Another one for Morgenes

[Many Faces]

What do y'all think about the ability to 'rip' pages out of books and such?

Y'all?

Y'all?

[FightClub]

Fail.

[bloodfromstone]

That would be awesome. Never useful for me, but awesome.

[John]

I'd say the amount of times it would be used would be too small to bother with. I'd say let's wait until books are more prevalent before writing such specialized code.

[Bebop]

Hrm.... I like it.  But I don't like the idea of ancient texts being ripped.  Anyway, besides that, that's what sheets of paper are for so I'm going to go with what John said.

[moab]

much better for the game if you just read someting and copy it yourself.

there are so few actual books that ruining any should be a ooc crime.  :-D

[Cenghiz]

Ruining any book should be an IC and OOC crime, even when it's only a cooking book.

[Halaster]

Speaking of which, I saw that a couple of players recently got a hold of some books, IC, and according to the logs junked one of them.  I can't tell you how shitty that is....

Please don't do that.

[Literate Kank]

Speaking of which, I saw that a couple of players recently got a hold of some books, IC, and according to the logs junked one of them.  I can't tell you how shitty that is....

Please don't do that.

I wrote a full-length book in game recently.  It took me around eight to nine hours to write in an OOC notebook, two hours to type it all into Word, one hour editing every page to fit under the 2,000 characters limit and one hour copying everything in-game to make an IC draft.
It then took me an additional three hours to clean up, edit and improve the drafts, one hour to edit everything to fit under 2,000 characters again, and then one hour copying everything into the finalized IG book because I had to struggle with a minor bug that limited each page to 1,940 characters per page instead of 2,000, which was just mind numbing.

That's around twenty RL hours for a single book object.  I know this is OOC and not really a valid reason for why books shouldn't be destroyed, but making IG books is HARD WORK.
ICly, books should be worth a damned fortune anyway, so just destroying a book is similar to finding an eyeball-sized ruby and throwing it away.

Don't mess with books.  I'll kill you.  I'll kill all of you.

[LauraMars]

Why would anybody want to tear a page out of a book, in Zalanthas?

I could see maybe some intense noble/templar happenings and interactions where one is filled with rage and just has to tear up a book...but for the rest.

a) Commoners wouldn't tear up a book.  If you have reason to be in a position to actually want to, you know you're in some deep shit.  Better just take it to a templar.

b) Why would a commoner tear out a page and not destroy the whole thing?  They can't read, so they'd have no idea what they were ripping out, and also see point a.

c) Why would a noble want to tear out a page? She probably wrote the book, and if she needs just the page, can tell her slave to copy it onto a clean piece of paper.

Books are too priceless in this world to just rip up, stolen or discovered ones can facilitate interaction and many a plot...unless you're a total dweeb like the book-junkers above.

[Delirium]

Why would anybody want to tear a page out of a book, in Zalanthas?

Messed up a page and want to take that one out so that the whole book isn't ruined?

Admittedly that is a somewhat rare occurance and you should probably just be more careful not to screw up, heh.

[Junker]

Speaking of which, I saw that a couple of players recently got a hold of some books, IC, and according to the logs junked one of them.  I can't tell you how shitty that is....

Please don't do that.

Unless you have empirical evidence to prove your assertions that what the players did was "shitty", I'd appreciate it if you refrained from using such words. I was in fact one of the players you mentioned, though I wasn't the one in question whom junked the book. I apologize possible plotlines were destroyed, though again I reiterate, please do not assume we were trying to screw the mud over.

It was an accident the book was junked in the first place. Damn keywords.

[Armaddict]

Rather than 'rip' pages out...

I'd rather see the ability to go back to partially filled pages, and fill them the rest of the way in.

Kind of irritating when you keep a book of notes, and end up with only three or four lines on each page.  And it's expensive, to boot.

[Delirium]

Rather than 'rip' pages out...

I'd rather see the ability to go back to partially filled pages, and fill them the rest of the way in.

Kind of irritating when you keep a book of notes, and end up with only three or four lines on each page.  And it's expensive, to boot.

Yes, yes, yes.

An 'append' command of some sort.


Edit:
A stopgap measure is to keep notes in a notepad file OOC, and add them in once they've reached 2000 characters.  That way, you also have a backup file of your writings in case of a crash - something I learned to do the painful way the last time I had an RW capable character.

It's still not as nice as being able to keep a real-time IC log of notes, though.

[LauraMars]

Great idea, Armaddict.  I'm all for.

[WarriorPoet]

I've always wondered about that.

If you're Lady Rottencrotch, a Tor with a love for military history, and you're riding along on a campaign with your unit, would it be acceptable to emote scratching notes in your book, while really writing them down in your open wordpad? Or, would it be better to do as above and just make a few notes per page, and deal with it?

-WP

[Larrath]

If you're riding along with your unit, would it be acceptable to emote scratching notes in your book, while really writing them down in your open wordpad?

A situation where your character might actually die could be different, but in general this is what I have always done.  I'd use the in-game editor if we have the Append option, but the problem is that using Append and .c and .d#, it's possible to erase previously written materials.
That's probably why we don't have this in yet.

[Maybe42or54]

Why would anybody want to tear a page out of a book, in Zalanthas?

steal book templar

....Templar leaves.

read book 65

think The noble told me to steal this page.. Alright, he'd better be right.

rip book 65

You tear page 65 out of the little black book.

.....Templar is found.

plant book templar

...........

tell noble Fuck yes! Here is your page you wanted.

The noble looks it over and says, Good, Lordtemplar doesn't have my sisters phone number anymore! HAHAHAHA

[John]

As I said, the amount of times people would do something like that (you also have to remember that your thief can't read) would be miniscule and can be done with staff help.

[Maybe42or54]

(this is me shrugging)

A few of my plots have been onpar with that item.
I'd prefer we actually account for situations like that, so when we do come to them we can go, Holy shit, that is awesome.

Instead of.. Huh. Someone should idea this for the 80th time.

[Cenghiz]

The thief stealing the phone number is an exception equal to a rukkian trying to destroy city walls with his power or a drovian casting some kind of fearful illusion in the middle of non-reactive NPCs. For the greater effect which is needed once in a while, a wish up can be the quick solution.

[Maybe42or54]

Or an all together non-happening Solution.

[Cenghiz]

I wanted to mean, there are so many situations and exceptions that is not handled by the code, that's why we're allowed to wish up.

1. A half-giant decides to bash a door down.
2. A suk-krathi decides to start chaos in a NPC filled area like 'rinth and he knows noone but the one whom he attacks will respond.
3. An assassin wants to slice the meat from a head to acquire a skull.
4. You want to throw an end of rope to a friend who fell into a chasm.
5. A rukkian gets forced to report all the time that NPCs do not respond agreessively or with fear towards the visible magickal effects on his body.
6. A shop owner in the bazaar needs to be killed.
......

There are countless situations which are exceptions which happen once in a year, if not even less. Asking for all to be coded may kill Morgenes and we need him _yet_.

[Armaddict]

And by the way, Morgenes...thank you for coding titling to books.  I'm not sure whether I idea'd it a couple weeks back or not, but I know I wanted it done.

You're -always- thinking of me.

[Maybe42or54]

1. A half-giant decides to bash a door down.
2. A suk-krathi decides to start chaos in a NPC filled area like 'rinth and he knows noone but the one whom he attacks will respond.
3. An assassin wants to slice the meat from a head to acquire a skull.
4. You want to throw an end of rope to a friend who fell into a chasm.
5. A rukkian gets forced to report all the time that NPCs do not respond agreessively or with fear towards the visible magickal effects on his body.
6. A shop owner in the bazaar needs to be killed.

Well, how do you eat an entire elephant after you kill it? One piece at a time.

[Anonymous]

Please don't junk a book?

So there's no good IC reason why a commoner who has total disdain for the establishment to find a book and destroy it?

I know it's OOC shitty, but so is killing someone just because their accent is bad, or because your assistant can't otherwise practice backstab... but it's ICly justifiable.

[Eternal]

Don't use the junk command... wish up to have it removed from the game.  Books, as I understand it, are written virtual objects.  By that, I mean that they are only saved in that instance, and creating a new one gives you a blank copy without writing.  When it takes someone 20+ hours to create it, and a simple command 'junk' can ruin all that near irreparably... don't do it.

Lord Templar Hard Nose thinks:  "Reading is Fun(damental)!"

[The One who Junked.]

Speaking of which, I saw that a couple of players recently got a hold of some books, IC, and according to the logs junked one of them.  I can't tell you how shitty that is....

Please don't do that.

As the one who -accidentally- junked the book in question. I had to respond to this to make it clear that it was not my intentions to junk the book. It was a complete and total accident that I junked the book, I had used the wrong keyword when I intended to junk something else. I can't remember what the -exact- situation was now, I just remember junking the book on accident and going "Oh shit.".

If it makes you feel any better about your book, as I'm sure you know my pc was killed not long after. Unfortunately through the use of OOC information exhange (read "cheating") Whether it was from player to player, staff to player, player to staff, or staff to staff member's pc I do not know. (The only IC explanation is a mindbender.)
No amount of complaining is going to bring back my pc so I decided to just throw it over my shoulder and move on.
What's more disheartening that the book being lost "on accident" is losing your pc to the use of OOC information. I nearly quit playing over it.

[Larrath]

What's more disheartening that the book being lost "on accident" is losing your pc to the use of OOC information. I nearly quit playing over it.

First, this really makes me think we should get a "junk undo" command somehow.
Second, I think you're being too quick to blame OOC factors.  How do you know that there wasn't a ghost living in the book that got destroyed, for example?

If you suspect you got killed unfairly, you should really email the MUD and ask about it.

[Maybe42or54]

Or we could just get rid of "junk book."

When you do type "junk book," you could get a message that says, "If you want to destroy this book, type "salvage book."

[Angela Christine]

Or we could just get rid of "junk book."

When you do type "junk book," you could get a message that says, "If you want to destroy this book, type "salvage book."

But what about if you accidentally salvage the wrong keyword?   :shock:

No, books need more protection.  The only way to get rid of them should be book burning.  Get a fire going, and then "put book fire" as per the fire helpfile.

Possibly "eat paper" for small paper objects like a note on a single sheet of paper, but not for large leather-bound books or scrolls made from hide.


Angela Christine

[Maybe42or54]

Or we could just get rid of "junk book."

When you do type "junk book," you could get a message that says, "If you want to destroy this book, type "salvage book."

But what about if you accidentally salvage the wrong keyword?   :shock:

No, books need more protection.  The only way to get rid of them should be book burning.  Get a fire going, and then "put book fire" as per the fire helpfile.

Possibly "eat paper" for small paper objects like a note on a single sheet of paper, but not for large leather-bound books or scrolls made from hide.


Angela Christine

Well, doesn't it say "You begin salvaging the little black book."?
That would give you a few seconds to change your mind.

[Angela Christine]

Well, doesn't it say "You begin salvaging the little black book."?
That would give you a few seconds to change your mind.

I think so, but in the panic of those few seconds, will you remember how to stop salvaging?

[Maybe42or54]

Sit? Contact? I have accidently spent 4 hours getting words ready for a book, then I closed out of my microsoft word and didn't save it, since I put it in the book.. Then I had a black rock. Fuck, I hate myself.