Unarmed combat- another option

[Seeker]

From time to time the idea of making unarmed combat more feasible pops up on the GDB.  Usually the idea is shot down because players don't want to see a bunch of "quivering palm of doom" monks scurrying about.  I agree.  Not the genre.  I'd just like to throw this out as an alternative.

Why not approach it in the same way Morgenes has approached "blind-fighting"?  There is already a pretty substantial penalty for fighting in combat without a weapon.  Why not, as a branched skill, (maybe off of dual-wield or two-handed) allow an "unarmed combat" skill for warriors and possibly assassin guilds?

This skill, after it is branched and develops, slowly works down the defensive penalty for fighting without a wielded weapon.  Might even evenually get a offensive moderate bonus like a weapons skill, properly tweaked and balanced so we don't have PCs knife-handing through braxat armor.
 
I think it might be a good addition to accurately reflect all the eye-poking, kneecap-smashing, backfist-to-the-gonads combat danger of engaging even an unarmed skilled warrior.


Seeker

[spawnloser]

I like this idea.  Don't make it strong enough to be a viable alternative for weapons...but reduce the ineffectiveness a bit through a branched skill?  I'd support this idea.

[grog]

While I wouldn't mind a backfist to Gonads skill, or even an eye-gouge skill (that branches from Backstab) for highly skilled assassins to blind people.    

Back on topic, I wouldn't mind some unarmed combat skills that are near useless against armor, as it is I just use bash and kick and creative emoting for the type of dirty fighting I think a rinth rat or a merc would do.

[Bogre]

Yeah. Make it a fallback skill, so that if you're good at unarmed you'll not get wiped out before you can grab yourself a weapon.

And if you're really good you might even be able to beat low-skilled opponents.

I.E. The lowbie thugger swings his axe at the unaware but uber fighter.

The uber fighter hears the thugger swing, and barely dodges out of the way!

emote:
The fighter grabs the thugger's arms and cracks it across it knee!

You graze the thugger with your punch.
You manage to land a solid punch to the thugger!

The thugger winces in pain as you grab his arm!



etc

[Folker]

I can imagine unarmed skill that would improve defence for the cost of offense. So say, while you are unarmed, your odds to dodge increase dramatically, but without the sleeves, you cannot parry at all. Nor can you deal any type of great damage. So it's a purely defense boosting skill, for a price of annihilating any offensive qualities.

This can be roleplayed out any type of way. From a skilled warrior being able to focus entirely on evasion in a close quarters combat, or a cowardly merchant running and rolling around tables and dunes, and boulders, etc (within the same locale untill he flees ofcourse).

[flaran]

I think that merchants should get this-- just so they don't insta-die as soon as anything touches them.  Maybe give it a cap just at the point where there's no negative.  Just an idea.

[bloodfromstone]

So long as the sheer power of unarmed hits is taken into consideration upon the addition of something like that, I'm all for unarmed skills. As it is, two decent unarmed strikes can KO someone. As long as fights ending like that don't become the norm, I'm cool with it.

[X-D]

Huh? 2 decent unarmed hits from what, A half-giant? Mul? AI str dwarf? 30+ day warrior/ranger? Verses a 2 day human or somesuch?

This is as it should be then.

Other then that, I've never seen such.

As to the thread topic, I don't have problem with it.

[bloodfromstone]

From a standard human vs. another standard human, from my experience. Grazing head hits completely obliterate stun. Neck can be pretty rough, too.

[Rindan]

From a standard human vs. another standard human, from my experience. Grazing head hits completely obliterate stun. Neck can be pretty rough, too.

The imms once clarified this.  The "grazing hit" part is just the damage done.  Those messages reflect only damage.  The stun damage is actually rolled seperatly.  So, you can have a hit that does very little HP damage, but nocks off 50 stun.

[Aldiel]

Yeah. Make it a fallback skill, so that if you're good at unarmed you'll not get wiped out before you can grab yourself a weapon.

And if you're really good you might even be able to beat low-skilled opponents.

I.E. The lowbie thugger swings his axe at the unaware but uber fighter.

The uber fighter hears the thugger swing, and barely dodges out of the way!

emote:
The fighter grabs the thugger's arms and cracks it across it knee!

You graze the thugger with your punch.
You manage to land a solid punch to the thugger!

The thugger winces in pain as you grab his arm!



etc

Yeah, what Bogre said.

[Vesperas]

Dunno about you folks, but I have a cousin who has, over the years, developed his own little 'fighting style.'  He isn't a martial artist, no sort of ninja, but he has gotten in to scrapes all his life over his Mama's Honor, and has what I would consider 'slightly above average' strength for a human male... but he is a scrawny, frail little guy, with easy-to-break bones.

But I've known him to one-hit KO'ing 'skilled' people twice his size in these 'scrapes', once out of ACCIDENT! (He was play-fighting with a friend)  He's just wrestled and play-fighted all his life (I used to fight with him all the time until his masculinity set in and he started to beat my ass in a far more serious manner).  It's because not only is he fast, he knows exactly how to hit and where to hit.  There is nothing elegant or trained about how he fights, but that doesn't change the fact that I'd put my money on him in a fight against a knife-wielding thug.

I wouldn't want to see the 'Thunder Fist' monks running around Armageddon, but I would LOVE to see this skill implemented with some degree of realism -- obviously, it would be utterly useless against heavy armors, leaving strikes only effective in unarmored slots, but very light armors susceptible to 'blunt' damage would be open.  And, obviously, a halfling wouldn't have a prayer in an unarmed fight against a half-giant.

------------------------------------------------------

If such a skill were to come into existence, I'd enjoy seeing it having a hand in brawling.  I'm not sure how brawling works right now, since I've never tried it, but seems interesting.

[Maybe42or54]

There are quite a few weapons Ig that use punching as the best way to attack, such as cestus and Katar Punch Daggers. You could pick up one of those, or a few others, since the code will make you act like you are wielding weapons. Why wear just bare fists when you can have a dagger-assisted punch?

[X-D]

Give me a pair of sawed off baseball bats and I'll take on any unarmed person on the planet, Or a morningstar, or mace or flail or sword or daggers or spear...etc, any weapon meant to kill/maim people.

Actually, I do best with a nine iron, I swear they are not really to hit that little white ball with but instead to go after annoying people on the links.

Sure, IRL, if some guy has some little knife, pocket style (less then 4 inch blade) I'm not worried about taking him on unarmed, and actually have an advantage of sorts.

But if somebody is coming at me with a weapon grade dagger, IE, better then 8 inches of steel that is not going to bend like a kitchen knife will and is ment to slide between ribs, like a bayonet.

You want to know what kind of unarmed fighting style I'm gonna use?

Its called turn around and run as fast as I can, I scrap, but I'm not stupid.

[Tyriel]

Perhaps with a hand to hand combat style the 'hit' attack is turned into a 'bludgeon' attack. This would include knees and elbows. Allow parry to function once this change occurs to a player.


Or, pair the 'kick' command with a 'strike' command which is for fists, chops and adjust the echoes for kicks to give the visual feel of a diverse array of attacks.

my 2 cents