Tavern Food

[creeper386]

Alright, I've mentioned this before, and I'll probably mention it again and again and again, but thats besides the point.

I think something needs to be drastically change in regards to the tavern food. Either their prices or how filling they are, in one day  it takes about 100 'sid or so to stay fed, normally about 50 'sid a meal. Now I may be wrong but I got they idea that most the people in Allanak were poor, but supposedly places like the Gaj all almost always filled especially after Gladiator events and such. And it seems to me a normal commoner would have to save up a year just to spend a night in the Gaj, and be kept fed.

I'd think it's some what unrealistic the prices, or at least the amount of food then give. You can buy something for nearly 100 'sid, and get less food out of them then you do a travel cake. And those you get three for 12 'sid?

I don't know, but I think most of the food in taverns and such are over priced AND probably not as filling as the should be, at the prices and everything, they wouldn't be getting enough business to stay in well business.

Creeper

[Rindan]

Personally, I would just rather see more cooking products that are cheap.  Currently, if you want to eat cheaply, you better enjoy the taste of travel cake.  I would like to see more cheap fruits, meats, and grains.  Don't let people make anything amazing out of this stuff, but let there be an alternative.

I don't really mind that tavern food costs a lot.  I would just like to see more cheap food from from elsewhere.  40 'sid to fill up on anything other then travel cakes really hits the pocket of a city person who doesn't  hut, doesn't get free food from a clan, and in generaly plays a common Joe.

[creeper386]

I'm not saying tavern food should be CHEAP, and some of it should right now does work because of expensive components and such, but for the most part, the tavern food should be fitting of the theme, in a world were most everyone has to work hard for most of the day or night whichever it is, eatting at a tavern because alot more common, because people are either staying at the tavern, thats their home, or houses don't have someone staying there to do the cooking, cooking is alot longer back then most the time then it is now.

How I see it now, noone in their right mind, unless they work for a noble house with a high position would be eating at a tavern, and although alot of PCs tend to have alittle more coin, thats a SMALL part of the population. I think everything would be alot better if people acctaully ate more at taverns instead of just seeing the nobles being able to afford it. Not only is it funny seeing people LIVE off of travel cakes, it's odd that a 4 sid cake of flour, is more filling then a 20 sid fruit, or a 100 sid slab of meat or something similar.

Yes, tavern food shouldn't be cheap, but right now it's ridiculous, prices need to be lowered and the amount that the food fills you should be increased, I try to play my character as a person in the world, it's hard when you can spend a hundred 'sid on one meal, just so my character doesn't get hungry again in another 10 minutes.

Creeper

[creeper386]

Okay, it's me again, and I got some numbers. I'm not saying the numbers are ANY place accurate, but I think they should put things in alittle bit of perspective.

Okay, got out my 2nd Edition AD&D Players Handbook(I hear the moans already, but hear me out) okay and got the price of something fairly common for means of transportation, got the price for a day's worth of meals(At least thats how I read it, and it seems pretty accurate) cross multiplied and divided with the price of a kank, to come out with how many 'sids a days worth of good food should cost. It came out to two 'sid. Now, I know for a fact with Allanak's at least, and probably the rest of the words economy, PCs well be rolling in alot of money if that was the way it was. But it comes out in proportion to be 2 'sid, nothing like the current nearly 100 'sid if not even more to keep fed in a tavern.

Don't know why food is so much... But it makes it a hassle to play someone who doesn't eat travel cakes all day, and doesn't work for a coded clan that gets food for free. I mean i've been told ICally to save my money and just eat travel cakes, how screwed up is that? To me, it's SEVERALLY screwed up.

I think I've said everything I've got to say on the matter, but most likely well say more later on down the road. Even though I'm sure it won't do a damn bit good.

Creeper

PS, here are the numbers.

Riding Horse, 7500 copper; Meals(Per Day) 50 copper; Kank, 300 'sid.
50cp * 300 'sid / 7500cp = 2 'sid(For non math people, it comes out as 2 'sid because 50cp * 300 'sid = 15000 cp/'sid. When you divide it by 7500cp the cp is canceled out and your left with 2 'sid, and yes, in High School I was always explaining to the people in my math class how little things like this works)

[Lazloth]

Riding Horse, 7500 copper; Meals(Per Day) 50 copper; Kank, 300 'sid.
50cp * 300 'sid / 7500cp = 2 'sid(For non math people, it comes out as 2 'sid because 50cp * 300 'sid = 15000 cp/'sid. When you divide it by 7500cp the cp is canceled out and your left with 2 'sid

Maybe there is a severe surplus of kanks in the world, making the going rate on the open market 50* lower than expected; could solve this issue by increasing the price to purchase a kank.

Come on, even the poorest of poor characters will be rolling in virtual cash.

[Angela Christine]

MUDs always have funky economics, all in the interest of play balance.

You figure a meal should cost less, which may be true, but people also eat and drink far less food than they should.  A day is really only about 40 OOC minutes long, despite the fact that watching the date and the hours change would lead you to believe that an IC day takes about 90 minutes.  There is some weird time splitting for playability, watch the days change in your age (listed in your score) to see the real amount of time passing.  You get 17 IC years every OOC year.  People don't need to eat a days worth of food every 40 minutes of play time.  A big steak can keep you from feeling hungry for several IC days, but in real life most of us like to eat several times a day, even if one of those meals is large.  But nobody wants to have to eat a meal every 10 or 20 minutes of play time, so meals are large, stomachs are large, and it takes a good long time to digest your food.

There are things you can do.

Find a cheaper tavern.  Prices have been inflated in most Allanak taverns since the famine that was like 30 years ago.   The Gaj and the Barrel aren't really "low class" cheap taverns, they are taverns for people who are afluent enough to spend all day sitting in a tavern.  The Gaj is the closest coded tavern to the public stables, so they get a lot traffic from travellers that aren't fancy enough to go to the traders, and travellers always get screwed.  They also get mercenaries and other rugged types comming in to get drunk or to celebrate, and when you are drunk the prices don't look so bad.    There are cheaper taverns in other parts of Allanak, taverns where you can get cheap, unappatizing food.  Red Storm and Luirs are pretty limited, but both Tuluk and Allanak have a range of taverns.

Don't eat in taverns.  Poor and even middle class people do not usually eat every meal in a tavern or restaurant.  Most people buy groceries and make their own meals.  If you look carefully you would notice that travel cakes are a flatbread made with flour, water and herbs, it's just that flour is the only non-virtual ingredient so they come out a little cheaper than they probably should.  Sure, much of the food in the grocers is a little pricy, but much better than resturaunt food.  If you can track down a hunter or scavenger type you should be able to buy meat, roots, fruits, etc. for a fraction of what a shop charges.  Most hunters have waaay more meat than they can eat, more even than they can sell to the shops.  Outdoorsy characters often come accross meat left lying in the road or the wilderness because the person who skinned the animal didn't think it was worthwhile to take the meat.  Military groups like the Byn often takes down animals while they are out training or on a mission, maybe they would be willing to sell you some of their excess meat.

Food is a little overpriced, but I think that is deliberate to make PCs appreciate how valuable food and water is.  It is hard to make a desperate character.  Even a sidless rinther can often keep themselves fed just by collecting and selling clothes from corpses other people killed.

AC

[creeper386]

Okay, you haven't aten the tavern food very often then, I've yet to find anything that acctually keeps you full for any amount of time, it may bring you up to no longer being hungry but with 10-20 minutes even if you have soup or steak or any other high priced foods, you start getting hungry again, and once you start getting hungry it drops DRASTICALLY, it's not just that they are ridiculously high in price, they have no content, if you bought an 80 'sid meal I wouldn't have a problem if it acctually filled you up and acctually lasted, but it doesn't ANY where close to as good as any of the food you get for free for joining a clan, heck a bowl of Byn stew can last you two IC days probably, a loaf of bread lasting a day even but any tavern food doesn't last long at all.

I don't know, maybe all my characters burn incredible amounts of energy in the tiring act of talking in a tavern after a meal, maybe thats why the meals last hardly the amount of time the clan food goes while sparring and running about.

I wouldn't have any complaint if the food acctaully lasted, and things are just really screwed up, buy a steak from a tavern, your hungry five minutes later, buy two sacks of flower for the same price and live a good week or two IC time off of it? Am I the only person that sees that it just doesn't seem right, it supports just living off of travel cakes and such like that.

And the problem again is the thinking that people would have the time to waste cooking as well, more often in places like Allanak, EVERYONE in the family works almost constantly and normally from the time it gets light to the time it gets dark, they don't get alot of time besides that. Taverns were made so their would be food when people needed it, rather they were travelers and such. I don't imagine Allanak or any of the southern cities people having a person at home keeping things together and to cook and all that. Heck, even woman with children probably carry their kids about as soon as they are back to being strong enough to work, and the kid can go for a few hours without needing to be fed. Probably the taverns about also host alot of people that commonly hold spots on the floor or in cots and such, more so the people that don't have a large enough family working that could afford to keep a room to call home.

Any type of place to get food throughout the world's history, fast food, resturaunts, taverns, bars, pubs, what have you, tend to be expensiver then other foods, but it isn't to the point of spending a months pay on a few days worth of food. Heck, PCs get paid more often then a month, pay more often comes three times an IC month even if it's monthly pay(One OOC week) and that still wouldn't be enough for more then a few days worth of food at a tavern. Heck, I get less then 10 hours work on my paycheck, I could probably eat at a fast food place and in the least come out even, and fast food now of days are ALOT pricier then any taverns way back in time, but in Armageddon, you'd have to get payed ALOT to even eat all your food for an IC week at a tavern, because the food is really expensive and you'd be eating several meals an IC day. Perhaps this was done so people would acctually eat realistically, if soo... The prices STILL should be WAY lowered, travel cakes should be removed or made not even as great as they are now, and clan foods shouldn't be so great, so they would acctaully have to eat consistantly.

Gah, sure only what, two people responded to this post but I think I've talked about this before and got a few replies then. How can people not see how out of whack and unbalanced it is? I'm not saying make the food all cheap and last a day or two like current clan foods or even a travel cake or two lasting your some time, I'm talking about making them at least reasonably priced. I see no reason why someone should not be able to keep themselves fed at taverns.

And other taverns you say AC? I've played in Allanak, I think 10 out of 11 characters, I've never ran acrossed any other tavern thats big enough to be coded except Gaj, Trader's and Barrel, except some 'rinthi taverns and they aren't exactly inviting to anyone else. I'd be curious of any tavern if they acctually had food that was priced halfway decently, but if there are more I doubt there is decent priced food, right now you can spend a hundred 'sid on food in the taverns and still probably not be kept unhungry for a whole IC day like other foods. And thats either getting the priciest thing or a bunch of the cheaper things.

*EDIT* Forgot to respond to this.

It is hard to make a desperate character. Even a sidless rinther can often keep themselves fed just by collecting and selling clothes from corpses other people killed.

Yes, this is because of things that are way unrealistic, travel cakes you can buy VERY cheap and they go quite aways, some of the fruits, expensive but I don't even know if they are more filling then travel cakes, I know most the stuff the grocer sells unless there because a PC sold it, although some of it is pricey, it's no more filling then any of the tavern food. Yes it's hard to make a desperate character when you keep yourself fed on flour, it's quite easy when you acctually try to eat like a living person would eat, and it's not very probably to live off of, "flatbread made with flour, water and herbs," for any length of time and still actually be fit to do any sort of strenuous activities such as walking. You can be kept alive on bread and water, it's been proving, but you don't get alot of things you need, you become unhealthy, your muscles stop working, your joints dry up, and it takes ALONG time to recover if you do. Or you see alot of people living off of all fruit, and I find vegetarians unlikely in Zalanthas, but also when it's all just fruit and all the same fruit.

Want to play a desperate character, actually eat normally, I'm not talking about three course meals that'd be proper today, I'm talking something along the lines of normal meals, and of some sort of varity that you could acctually stay alive on, and this is without working for a clan and getting free food, or being a hunter, being a normal city person, perhaps it could be done.

BUT it still doesn't change the fact that most tavern foods are WAY overpriced, and WAY undernurishing.
*END EDIT*

Creeper

[X-D]

I don't think you've really paid attention to how long it lasted when your chars have had free clan food Ceeper, I have, if you wait till you are hungry then eat one bowl of byn stew it might last you one half an ic day before you are hungry again, or say 20-30 min RL, you notice that if the food is free, you and everybody else fills up so as to not have to do it again for a couple hours RL. Not uncommon to see a bynner go get 3-4 bowls and eat them all in a spam of 'eat stew'.

Myself, I see nothing wrong with the prices, I've had chars here and there come close to starving and the desperation showed, none died, but some begged or did other things to get the cash.

grin

[COGATO]

Ok, I see a major problem with one aspect of this whole situation. An over abundance of game on the planet. This is a desert planet, resources of almost every kind are scarce, so naturally a well grilled steak is gonna cost your ass, your better off snatching up and scewering a rat for dinner, it just makes more sense that the local Allanaki commoner is gonna eat nasty degrating shit just to survive. About the over abundance of game, I have played hunters who go out and get almost 10 kills a day, come back, sell the hides, make a shit load of sid and live like a noble. In real life, I hunt, (Or used to) and I could go days without a kill, and if you havent noticed, the US has many more resources than zalanthas should. I think hunters should live from hunt to hunt, not kill 10 animals a day and live the high life. I have actually just thrown away hundreds of sid at a time simply because I like the poor mans life and thats the way it should be for the average zalanthan hunter.

[Delirium]

That's the way it IS for the average Zalanthan hunter..

But once your hunter gets better skilled - which is harder than you make it out to be, and takes more time and generally takes a lot of intelligence/luck  - then damn straight they should be able to make a decent living at it.

[Carnage]

Tavern food is fine the way it is. Of course it's expensive. Go out to a restaurant and buy yourself a big, juicy steak that's made by a professional chef. It's going to cost a lot more than if you just made that steak by yourself.

I don't go out to eat every day. I have to make my own food. I couldn't afford to stop at a restaurant for every one of my meals. This's the same exact principle in Zalanthas, and it should be.

Don't like it? Start making the 'sid, starve, or start developing a taste for travel cakes.

[Lazloth]

[crymerci]

I think Rindan had the best suggestion: more varieties of cheap food. There's a recipe similar to travel cakes made with the addition of something found easily and cheaply in the Northlands. Maybe we just need more recipes...hmmm...

:wanders off to scribble down some recipes.

[Callisto]

Making it easier to cook would go a long way as well. It seems a little absurd that you have to burn ten pieces of meat before you can cook a steak correctly. And fruit.. how hard is it to slice a round fruit? I mean really, our characters would have to all be morons, since nine of ten times we lose half of our fruit to a fumble.  :shock:

[creeper386]

Okay, still it doesn't point to the fact. In a society where there is on group in charge and EVERYONE else is poor, the poor people work constantly. No matter if they are man, woman or child. They work ussually all day, look in history, specially in societies that have serfs, there were the few people in charge and everyone else was always working. Now the people in Zalanthas aren't serfs, I imagine they acctually get payed, but I still see them working, EVERYONE THAT IS, all the time, there isn't people staying at home to be a house wife and cook the food, the family is all working.

Taverns weren't only made to feed the rich and to feed travelers.

And I have payed attention to eating in a clan, if you start getting hungry eat one of the Byns bowls of stew, you can go almost a whole IC day without eating again. Thats one bowl. You eat at a tavern, rather it's a 100 'sid steak or a 10 'sid little things of food, withing 5-15 minutes your hungry again. And the Byn stew is one of the lesser things, some clans food lasts ALOT longer then that. How the current taverns are they wouldn't stay in business. PCs even though they aren't much different then the non PCs they tend to be richer then the common population, and if you look, very few PCs tend to eat at taverns, if them being richer, how could anyone else afford it? Even nobles tend to avoid it because they can eat when they get back to the compound. I don't see the taverns paying entrance fees, or fees to sit at the taverns talking business, if the rich people can't afford/don't want to spend the money on the expensive food, how do you figure the rest of the population would do it?

Perhaps I'm the only person that acctually knows that taverns do at times support a large population. I don't even see how the Gaj would be filled with patrons after gladiator times, it wouldn't work very well if everyone carried in their own food. In current times they don't look much on people carrying food for themselves into taverns and such, most the time it isn't much the same in history, you eat their food or you go else where.

Again I'm not saying the food should be as great as clan food or as cheap as travel cakes. It should be expensiver yes, but it still wouldn't be as high of prices as it is now, for really bad food. If thats how it should be, everyone would be eating rats and dealing with hunters to get food to cook, and the taverns wouldn't be making any money.

For the most part, PCs CAN get cheap food, and good food, but thats not the point here. It's the point of it being unrealistic, it may be a small part buy either the smallest crack undermines a buildings entegrity when winter comes around. It undermines all the other stuff that acctually makes the world the world. It's all the small details that add up, and this is one of the bigger details among everything else.

Creeper

[crymerci]

No matter what kind of hours you work, you can find 30 minutes to make a batch of bread (travel cakes). Saving money would be more important than saving time, IMO.

[creeper386]

Do hard work all day, constantly, every day, from the time the sun comes up to the time the sun comes down. And live off of a batch of bread thats made in 30 minutes(travel cakes). I'll tell you it's very unlikely you'd do very well.

Sure, serfs and such lived without eatting much and still did their work in Earths history, but they also lives in green areas where they had things to eat most the time no matter what, their working conditionals would have been alot better in terms of weather, and still they did a very poor job at everything.

I do not see how it fits into the world to force people to eat travel cakes all the time, right here OOCily I'm told eatting travel cakes is the common thing, I'm also told this ICily, save your money eat travel cakes. It's not right. The taverns are over priced for all but nobles to acctually eat good meals, and the nobles have their own cooks and their own hunters to eat good meals. Where do the taverns get the money to stay in busy.

No matter how you cut it, it doesn't make any sense at all, and telling people to eat travel cakes or cook their own meals all the time just doesn't make since either. Not only is there hardly enough PC hunters to keep all the PCs alive with food, there isn't any other place to buy much cooking supplies besides the flour for travel cakes. OOCily I have NO clue what can be made out of any of the things, and the learn ICally is somewhat screwed up. Even if their was some more cheaper recipes I'm seeing it as not being too much of a help, because ICally there isn't that much exchange of knowledge, and any exhange of common thinks like simple recipes that might keep you alive would be considered passing IC information OOCily by most people, and even if this is implemented...

THE WHOLE COOK YOUR OWN FOOD DOESN'T COME CLOSE TO DEALING WITH THE TOPIC THAT TAVERN FOODS ARE OVER PRICED AND DOESN'T DO MUCH FOR HUNGER.

The arguements that tavern food should be expensiver, is rather out of place, because yes they should, but it shouldn't be outside of people to feed off of. Taverns wouldn't be around if the population couldn't afford the places, restaurants now of days wouldn't stay in business if the common people couldn't eat there, and back in time, specially in a setting like Armageddon has it's unlikely that the poor people are going to have the time to do the cooking, if they do have the time, they most likely aren't going to have the resources for it even if they can pay for the food, I doubt all the commoners in Allanak are going to be cooking their meals in the Gaj's common pits. I doubt the commoners could afford materials to build the fire as well as a place to start a fire where they aren't all killed by the smoke. And it's not far fetched to beleive people eat most all from taverns and other places that sells cooked food, it's been seen in the Earth's past everywhere from small villages where most people eat in taverns to bustling cities where there isn't room for everyone to have a place to cook, let alone the money to afford things.

I've thought about it for awhile and dont' see how it fits, even for the people who have a home someplace, it's mostly a small one rooms thing, it's doubtful to have a fire place or anything, it'd take up room, it's unlikely specially in the south to get that cold, and it'd just cost alot more money to keep in burning. Now if all these commoners don't have the place to cook, don't have the time to cook, or the money to afford everything else when cooking, where do they get their food at? Do they just all eat raw foods, everyones a vegetarian, or everyone just eats travel cakes? How'd the cook the travel cakes?

If the it's not common for people to eat at taverns, how do they get their money? From travelers? The travelers are far less, probably carry their own food, might have meat from the trip, or can go buy the meat and cook it themselves. Why would the taverns be there at all if not for people to have a place to eat, drink and do business?

I'm serious when I say this little fact undermines just about everything thats been done to make the world of Zalanthas realistic, because without food, people die. Without a common ground to do business, people get cut down in back alleys and in compounds when deals go bad. Without places for alot of people to sleep, they streets and alleys get alot more crowded not only with sleeping bodies but with corpses, and it all is based of the fact that the food in taverns can't keep someone well fed even if they had the money to buy it, if it's that bad, the taverns wouldn't exist because everyone would hunt, buy, prepare and cook their own food.


Creeper

[Typo]

Alright creeper, I'm in your corner.

(Typo cracks his knuckles against his forehead)

Point 1: The point I believe posed by Creeper is that PCs should get what they paid for. Travel cakes do last longer than a grilled scrab steak, which makes very little sense. Think about, which is going to fill you up. A piece of hard tack or a big steak. Granted, maybe only those able to get by should be able to afford such luxuries as grilled meat, but it is ridiculous that you have to spend your newbie wealth to get by for a few weeks.

Point 2: Yeah, scrabs are considered delicaices in the South, hence their inflated price, but not everyone can afford even the meanest menu items in the Gaj. I'm pretty sure its common knowledge that the Gaj is where the peasants hang out, and the Traders is where the nobles hang out. So, why is the food in the Gaj nearly as expensive as the food in the Traders? Its just bad economic practice to raise prices beyond what the average tavern-goer can spend, no one makes any money. Anyone who might question that should spend some time reading up on Henry Ford.

I am in favor of how the prices of alcohol has been set...You have your expensive, vintage liqour, but you also have your warm kankpiss in a mug. If the food menus could be tailored after this, it would solve a lot of problems. Yeah, Zalanthas is a harsh place, which is why people cling to the cities for their basic amenities. Yeah, Zalanthas is a desert planet, so why does water cost less than grub?

These complaints are very mild, but improving on this imbalance would add some more realism to the game...in my opinion, of course.[/b]

[Barzalene]

Personally, I would just rather see more cooking products that are cheap.  Currently, if you want to eat cheaply, you better enjoy the taste of travel cake.  I would like to see more cheap fruits, meats, and grains.  Don't let people make anything amazing out of this stuff, but let there be an alternative.

I think that given the environment it is unlikely that fruit, grains, or nuts would come cheaply. However, what about meat? What about less palatable types and cuts of meat sold in greater abundance and at a lower cost? Wouldn't that make sense? Zalanthas seems like the type of place where no part of the animal would be wasted.

[Angela Christine]

Just so Creeper doesn't feel so lonely, I do agree that tavern food is probably a little over priced.  Well, actually, under-filling.  But I can't change the tavern food, or any code-type things, so I prefer to suggest alternatives that players can do for themselves.

AC

[Kronus]

I don't think I've ever had a character of mine actually buy the food for sale in the taverns. I agree with Creeper, it's ridiculously overpriced, especially when you consider that every character in the game starts with the cooking skill, and almost every city has some kind of grocery that sells raw and even prepared foods for far less than the taverns.

However...
Creeper also says that there aren't enough PC hunters in the game to feed the other PCs, which I don't necessarily think is true.  With my last hunter-type PC, on a typical day of uncontested hunting, I could bring back upwards of a dozen pieces of scrab meat, and maybe three or four or more heads. Sure, if I was hungry, I could easily eat half of those before getting full again, but...
If I had known that other PCs would actually buy the meat and cooked heads off of me (I was a very accomplished cook ), I probably would have both gone hunting more often than just when I was out of food, and not carried forty-stone worth of food around in my backpack after a trip.

None of that changes the fact that tavern food is hideously expensive. A certain establishment charges 66 'sid for a certain cooked root that any decent forager can dig up out of the ground and cook for free.
Think about that. 66 'sid. That's two gallons of water at the Allanak temple. Water. With that much water, you could grow thirty of those certain roots. It's out of control.

[Callisto]

That brings up another issue.. people don't value water as much as they should. The prices should at least be doubled, while food prices on common stuff (such as scrab meat in any form) could be lowered a little bit. Things like carru meat and other stuff that would be important should probably be made more expensive, though...

THE WHOLE COOK YOUR OWN FOOD DOESN'T COME CLOSE TO DEALING WITH THE TOPIC THAT TAVERN FOODS ARE OVER PRICED AND DOESN'T DO MUCH FOR HUNGER.

.... maybe not in your little world, Creeper. To the rest of the surface dwellers though, cooking your own food is an ideal way of dealing with the somewhat high price of tavern food. If your character is not making enough money to comfortably eat meals in a tavern then they should probably cook their own food.

I'll also note that if people who went in and sat around in the taverns actually ordered a drink once and a while, that perhaps the owners wouldn't need to jack up the prices so high. You are more or less asking the staff to lower the prices on food in the Gaj? Start being a regular PAYING patron who orders more then conversation while sitting around the tavern. I have no doubt at all if people started to order more food and drink more ale, rather then just lounge around taking up space, the staff would lower the prices a little to reflect 'times are good' in said tavern. Likewise though, I would hope they raise prices when 'times aren't so good'.

Just thoughts.

[Rindan]

That brings up another issue.. people don't value water as much as they should. The prices should at least be doubled, while food prices on common stuff (such as scrab meat in any form) could be lowered a little bit. Things like carru meat and other stuff that would be important should probably be made more expensive, though...

I couldn't agree more.  I would absolutely love to see water prices get jacked up and city dehydration rates go up.  A city dweller doesn't need to drink anything other then the rare ale when times are good, yet scrapes for food.  I would much rather see water be a concern then food.

[creeper386]

You are more or less asking the staff to lower the prices on food in the Gaj? Start being a regular PAYING patron who orders more then conversation while sitting around the tavern.

Acctually, I do eat and drink in the taverns. Eating even the cheap stuff you can spend 300 'sid in a day or two IC. And it's not just the Gaj, even Trader's food is overpriced, it's not just for nobles who have a near unlimited amount of 'sid, it's for merchants and such. Mostly higher class folk, but when they can get food else where for nothing or just alittle, they don't buy anything there either, I imagine if they had the money to eat at Trader's they'd have the money to hire their own cook and probably a personally hunter as well.


Collect all this stuff up, it doesn't really fit together, and maybe people may not pay attention to it, but food and drink is an important part of the world, and when it's all twisted up and screwed over it doesn't exactly look good on the rest of the world. I've just acctually payed attention to it. Because most the time I went the route of hunting my own food or eating travel cakes, but that doesn't really work.

Creeper

[Fedaykin]

And it's not just the Gaj, even Trader's food is overpriced, it's not just for nobles who have a near unlimited amount of 'sid, it's for merchants and such. Mostly higher class folk, but when they can get food else where for nothing or just alittle, they don't buy anything there either, I imagine if they had the money to eat at Trader's they'd have the money to hire their own cook and probably a personally hunter as well.

Part of being apart of the "higher class folk" as you put it, is the status and symbolism of such a position.  Most houses/families do in fact have cooks and such and if they never wanted to eat in the Traders, they don't have to.  

However, its the fact that you do eat in the Traders despite the high prices that helps to establish you as part of an elitist class.  Its the statement saying "I can eat anything anytime anywhere despite the costs because I'm just that fucking good and I don't need to worry about the sid."

Take real life celebrities for instance.  They can all, and in many cases do, hire their own personal chefs and such.  Still, they continue to go out to overpriced restaurants which might not even have the best of food because its the thing to do and they have to play that game.  Hell, just look at oxygen bars, or even bottled water.  Oxygen is free and yet rich folks still go to these ridiculously stupid bars and pay to breathe in "pure" oxygen.  They also buy over priced bottles of "designer" water which is probably no better for you or cleaner than tap water.

Make a merchant and go into the Traders, grumble about the prices and about how you refuse to pay to eat there and see if everyone in the room who considers themself elite doesn't suddenly look down upon you.

You pay that price because you can.

[SwanSwanHummingbird]

Hmm, I always thought Gaj food was decently priced, and it was the Trader's that was insanely expensive.  

Recently, I've been playing a character who has got to be the richest character in the game who doesn't have access to free food.  Even I couldn't afford to eat in the Trader's, for Tek's sake.  No one can afford that on a daily basis.  If you just want to waste money for an image, sure, but -no one- actually eats there to bring their character from "you feel hungry" to "you're too full to eat more."

I did actually eat in the Gaj on occasion to get full, but of course, I'm rich and shouldn't generally be seen there.  If the Gaj has to rely on people like my character, it's going out of business quick because I was certainly not one of the target customers.

99% of the time I ate kalan fruit and loaves of bread from the grocer's.

Maybe it's true that the price of travel cakes should be raised and the price of everything else should be lowered, to make things make sense.  I don't think it would affect the "harshness" level any as long as they raise the price of travel cakes, which are insanely cheap.