So, how would you change Allanak?

[Anonymous]

It seems like there's a lot of discontent about Allanak because Tuluk has been made culturally superior (or at least, it has more thorough documentation about the societal levels, etc.)  What would you change about Allanak?

Keep in mind, this is pretty much -purely- a gas.  The staff may or may not give a flying vestric about any of this.  But it's something better than listening to the rants -against- Tuluk.

I think it would be interesting if there were some IC distinction between free people and slaves other than collars.  For example, what if free women all were veiled in public, and free men all wore hats, but slaves are only allowed to wear a slave tunic or loincloth, but never hats or veils?  This is just an example, but what sorts of things would you show to differentiate the cultural aspects of Allanak?

[Hymwen]

Just a note, and I know it was an example, but it would be really annoying if everyone had to wear veils in public

[Intrepid]

- More information about the arena and the games.
- An Allanaki Roleplay guideline, rather than just saying they're "unTuluki".
- Legends regarding each noble house's origins.
- Mythos regarding the formation of the city itself.
- Allanaki artistic expression, even if it's just the arena bloodsports.
- Unspoken rules and etiquette, rather than just, "Obey the templars".

- Last, but not least: Mal Krian.  Superstitions indicate that Nakkis were
well aware of this place, given the colors mentioned in the old clothing
docs, but very little else has been mentioned.  I believe such a place
should have left a lasting legacy, imo.

[Anonymous]

Just a note, and I know it was an example, but it would be really annoying if everyone had to wear veils in public :D

only freewomen Allanaki citizens... -shrugs-  It could add intrigue.  Hell, it's not like everyone doesn't talk at tables any fricking way.

Or back at "the compound" wherever that may be.

-snicker-

What about culture?  Tuluk has castes... other than getting booted to the curb by the nearest Oashi for going in the wrong inn, what kinds of cultural things do we say about 'Nak?

[Mudder]

More hatred towards magickers in Allanak. I was playing a 'Gemmed magicker and really didn't see any hatred or disgusted for my PC. I found it more easily to talk to no magickers than it was to other magickers. I wouldn't activately try to talk to the non-magicker PC's, but more like they would just start talking to me and acting like there is nothing wrong with me, I'm just like them.

[Anonymous]

I think that's because the people in Allanak are more afraid of the templars than the elementalists.  The last time an elementalist got out of hand, well.. yeah.. it's not that big a deal, apparently.

[Intrepid]

Going along the same lines as the last post...

- Traditions of conduct between magickers in Allanak.

[Mudder]

Sure, I would be more scared of a Templar too, you DON'T know what the magicker can do, he could send you to the plane of Drov and what not. Some sort of disgust or something would be nice, I mean we are shunned and forced to wear the 'gem, we should get some sort of hatred directed towards us. I mean, that's why I decided to play a 'Gemmed magicker, I wanted to get atleast some sort of disgust from a few PC's.

[LauraMars]

I see Allanak art as being very stiff and ornate.  The more encrusted with wealth and ornament, the better.  I'm not sure who will understand these terms, but Allanak reminds me of the Rococo movement in art, wheras Tuluk harkens after the Baroque or even Impressionistic eras.  Fashionable clothing is stiff, elaborate, and geared towards the nobility.  The music likewise.  

Since the nobles and templars of Allanak rule with their fist of iron and the threat of force/torture/death, they hoarde all the culture for themselves, while the commoners play in the dust at their feet.  Meanwhile, the nobility might enact elaborate noble games with other nobles, execute people, listen to horrible music, and play dress up with their concubines, in addition to their usual tasks.  The movie Dangerous Liasions is a good example of how I see nobility behaving in Allanak.

The problem lies in giving the commoners a culture of their own.  I think this is where Allanak either falters or shines.  On the one hand, the commoners need to be fleshed out.  On the other hand, it isn't as if they're a unified group as they are in Tuluk with that rigid caste system, and the unwashed diversity is appealing and very flexible.  

In Tuluk, the nobles and templars rule with a velvet glove over their iron fist, focusing on personal relationships, negotiations, and communication as they get the commoners to run things FOR them.  It's a method just as effective, since love you (tuluk) or hate you (allanak), the commoner will do as they're told.  Therefore, Tuluki culture is geared just as much towards the commoner as towards the templars and nobles.

[John]

only freewomen Allanaki citizens... -shrugs-  It could add intrigue.  Hell, it's not like everyone doesn't talk at tables any fricking way.

Sorry, but no. Too similar to real life tabboos IMO.

Now if magickers were forced to, that would be another story.

[Anonymous]

It was only an example.  guh.  What other distinction between -free- people and -slaves- would you make other than a collar?

[Maybe42or54]

Slaves are slaves. Free people are free. Making allanak develop a caste system would honestly make me retreat to the tribes and never play in the cities again, since allanak would be more of an anti-tuluk thing than an allanaki thing.


Music could have set rythms in verse, set patterns in the notes for intruments.

Art could be about Realistic beauty. Like a picture of a statue you see everyday, with a different background. Or something along those lines.

I love how allanaki noble clothing is.

[Halaster]

It seems like there's a lot of discontent about Allanak

Really?  I hadn't heard of a lot of discontent at all.  I'm not saying it couldn't use improvement - surely it can.  But from what I've read most people tend to love Allanak, and would rather play there than Tuluk.

[Arbonne]

All the suggestions in the world wouldn't help abit unless someone was willing to write the documents up. Volunteers anyone to help out with that?  

[Anonymous]

It seems like there's a lot of discontent about Allanak

Really?  I hadn't heard of a lot of discontent at all.  I'm not saying it couldn't use improvement - surely it can.  But from what I've read most people tend to love Allanak, and would rather play there than Tuluk.

I'm mostly referring to the "let's bash Tuluk" "no! Allanak's the one that hasn't got the documentation!" war going on in the other thread near here.  I've always been sold on Allanak.  You know me.  But I have to agree with some folks that Tuluk, while being the haven of bunnydom, has some mad-ass depth that shows in documents that you just don't see from a surface scratch at Nak.

[Anonymous]

All the suggestions in the world wouldn't help abit unless someone was willing to write the documents up. Volunteers anyone to help out with that?  :D

Sure.  I'm game.

[EvilRoeSlade]

It seems like there's a lot of discontent about Allanak because Tuluk has been made culturally superior (or at least, it has more thorough documentation about the societal levels, etc.)  What would you change about Allanak?

There isn't a damn thing wrong with Allanak.  Except the fact that everyone suddenly decided that Nakkis are unsubtle, just because Tuluk suddenly sprung up and proclaimed itself subtle.

Allanak existed far longer than those documents, and it has NEVER been described as unsubtle.

[Maybe42or54]

Mmmm. Allanak.
All you need is scrab, salt, and Obsidian. The rest is just icing. I hate icing.

[Delirium]

It seems like there's a lot of discontent about Allanak because Tuluk has been made culturally superior (or at least, it has more thorough documentation about the societal levels, etc.)  What would you change about Allanak?

There isn't a damn thing wrong with Allanak.

I agree with EvilRoeSalad.

However, I would like to see more depth in the documention about Allanak, and better organized documentation on both cities.  So that I am putting my money where my mouth is, I am more than willing to work out an outline to illustrate just what I mean by better organization - I would like to see separate documents for both cities, but have them combined in a master document that combines similar overarching elements so that they can be easily contrasted against each other.  I.E.  Allanaki fashion versus Tuluki fashion, Allanaki art versus Tuluki art, Allanaki crime versus Tuluki crime, etc, etc.

[Halaster]

- More information about the arena and the games.
- An Allanaki Roleplay guideline, rather than just saying they're "unTuluki".
- Legends regarding each noble house's origins.
- Mythos regarding the formation of the city itself.
- Allanaki artistic expression, even if it's just the arena bloodsports.
- Unspoken rules and etiquette, rather than just, "Obey the templars".

This is a good starting list of Improvements That Can't Hurt To Make (ITCHTM).

Post in this thread for more ways you think Allanak's documentation can improve.  I'm going to start a thread in the Submissions forum to get help writing stuff, so if you wanna help,go there.  But leave new ideas for this one.

EDIT:  this is the thread I've started: http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=193245#193245

[Intrepid]

I'm mostly referring to the "let's bash Tuluk" "no! Allanak's the one that hasn't got the documentation!" war going on in the other thread near here.  I've always been sold on Allanak.  You know me.  But I have to agree with some folks that Tuluk, while being the haven of bunnydom, has some mad-ass depth that shows in documents that you just don't see from a surface scratch at Nak.

Since I'm one of those people, please allow me to clarify: I love Allanak
and just would like to see more documentation, on par with Tuluk's.

That's all.

[Angela Christine]

I think there is a place for art and music in Allanak, but the occupations that produce art are not as prestigious in Allanak as in Tuluk.  Allanak isn't going to have the equivalent of pop stars or swishy shows at art galleries.  A person that produces good art won't have a higher status than a person who produces good tools, good weapons, or good ale.  Good craftsmanship is appreciated.

Allanaki art isn't less than Tuluki art (less good, less sophisticated, less complex, less whatever) it is just different.

Tuluki art is pretty.  Lots of leaves and flowers, even more leafy and flowery than their actual environment is.  When a Tuluki paints a picture of the Grey forest, it will be prettier than the grey forest actually is (at least prettier than it is within many leagues of Tuluk) with lots of colourful song birds and flowers and whatnot.  Tuluk loves beautiful things.


Allanaki art is fierce.  Some of the public art in Allanak is clearly meant to be scary.  Easily accessible examples: The face on Tradesmen's road by the bazaar, the Templar statues, the gigantic metal dragon outside the gates (take a close look at that one, the dragon isn't just sitting there -- his wings are outstretched and his wingspan is huge, plus he's in the middle of eating someone).  Allanak appreciates strength.


Beautiful art is not better or worse than fierce art.  [/list]


To the average commoner in Allanak, I think the scary art is comforting.  They know that the world is a dangerous place, and death (or worse) waits behind every dune.  The only thing that keeps you safe is that your protectors are scarier mofos than the guys outside the gates.  At this point commoners would probably be more freaked out by a nice, friendly happy Templar than a scary, mean Templar.  
Scary = Strong  = Safe  
Plenty of real life cultures have gone in for the idea that scary pictures, scary costumes, scary masks, loud bangs, loud whistles and other generally unpleasant things keep away evil spirits.  I can see that happening in Allanak too.

In fact, I once had an exploring type PC who decorated her apartment with a variety of skulls she'd found here and there.  That was a bit of a pain, because I had to pick them up and re-drop them after every boot (luckily someone broke in and stole all my stuff including the skulls before it got to be too tiresome).  With another PC I decorated an apartment with a number of obsidian spider statuettes, originally because my character was able to make way more obsidian spiders than she could sell, but I grew to like the unsettling motif.  In Tuluk those decorating attempts would probably have been seen as crude, but I like to think that in Allanak they would be seen as kind of cool.  The idea is to scare off anything that tries to enter your home uninvited (though it doesn't work well against burglars).  Are those obsidian spiders just decorative, or are they guardians enchanted to come to life and attack any intruder?  Is that just a collection of skulls, or is it a collection of undead attack skulls charged with protecting the property?  Even mundane but scary-looking items may frighten away spirits or nervous intruders.


Just a thought.


Angela Christine

[Maybe42or54]

And The bard's barrel is trying to replicate the allanak art with all of its skulls of shelves.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Here's an idea.

For every document that is created regarding Tuluk, produce also a counterpart for Allanak. If we start with what we already have for Tuluk and wrie the counterparts for Allanak, we'll end up with just about as much documentation as we need.

So, if Tuluk has a document regarding Art, produce a document about art for Allanak. If Tuluk has a list of the castes and their roles, create also one for the classes in Allanak.

Once this is done, then we can further delve into the deeper reachs for each city. But starting like this will quickly even out the two cultures as far as documentation goes.

I would like to also note that whereas Tuluk's bards play such a big role in the culture, the Arena plays an equally large part in Allanaki culture. While both cities have bards and Arenas, the importance of these establishments are reversed between the cultures.

[Anonymous]

I think writing corresponding docs for Nak and Tuluk is a great idea. One thing that's important though is that the world will be far more interesting if not everything is different or opposite. For instance the subtlty thing. Tulul may be super subtle but saying that Nak is unsubtle will make things kind of two dimensional. While some things seem very different on the surface, the city states are actually very similar in that they are Zalanthan.

[moab]

Certainly 'nak is not always "in your face."  It's a different kind of subtle.

But you're right.  There's always the whole "the north is subtle" thing that makes one think that the south isn't.  

It is only the very short-lived templars (I know for a fact) that are unsubtle.  :-D

[Yokunama]

Allanak needs more mudsexxing.

[Yokunama]

It was only an example.  guh.  What other distinction between -free- people and -slaves- would you make other than a collar?

IMO, a collar is all you need. :wink:

[Patriotic Erdlu]

To tell the truth, I can say behind all that brutal politics, Allanak is much more subtle than Tuluk may ever become.
Because <beep> does not only belong to <beep>, you may never make sure you're watched or not. Templars love Drovians as pets. (I also hope VNPC drovians are also given to service by imms when PCs are not available). You're never ever safe. There's a solid 'Guild' interacting, even though it becomes weaker at times, it always influences.
All we need is more 'brainwashed' patriots to serve I believe.. Some people - not all of course - should think "Templars are always just, if you view a behaviour unjust, it's because you don't see the whole picture." or "What should I do to serve His Shadow today?" or "I will do something to benefit my Lord. Fuck others. I only serve XXX because he perhaps walks in His Shadow.".
Also, we do need documentation for sure. People may understand the basic politics by playing a few chars here and there, but there's no starters for the new folks, that's why they may make mistakes.
(Kudos to Lord Templar Haadith Oash, Lord Brion Oash and Lord Templar Malenthis Jal from here about my experience with past chars. Current ones - I'm already sending 'kudos' via the tool in the webpage. Especially you - you know who you are - you're making my RP senses tingle softly all the time.)

[Intrepid]

Where Tuluk has tattoos, Allanak has regalia and tokens.

Templars: Robes, ring, medallion.
Nobles: Signet, ridiculous clothes only a noble would wear.
Merchants: Signet.
Militia: Dustcloak, patch, helmet, boots.
Bynners: Shitcloak and patch.
House guards: Armor, cloak.
Slave: Collar, possibly some organizational regalia.

Commoners often have something denoting their house employ as well,
though not deliberately.

[John]

Post in this thread for more ways you think Allanak's documentation can improve.

I'd really like to see life in the Allanaki villages and farms defined. In particular the (3?) coded villages.

Create really elaborate traditions for them, that are particular to one village. Perhaps one village is a matriarchy, perhaps another a patriarchy, perhaps in one monogomous relationships are normal, perhaps another polygamous relationships are the norm. Perhaps in one village children don't even know who their parents are, but are raised by the community. What superstitions do people have in the villages? Perhaps some of the villages use magickers a fair bit, while another secretly kills any of their kind who show their magickers.

And then there's festivals. The Festival of Remembrance on the 203rd day of the 2nd month, where the town celebrates how everyone got together and kept the dwarven army of Thrain Ironsword out of the village, when many others were being plundered. The Day of the Templar, where a defiler had once attacked the village, only to be killed by the soldiers and Templars. In remembrance, no-one dares to leave their homes, however soldiers can go to any home and will be given whatever they desire.

Really heavily define each of the 3 villages, to add flavour and allow people who want to, to have a place they can be from and have a rich culture particular to one village. If people don't want to be from any of those villages, they can be from another one and make up their own culture for the village.

[ale six]

Whether it's documented or not, I think Allanak has a pretty defined and consistent culture already.

As other people have pointed out, Allanak is a much more brutal city than Tuluk is. (This doesn't mean it's more "harsh".) In Allanak, people get killed on the street, and the population likes to watch. Criminals get killed for sport in the arena or tossed on the other devices for public execution and torture while crowds of onlookers cheer. Tuluk likes to sweep all its dirty laundry (in terms of criminal executions) under the rug, while Allanak likes to hang it out on the clothesline proudly.

As far as art goes, this may just be a PC trend, but I've noticed that in Allanak, there seems to be a lot more entertainment from dance than from singing. I'm sure Tuluki bards dance too, but I've seen a lot more of it in 'nak. (This could just be a result of overexposure to the Atrium. ) Another thing a PC told me once that I've always believed, regardless of how true or not it might be, was that Allanakis might favor poetry, but composed in the form of spoken verse rather than song. I imagine the topics an Allanaki bard might sing about would be different than a Tuluki bard, too.

One thing I think is worth remembering is that Tuluk doesn't have the monopoly on subtleties (as other people said), but it doesn't have a monopoly on bards, either. Bards in Allanak do exist, I think they just take a different form and may not be taken as seriously as their Tuluki counterparts. I can definitely see some of the noble houses hiring a wordsmith/jester or two to hang around and entertain for their amusement, sing bawdy and insulting songs about their rivals, and whatever. (For example, somebody get the npc in the Barrel to sing "The Oash are a'Hiring" sometime.) But at the end of the day I think Allanaki bards are just treated as cute little toys for the upper classes' amusement, since it seems like commoners in 'nak are treated with a lot less regard than commoners in Tuluk, on the whole.

Just some random thoughts. I might post more later. Oh, and...

Allanak needs more mudsexxing.

What rock have you been hiding under?

[Halaster]

Yeah, understand that when I'm asking for help with documentation I'm not wanting to change or significantly add to Allanaki culture.  I think it's already pretty decent.  I'm just asking for documents on things that already are, but could use some better defining and spelling out.

The exception to this is the legends, some of those are goint to be new.

[jcarter]

Yeah, understand that when I'm asking for help with documentation I'm not wanting to change or significantly add to Allanaki culture.  I think it's already pretty decent.  I'm just asking for documents on things that already are, but could use some better defining and spelling out.

The exception to this is the legends, some of those are goint to be new.

I'd like to know more about commoners. What's life like for your average commoner? What is the job of the vast majority of them? Do all commoners really love Tektolnes? How would a commoner react when being asked by someone to spy against the templarate for a significant amount of money? Where do commoners usually live?

[Hymwen]

Where do commoners usually live?

That one would be relatively easy to answer. With the exception of 'rinthers, 'gickers and very wealthy merchants, most commoners live in the Commoners' Quarter (gasp!), either in the tenements, the apartments on Stonecarver's Road and Miner's Road, or in any of the more or less virtual homes along Commoners' Way and that other street, what's it called... Something's Walk.

[Aldiel]

- More information about the arena and the games.
- An Allanaki Roleplay guideline, rather than just saying they're "unTuluki".
- Legends regarding each noble house's origins.
- Mythos regarding the formation of the city itself.
- Allanaki artistic expression, even if it's just the arena bloodsports.
- Unspoken rules and etiquette, rather than just, "Obey the templars".

- Last, but not least: Mal Krian.  Superstitions indicate that Nakkis were
well aware of this place, given the colors mentioned in the old clothing
docs, but very little else has been mentioned.  I believe such a place
should have left a lasting legacy, imo.

So basically much of what's in the works atm.

Edit: Just read back over my post and realize it came out a little harsh.  Didn't mean it that way in any way.

[Aldiel]

Personally I think Allanak has some pretty rich culture; it's just not the same culture as Tuluk, nor should it be.  One thing to keep in mind too, is that you may not feel like the cities have much culture simply because many of the newer players don't know of it.

[Armaddict]

My only thing to say on people's concerns about a lack of culture in Allanak...you're looking for the wrong sort of culture.

If you actually pick apart things, look at histories that are easily available, and piece things together about how things -are-...there's all sorts of culture to explore.

[ThirdEye]

Felt I had to add this. Allanak doesn't have bards they have, (as somebody in a distant time and place put it) Tavern Singers.