Tribal Accented Sirihish

[Bebop]

The only way to have this accent is to pick the Nomadic class or special app but that takes forever and it's such a small detail if the rest of the character is mundane.  I don't think it's entirely fair that people who want to play tribal humans have to sacrifice a subguild for this.

Also when you start in Luir's you recieve a northern accent.  But Luir's isn't really northern, infact it's in the red desert, but neither is it southern.  That is such a great thing about Luir's because it's neutral!  I have had characters and seen characters before that are kind of tribal/gypsy and they come from Luir's and like to play light hearted tribal like neutral characters from Luir's.  But the problem is even if you don't have a Tuluki caste tattoo, you can pose as a northerner, and southerns immediately brand you northern.  Even if they hold nothing against Luir's and they immediately outcast you, so even if you're from Luir's you can not be nuetral like one of their citizens would be.

Luir's also thrives with tribals and gypsies more so then any northern Tuluki.

HERE IS MY IDEA:

I think that when you start out in Luir's you should be able to select tribal accented sirihish.  I know you can make it to where you get tattoos in Tuluk at creation, so I'm betting this is no problem.  You could choose tribal or northern, and actually be able to play a Luir's character without getting branded as Tuluki which isn't the truth.  In fact I think tribal should be for everyone who starts on in Luir's they are -not- northern.  And I don't really think it's accurate to have only nomads sound tribal.  Luir's has it's own culture.  The accent could express that.

I'm not even saying you should get bendune starting out in Luir's (though I wouldn't object to it.)  It would be used all over Luir's and it's not to far from the tablelands so tribal humans could start in the human outpost like d elves start in the elf outpost.  Half elves get an extra language based on realism starting out, why not people from Luir's?  (The bendune wouldn't start out perfect of course.)  But the main thing for me is the accent.  I don't want to be branded Tuluki when I'm from Luirs.

[Tamarin]

I say just give Luir's a distinct accent.  That'd solve all those problems real fast.

[Desertman (not logged in)]

I think you should get the option at creation when you pick Luir's as a starting location to select either northern, southern, or tribal accents.

[picklehead]

If you have a background that is tribal, you can always email in and ask to have the accent added to your character.

[Bebop]

If you have a background that is tribal, you can always email in and ask to have the accent added to your character.

If an IMM vouches for this, then I think this would be fine too.  But sometimes IMMs aren't available upon creation.  And people wishing up could be a hassle for the IMMs, but if they said that this was alternative, I suppose that would work.  But it seems that special app is really the only way to get it approved by the IMMs so far.  Which I already mentioned can take over a month and really isn't worth it for one detail of a mundane character.

[LauraMars]

I think it would be best if you could choose your accent in the HoK, independant of your starting area.

For instance (just an example for ease of explaination) each newly rolled char gets an "accent" token, which stands for one accent, that they can put into the appropriate slot.

Tribal, rinthi, northern, and southern accents would all be available, so you could start in the north, but have a southern accent.  Start in the rinth, and have a northern accent, etc.

If you did not use your "accent token" before pointing to the area you wished to start in, you'd start with the default for that area.

I think this would be a nice feature.

[Delirium]

Admit it, you people just want to have that sexy tribal accent.

[bloodfromstone]

I would love the option to choose accent upon creation.

[Old Kank]

I think "tribal-accented sirihish" is a bit of a misnomer.  Unlike northern and southern accents, the tribal accent is based on another language.

So, yeah, you should have to sacrifice a sub-class for it, or play in an actual tribe.

OK

[Tarx]

And you can pick up the accent on your own anyway.

[Yokunama]

The only way to have this accent is to pick the Nomadic class or special app but that takes forever and it's such a small detail if the rest of the character is mundane.  I don't think it's entirely fair that people who want to play tribal humans have to sacrifice a subguild for this.

I have mixed feelings about this issue.

Really, it is the same as the linguist guild, except you are only getting an accent and another language instead of two entire different languages. Accents, IMO, are very powerful, because they can determine people's first impression and the they feel about you.

Come to think of it, there are some characters that can start out with the two tribal language skills and with a subguild, besides Nomadic, in their skillset.

If there are other skills you wish to have added to your character, I think you could e-mail asking for them, as long as you had the background to support it.

Since we are getting more starting locations, you might be able to start in a location that gives you the two skills you wish to have, and maybe we could do away with the Nomadic subguild. ~shrugs~


[Note] All tribes and tribal PCs do not have the tribal language and accent. It is not needed to give your character a tribal feel/feeling

[Maybe42or54]

I think we could use even more subguilds with different mixes of skills, since they are skills acquired independantly of your main guild.

[rishenko]

If you take a look at real life accents, your accent is determined first and foremost by your parents, secondly by your surrounding environment.  So, the case could be argued that if you did not have tribal parents and half the people you grew up around were northern that you would have a northern accent.  However, it could be just as easy for a kid growing up surrounded by tribals to have said accent.

I myself can easily slip into a southern accent and use the local idioms in my conversations, or articulate my words carefully and lose the accent altogether.  I'm sure that most of the people playing Arm are the same way.  *shrug*

Personally, I think characters starting in Luir's should start with either a tribal accent or some "middleton" accent, or get to choose between northern and tribal.

[Larrath]

I think that the tribal accent should be kept to characters that, surprisingly enough, come from tribes.  In fact, I'd like to see the tribal accent simply ridiculed in the city-states.  To me it implies that the language is being spoken incorrectly with misplaced emphases and mispronunced words and sometimes even peppered with Allundean or Bendune phrases that regular city-folk don't understand.

The fact is that at the moment, the Tribal accent is very popular because it allows a character to be treated reasonably well in all game locations.  Having a tribal accent means that you can hide what city-state you're from and avoiding being hassled/killed for it.  Now, picking up a tribal accent in order to do that is very nice, but it's no reason why city-based characters should use it.  If you want to have a tribal accent without being a real tribal character, learn the accent in-game.

In fact, I'd like to suggest that characters with a tribal accent would gradually lose the accent if they don't talk to other tribal-accented people or use Bendune regularly.
If you take an Ebonics-fluent black guy and toss him in the middle of New York and let him live there for twenty years without contact with other Ebonics-talking people, it's very likely he'll move on to a different accent or at least seriously alter his Ebonics, and he'll do that either as a conscious choice to be better accepted or as a result of osmosis from the New Yorkers.

Luir's is definitely not full of tribals.  Luir's have tribals passing through, but a tribal character isn't going to grow up in Luir's.  Luir's is full of Kuracis and traders of all sorts, mostly.
Luir's based PCs should get a choice between a Northern and a Southern accent, but not tribal.

[jhunter]

In fact, I'd like to suggest that characters with a tribal accent would gradually lose the accent if they don't talk to other tribal-accented people or use Bendune regularly.

I agree with all you said except this part of it. Some tribal people speak languages besides bendune and there should still be a city version and a tribal version of the language.

[Larrath]

Okay.  Characters who don't use Bendune or tribal-accented Allundean could lose their Tribal accents.  I can't really think of any other language that should have any serious differences between the tribal and city versions.  Mirukkim?  Maybe.
Anyar has its own special accent, Heshrak is totally different, Kentu is a messed up language and Nrzzkt is barely even possible to pronounce.

[Marauder Moe]

Seems to me that the new accent code gives people a chance to roleplay their characters losing their accent.  I don't think it needs to be enforced by code.

[Larrath]

Seems to me that the new accent code gives people a chance to roleplay their characters losing their accent.  I don't think it needs to be enforced by code.

I want to enforce this because, in general, people with tribal accents seem to cling to them like the valuable treasures that they are.  Sadly, I don't think most people would throw away the advantage of a tribal accent (being able to go anywhere virtually unmolested) and that's why I suggest the enforcement.

Since it would depend on the PC being around other tribal-accented PCs or using Bendune, it would leave true tribal characters unaffected.

[Marauder Moe]

I don't think it's a scientifically-proven or known enough fact that adults will lose an accent if not exposed to it for a while.  I think some characters may be old or stubborn and would intentionally keep up their accent.  

I've also known foreigners who lived in America for years and years who still had their accents.  Even though most who were fluent in English were able to approximate an American accent very well, they still tended to speak in their native accent.

So there's my anecdotal evidence against whatever anecdotal evidence anyone wants to bring up.  After that, we'll just have to agree to disagree I suppose.

[marko]

I'm not sure how Luir's would qualify as getting a tribal accent.

Luir's isn't tribal.  The people in Luir's aren't all tribal.

I would suggest that the majority of people that end up in Luir's come from other locations and aren't born there.

The predominate accent that is spoken in Luir's, at this time, appears to be Northern.  Therefore, people who do grow up in Luir's would grow up speaking with a Northern accent.

Tribals should get the tribal accent.  No one else.  That means being part of a true tribe.

Is there a case to make some sort of minor accent for Luir's?  Maybe.  Personally I don't think Luir's is that distinct from the rest of the game world to really justify it.  'cause if you do Luir's you need to do Red Storm, Red Storm East, Cenyr, Blackwing, and any other minor outpost in the game.

I can see a case for selecting between northern _or_ southern accent if you are selecting Luir's as your starting location but not tribal.

[EvilRoeSlade]

The only way to have this accent is to pick the Nomadic class or special app but that takes forever and it's such a small detail if the rest of the character is mundane.  I don't think it's entirely fair that people who want to play tribal humans have to sacrifice a subguild for this.

The purpose of a subguild is to lend believability to your character's background.  If the nomad subguild does that, pick the nomad subguild.  Cry me a river, you aren't sacrificing anything.

I think that the accent code works perfect just the way it is.

[facehugger]

The only way to have this accent is to pick the Nomadic class or special app but that takes forever and it's such a small detail if the rest of the character is mundane.  I don't think it's entirely fair that people who want to play tribal humans have to sacrifice a subguild for this.

If you try, you will find that the staff is often quite willing to help with such little things as accents. When you're in the starting hall, wish up, see if there's someone who can help change your accent. I'd imagine they'd have you pick your start location, and would be more than willing to change your accent to your request, so long as it was a logical that fit with your background.

[Maybe42or54]

Especially with the new request forms.

I submitted two things and got them corrected the next day. Wow. that is unheard of a month ago.

[Bebop]

The only way to have this accent is to pick the Nomadic class or special app but that takes forever and it's such a small detail if the rest of the character is mundane.  I don't think it's entirely fair that people who want to play tribal humans have to sacrifice a subguild for this.

The purpose of a subguild is to lend believability to your character's background.  If the nomad subguild does that, pick the nomad subguild.  Cry me a river, you aren't sacrificing anything.

I think that the accent code works perfect just the way it is.

What I'm saying is, what if you have a nomadic warrior, how are they going to hunt for themselves?  They can't pick a subguild that has skin.  What if you want to play a tribal human -and- bard or guard or anything like that.  You can't, you have to sacrifice the subguild just to sound like you are from a tribe.

And there are a lot of tribals in Luir's so I think it's reasonable that people from there would sound tribal.

[UnderSeven]

Wow this is way over board.  

Bebop is tring to make a suggestion, but some of the responses being given are enough to drive people away from posting any ideas on this board.  I don't personally feel strongly on this issue one way or another, but some of the disagreements with Bebop are taking this way to far.  

Geeze tone down the disagreements, standing alone with a suggestion is really hard, the last thing someone needs is to see themself quoted a bunch of times with varying degrees of unpleasant picking apart of their ideas.  

"Cry me a river"?  Come on, way to far.

[Maybe42or54]

Well bebop. You are always sacrificing one thing for another thing. I would love more combinations of skills to make subguilds, which may be very hard to balance. They just don't look to have been updated in a while. It is a lot easier now though, to get a new accent.

Just go here.
http://www.armageddon.org/login.php?returnURL=/request/index.php
Log in.
Character Related Request-> Skill Change-> Details
I made a tribal Pc, but I sacrificed the nomad subclass for one that makes more sense with my Pc. Can I have the tribal accent added to my skills?
Thank you.->
Review your request-> Submit request->

[Angela Christine]

What I'm saying is, what if you have a nomadic warrior, how are they going to hunt for themselves?  They can't pick a subguild that has skin.  

Be a ranger?  

I get what you are saying, and it does suck.  It wouldn't bother me nearly as much if it also affect elves, but a tribal human having to use a subguild slot for their heritage while tribal elves get it for free just isn't fair.

Maybe there should be a new race:  desert humans?  


Angela Christine

[Maybe42or54]

Desert elves don't get tribal accents for free. Desert elves are fucked with in every city. Where as tribal humans are treated like gods.

[Tamarin]

Desert elves are treated like shit not because they don't have the tribal accent...they're treated like shit because they are elves.

[Vanth]

I'm not sure I agree that tribal-accented humans somehow have it easier, or that if they do, this is unfair.  

If you have a tribal accent, you most likely can't get work with any noble house, but you might be able to get work with a merchant house...exactly the same treatment as if you had the 'wrong' accent for that city.

If you have a tribal accent, you probably won't get shunned or harassed in bars and other gathering spots, but...most tribes are neutral when it comes to city-states, so that makes sense.  Sure, southerners are suspicious of people who come from Luir's, but southerners aren't known for being very nice anyway.

Personally, my gripe with people who choose the tribal accent is when they spend 80-100% of their time in cities.  Tribal culture is vastly different from city culture.  True tribal peoples should feel uncomfortable staying within a city's walls for too long.  Sure, they come to visit, trade, make contacts, get laid, etc. but then they should leave again.

[Bebop]

BTW Just so we're clear I'm not even saying get rid of the nomad sub-class, this is just an idea for people who are in Luir's who really don't belong to one of the two major city states.  That way they won't have to sacrifice a sub-guild just to play their character that way.  Nomad sub-class can still be there for those that speak perfect bendune and want those other skills that I'm not going to disclose.

And like Vanth said having a tribal accent isn't a free ticket to nuetality exactly because there are a lot of noble Houses that won't hire you if you are not full blood from their city state, which I find reasonable.  I don't think it's a huge sacrifice or change to the game.  Just another option, and I don't know about you guys, but I like options.

Just an option for people who come from Luir's, and if you walk around the market place in Luir's you are mostly going to find tribals there.  You are going to find them in the bar, you're going to find them all over Luirs.  And even in some docs it states that many some tribes have had some of their people withdraw into Luirs.

Just an option that I personally would like to see implemented.  I definitely think it has it's uses.

And thanks UnderSeven, I agree that some of the comments in here were a little heated, considering this is just a friendly idea.

As far as picking a ranger as a nomad so that they can be adept in the wild that is once again kind of pushing people who simply want to sound tribal into a class.   I don't want to go over the exact skills a nomad has, but let me post this from the docs:

Code Select Expand

Nomads, usually originating in the tablelands around Luir's Outpost, speak their own native tongue, Bendune, and are adept at shrewd bartering in the desert markets. If you are playing a character with a nomadic background, you must pick this subclass.

So yeah, that is basically making some one who wants to play a kid from Luir's that grew up speaking to the tribals that bed there into picking cliche stuff like spear making and unable to play something that would be more of use to their character.  You could opt simply for the accent and not be forced into the others skills of the Nomad class, you won't start out perfect with bendune if at all, and you won't have the nomad skills.  But I think it's perfectly legitimate that people from Luir's have the option for a tribal accent without having to be forced into the cliche skills of a nomad, instead of something more suiting to their character.  

Nomads, usually originating in the tablelands around Luir's Outpost

Anyway, it's not something you would FORCED to use.  Like the Nomad sub guild currently forces tribal characters (people that simply aren't raised in one of the large city states) to choose a sub-guild that might not have skills suiting to their character just because they need the accent.

[Anonymous]

I think Luir's Folks Should have an accent regarded as central, so, Central Sirihish, etc.

As is noted elsewhere in documentation, Luir's is at the center of the world. Central is center.

Venomz - having connection problems...

[facehugger]

One thing you have to realize about Luirs.. is that it really isn't a population center. It's an outpost. A trading post. People pass through, use it as a waypoint, pause to trade. I don't think very many people actually -live- there beyond the Kurac. You'll notice there is no provided housing. And the only people who are born there are likely children of Kuraci. So it would likely fall into the "hodgepodge" catagory.

[Bestatte]

Nomads...speak their native tongue Bendune...

which is -why- they speak sirihish with a tribal accent. So if you don't speak Bendune, you wouldn't normally have that accent when you speak sirihish.

It seems more like a misnomer, that it's called "tribal" when not all tribes speak Bendune. But a "bendune accent" sounds silly, just like "allundean-accented sirihish" sounds silly. If -all- tribes have the same accent, it would make sense for all tribals to have one "accented sirihish." But they don't, so it doesn't. So - that brings you back to square 1: If Bendune is your character's main language, you'll get the accent. Pretend that "tribal" is another way of saying "Bendune" and the problem will be solved.

[Yokunama]

One thing you have to realize about Luirs.. is that it really isn't a population center. It's an outpost. A trading post. People pass through, use it as a waypoint, pause to trade. I don't think very many people actually -live- there beyond the Kurac. You'll notice there is no provided housing. And the only people who are born there are likely children of Kuraci. So it would likely fall into the "hodgepodge" catagory.

Some people live there, because you can get citizenship in the outpost if your character wishes to have it. Those big tents and buildings set up in the marketyard are not there for nothing - I think most of the merchants use them for shelter as well as their shop. I do recall seeing some lean-tos and other makeshift shelters outside the gates of Luris, and I think they are for those who can not afford to spend the night in the tavern or live on the inside of the gates.

[facehugger]

One thing you have to realize about Luirs.. is that it really isn't a population center. It's an outpost. A trading post. People pass through, use it as a waypoint, pause to trade. I don't think very many people actually -live- there beyond the Kurac. You'll notice there is no provided housing. And the only people who are born there are likely children of Kuraci. So it would likely fall into the "hodgepodge" catagory.

Some people live there, because you can get citizenship in the outpost if your character wishes to have it. Those big tents and buildings set up in the marketyard are not there for nothing - I think most of the merchants use them for shelter as well as their shop. I do recall seeing some lean-tos and other makeshift shelters outside the gates of Luris, and I think they are for those who can not afford to spend the night in the tavern or live on the inside of the gates.

That's why I said "not very many" not "not any". Certainly some people live there. Probably more for week/year periods than lifetime periods, I'd wager. Regardless, the majority of the people in/moving through Luirs are not there to stay. When you have a constant mix of accents, there's really no room for a unique "Luirs" accent to develop.

[Yokunama]

One thing you have to realize about Luirs.. is that it really isn't a population center. It's an outpost. A trading post. People pass through, use it as a waypoint, pause to trade. I don't think very many people actually -live- there beyond the Kurac. You'll notice there is no provided housing. And the only people who are born there are likely children of Kuraci. So it would likely fall into the "hodgepodge" catagory.

Some people live there, because you can get citizenship in the outpost if your character wishes to have it. Those big tents and buildings set up in the marketyard are not there for nothing - I think most of the merchants use them for shelter as well as their shop. I do recall seeing some lean-tos and other makeshift shelters outside the gates of Luris, and I think they are for those who can not afford to spend the night in the tavern or live on the inside of the gates.

That's why I said "not very many" not "not any". Certainly some people live there. Probably more for week/year periods than lifetime periods, I'd wager. Regardless, the majority of the people in/moving through Luirs are not there to stay. When you have a constant mix of accents, there's really no room for a unique "Luirs" accent to develop.

You also have the gemmers lurking about, upsetting and scaring off the northern merchants and anti-magicker tribals. :wink:

[Bebop]

Just because there are not coded apartments doesn't mean that people don't live there.  It just means PCs don't have a place other then the tents which there are quiet a few of and the taverns.  In the docs it even says that some tribals have moved from the tablelands because of attacks and live there now.

[Cegar]

You'll notice there is no provided housing.

Wrong.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

There is highly visible housing in the Outpost, to a certian degree. Any recent visit to the Outpost would enlighten those who are not in the know. Keep in mind, however, that Kurac is not Nenyuk.