. It'll make it more difficult to fully concentrate while getting blasted with sand.  :wink:

[Sir Diealot]

So make sandcloth, or thicker wrappings protect you.  I'd love for that, plus the rope-typing addition to allow for tribals to 'give back to Ruk' by tying a naked humanoid out in the path of a sandstorm.

I vote, very much, for pain/death for an uncovered person out in a storm.

As it stands, I could run my PC naked back and forth through the most blinding sandstorm ever, if I happen to have chosen the Ranger class.

[Anonymous]

I think there are a couple of key points people are missing in this thread.  It does not fundamentally matter what "happens on earth" or even "what is realistic" because Armageddon is a fantasy theme that is not based on actual historical events, characters, or settings.  The sky's really the limit, here, as long as it makes the game (that's right! I called Armageddon a game!) fun to play.

Let's stop for a second and analyze a few things.

1) Why are sandstorms in the game?
2) How would changing them make the game more fun/interesting/compelling to play?

I really wish these two questions were more frequently asked when discussions (or decisions) about code changes occurred.

[John]

I would like to see something along the lines of actually needing to shield yourself from the storm or take some kind of penalty. The 'hiding' to find cover from the storm sounds pretty cool and allows alot of playability. Maybe even take a step further and allow rangers to have an ability to sense sandstorms before they come. Making their use as guides all the more useful.

No, no, no. Just make the sandstorm code more realistic so it's possible for PCs to predict when a bad storm is coming.

[John]

Let's stop for a second and analyze a few things.

1) Why are sandstorms in the game?
2) How would changing them make the game more fun/interesting/compelling to play?

I really wish these two questions were more frequently asked when discussions (or decisions) about code changes occurred.

You know what would be more fun? If you only got incriminated when trying to steal from PCs. That way I could steal from NPCs without fear of being jailed.

[jmordetsky]

I'm all for more dangerous sandstorms if Desert Quit and Storm Navigation become skills and more then just the ranger class has access to them.

Creating more dangerous storms that rangers can just magickally navigate through and "disapear" in just make rangers even more utterly rediculous and creates a bigger hassle to non-rangers who get stuck in them.

Though, atleast if sandstorms dealt damage you would die after a period of time as opposed to just being forced to "sit it out" and pray for a silt horror to come and smash you out of your bored misery.


:is bitter.

[Anonymous]

You know what would be more fun? If you only got incriminated when trying to steal from PCs. That way I could steal from NPCs without fear of being jailed.

Clearly there's no difference between removing all risk from the game and making sure that it doesn't prohibit playability.

Your response is as silly as someone trying to argue the other side with some sort of bullshit "HEY WHY NOT HAVE IT JUST KILL YOUR CHARACTER WHEN YOU LOGIN" retort.

[Hot_Dancer]

Mostly against, I thought Zalanthans were tough and I'm skeptical vs the current weather code due to the places I regularly see some pretty savage storms in.

Hot Dancer

[Xygax]

I have to say, I think our sandstorms are lethal enough for those who wander into them unprepared.  After playing for as long as I have, I am a tremendously cautious player in the desert, and I have paid for a handful of weather-related mistakes (some of which I knew I was making at the time) with the lives of my characters, even in spite of otherwise being prepared and cautious.

-- X

[Anonymous]

I have to say, I think our sandstorms are lethal enough for those who wander into them unprepared.

... or even for people who wander into them prepared.  You realize that sandstorms were responsible for the majority of the calamity that won Halaster his fame?

[gfair]

Sandstorms are, in my opinion, not harsh enough. People go out in fierce winds, gales, and harsh sandstorms without reacting to the environment at all.

Damage from sandstorms? Even the harshest sand in the world can't do damage. But stun - weathering fierce storms can often be mentally exhausting. Not too much, but somewhat.

Sandstorms should be disorienting, though. People should lose their orientation. If you walk into the wind of a sandstorm, the blowing sand should blind you. Or you should get sand in your armor that begins rubbing, causing major irritation and, with prolonged movement, pain. Think sand in the bathing suit/down the backside/between the toes.

And another idea on the disorienting bit - you lose track of directions. You should lose your orientation and walk both in random directions and opposite directions to keep people guessing about their orientation. If you happen to be near a major identifying object when this happens, then your best bet is to stay still and deal with the storm. This would also potentially screw up auto-mappers in Mud clients which has its benefits.


Some info about sandstorms/afflictions caused by them:

http://library.thinkquest.org/03oct/01027/sandstorm.html

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/04/0429_050429_iraqduststorm.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_Dust


Very interesting claims/facts about sand & dust storms. I'd like to see silt storms

[Cavus]

Oh come on. Storms are already shit. I don't want to see players die of storm. They are already immobilized by storm which causes them to die of thirsty/hungry if strom lasts long. No to damage. Stay where you are and die of thirst/hunger if your char was stupid to go out without enough supply. Or maybe you'll die because a gith will find you, and if you move you fell of shield wall or maybe new giths. bla bla. The way it is fine. I remember the times when there is no blinding storm. Like someone said Enough is enough:-) No need to make it harsher. I am sure you are suggesting this to lessen storm times so gain benefit but this way will be worse.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

Idea: instead of losing health, maybe people lose stamina while in a storm? This would force realistic reactions. Either get out quickly, or else hunker down ("too exhausted to move", codedly), and wait it out.

[Intrepid]

I want to see living storms that follow pcs from room to room and yell at them in
ancient languages no one has.

[LoD]

Sandstorms are already dangerous, terribly inconvenient, uncontrollable beasts that supress play and delay/stop RPT's and outdoor events.  Adding any more detrimental effects to their presence is unneccessary.  Sandageddon is powerful enough as it is.

-LoD

[Morrolan]

I want to see living storms that follow pcs from room to room and yell at them in ancient languages no one has.

think Why do all the rangers know ancient languages?