Um, Game crashed I hope?

Started by Anonymous, March 05, 2006, 04:16:01 AM

Print
Go Down Pages1 2 3 4 All
User actions
March 05, 2006, 04:16:01 AM
Is it just me?
March 05, 2006, 04:17:09 AM #1
No :(
March 05, 2006, 01:32:35 PM #2
You can always check the home page to see if the game is currently running or not.  If it says that Armageddon is not running at that place right above the Recent News section, or if you can't access the home page after repeated attempts, it's a good bet that there was a crash.
Back from a long retirement
March 05, 2006, 03:00:55 PM #3
Well while I do appreciate the tip it would not have worked in this
particular situation. Instead of a 'crash' it was a "players are lagged
and nobody can do anything for five minutes while the game still
runs" sorta thing.

- Anon
March 06, 2006, 12:09:30 AM #4
This is happening a lot lately. Sometimes dangerous!
March 06, 2006, 12:11:07 AM #5
I demand a refund!
b]YB <3[/b]

March 06, 2006, 09:49:18 AM #6
I already spent your refund on meat pies and animal crackers.
March 06, 2006, 01:18:03 PM #7
Quote from: "Vesperas"crackers.

Hey, no racial slurs!

Question, though: Will the game crash or bog down if you get too many people in the same room?  This would seem logical, and yet, if it can handle that many people in different rooms simultaneously, is it really that different?

Edited to add:
Quote from: "Anonymous"Um, game crashed I hope?

How dare you. *shakes head*
Quote from: Lizzie on February 10, 2016, 09:37:57 PM
You know I think if James simply retitled his thread "Cheese" and apologized for his first post being off-topic, all problems would be solved.
March 06, 2006, 02:25:08 PM #8
Quote from: "James de Monet"Will the game crash or bog down if you get too many people in the same room?  This would seem logical, and yet, if it can handle that many people in different rooms simultaneously, is it really that different?

Well, in general, the game itself should be able to handle any number of users in the same room without creating any mayhem.  An issue that may be occurring here, though I haven't really investigated it, is that we're overloading our upstream capacity.  Here why:

In a room with two people, if one person performs an action (an emote, let's say), the server must send the text of that action to the performer and one other person.  Assuming a payload of 80 bytes (80 characters of text in the emote), and overhead of 40 (TCP headers), this means that as a result of that emote, ginka receives ~120 bytes of text.  It then adds on an sdesc (let's assume 30 character sdescs for the emoter) and resends the emote to everyone in the room (including the original sender).  The total upstream send, then, is probably something like 300 bytes ((30 sdesc, + 80 emote, + 40 TCP header,) * 2 sends).  Not bad.  What happens if there are 15 people in the room during this same emote?

Still the same 120 inbound becomes the same 150 per player in the room, which means 2250 bytes.  Still, not bad.  30 players is only 4500 bytes.


But what if all thirty players are moving all at the same time?  Now we get:

"So and so leaves to the west"  (if you're following later in the list, you'll see the people ahead of you leaving) OR
"So and so enters from the east" (if you moved earlier in the list, you'll see the people behind you entering) for every player, PLUS the additional cost of delivering the room text and its contents to each player...

So that works out to be (let's say) about 50 characters of text per-player (sdesc and a short emote, on average), sent to every other player, plus 40 bytes of TCP overhead per player -- assuming some stuff gets coallesced):

30 * 30 * 50 + (40 * 30)= 46200

PLUS room-text:

30 * 500 (four or five lines of 75-character-wide room description text and an item or two on the ground?  I'm probably being generous, since many of our room descriptions are longer and if this much activity is going on, people are bound to have dropped junk on the ground, killed something, left mounts behind, brought NPC guards along, etc. -- no TCP overhead, we're still assuming things are coallesced, though by now we must be getting fragmented) == 15000 for a grand total of about

60kb upstream cost, per move.  I don't know a whole lot about ginka's network topology unfortunately, but I suspect that this is also fine.  There may still be another problem, though, in the way Arm's socket code works.  If YOUR connection can't handle this much data coming down (it's not 60K per move for you, should be much less, in fact, but it's still measurable), the socket-code may be doing something very silly like waiting for YOUR socket to be writable before continuing to process the frame (which would be very very silly, indeed, but it's certainly possible)...

So, the answer to your question is:  while I think in most ways 30 players in the same room shouldn't be a problem, I can imagine "points of failure" where it might become an issue, whether those be in ginka's upstream link, or in the way our socket-code handles pushing out lots of data to the feeble pipes some of our players may have.

-- X
March 06, 2006, 02:58:46 PM #9
Sorry, what...?  :lol:
b]YB <3[/b]

March 06, 2006, 03:08:45 PM #10
I actually understood all that!
Child, child, if you come to this doomed house, what is to save you?

A voice whispers, "Read the tales upon the walls."
March 06, 2006, 08:13:18 PM #11
I... I think I might... I... almost... I... I GOT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!! SWEET!!!!!! 8)
March 06, 2006, 08:49:41 PM #12
Mmm, yeah, I hadn't thought about the multiplication of outbound data.  30 people in 30 rooms is a 1:1 inbound to outbound data equation:

1(action in room) * 1(echo recipient) * 30(rooms with actors)

But 30 people in the same room raises the amount of outgoing data exponentially:

30(actions in room) * 30(echo recipients) * 1(room with actors)

Makes sense to me.

Thanks Xygax!

Edit: And the 30*500 doesn't even take into account that the room text grows by one line for each new person as they enter the room, so you could be sending 30*500+50*(0,1,2...29) which comes out to 36750.
Quote from: Lizzie on February 10, 2016, 09:37:57 PM
You know I think if James simply retitled his thread "Cheese" and apologized for his first post being off-topic, all problems would be solved.
March 07, 2006, 01:46:21 AM #13
Quote from: "James de Monet"Edit: And the 30*500 doesn't even take into account that the room text grows by one line for each new person as they enter the room, so you could be sending 30*500+50*(0,1,2...29) which comes out to 36750.

I don't think that's quite right, but yeah it's another factor I missed (probably smaller than 30*500, though).

-- X
March 07, 2006, 03:46:56 AM #14
Quote from: "Thunder Lord"About how long would it take to rest so that it won't do the wierd login freeze?

While it's true that a good night's sleep will solve many problems, I'm not sure what you mean by "weird login freeze", and I am entirely unsure as to whether resting ginka will cause you to stop experiencing it...
March 07, 2006, 04:00:41 AM #15
I've been experiencing a strange freeze that's followed by a disconnect. When I reconnect it takes several times to get past the login without it freezing up and disconnecting me. This has only been happening since the changes and it comes and goes randomly it seems.
Quote from: Fnord on November 27, 2010, 01:55:19 PM
May the fap be with you, always. ;D
March 07, 2006, 04:01:00 AM #16
QuoteI'm not sure what you mean by "weird login freeze", and I am entirely unsure as to whether resting ginka will cause you to stop experiencing it...

I think I know, it happened either last night or the night before, too. All the sudden the game will get incredibly laggy, then freeze up entirely. Eventually you either log off or it disconnects you. Wait a minute, log back on and it boots up just fine, but, the minute you try to do anything you realize it's completely frozen up again.

This's happened to me a couple times lately. Took me 15 minutes the other night, just to be able to log on long enough I could sign out instead of just be linkdead. Tonight wasn't as bad, maybe 7-10ish minutes for it to clear up enough I could stand, move one room, and quit out.
Quote from: jhunterI'm gonna show up at your home and violate you with a weedeater.  :twisted:
March 07, 2006, 09:33:03 AM #17
Quote from: "InsertCleverNameHere"
QuoteI'm not sure what you mean by "weird login freeze", and I am entirely unsure as to whether resting ginka will cause you to stop experiencing it...

I think I know, it happened either last night or the night before, too. All the sudden the game will get incredibly laggy, then freeze up entirely. Eventually you either log off or it disconnects you. Wait a minute, log back on and it boots up just fine, but, the minute you try to do anything you realize it's completely frozen up again.

I had that as well. it -acted- like a runaway process. It was very short lived and I simply disconnected the session and logged back in a few moments later.
quote="Morgenes"]
Quote from: "The Philosopher Jagger"You can't always get what you want.
[/quote]
March 07, 2006, 02:25:05 PM #18
Okay, this is getting annoying... Arm just crashed for the third time in 10 minutes. 5th or 6th time today.  :?
b]YB <3[/b]

March 07, 2006, 02:27:17 PM #19
It seems to me that these seem to be happening within 5-10 minutes of the hour change each time.  I could be wrong, and that could just be a skewed perception, though.  Just throwing out this info for confirmation.

Morrolan
"I have seen him show most of the attributes one expects of a noble: courtesy, kindness, and honor.  I would also say he is one of the most bloodthirsty bastards I have ever met."
March 07, 2006, 02:29:14 PM #20
It's been happening for about half an hour now. I can't stay connected to the game for more than 2 or 3 minutes at a time without getting the freeze and disconnect.
Then it takes me several tries to get through the login menu.
Quote from: Fnord on November 27, 2010, 01:55:19 PM
May the fap be with you, always. ;D
March 07, 2006, 02:32:48 PM #21
Arm isn't crashing (to clear up these misperceptions), it's lagging us.  The powers that be are working on getting this issue cleared up.
-Ash
March 07, 2006, 05:11:22 PM #22
Really curious as to why it's happening.  Please fill us in, powers that be.
hang is actually...
March 07, 2006, 05:29:20 PM #23
Quote from: "ashyom"Arm isn't crashing (to clear up these misperceptions), it's lagging us.  The powers that be are working on getting this issue cleared up.
-Ash

Thanks, Ash.

Code Select
>drop pants
You do not have that item.
March 07, 2006, 06:08:18 PM #24
Actually, to clear up the clear-up, we believe that the events are happening upstream of us, which means that the "powers that be" are folks at SBC.

-- X
March 07, 2006, 06:12:22 PM #25
I hate SBC.  :x

Can't Halaster kill them or something?
Quote from: Vesperas...You have to ask yourself... do you love your PC more than you love its contribution to the game?
March 07, 2006, 06:13:47 PM #26
He would need an IC reason.
b]YB <3[/b]

March 07, 2006, 06:14:30 PM #27
Halaster has actually been sent on several occasions to destroy their many minions and has never returned with any result less than success.  Unfortunately, they multiply more quickly than even Hal's foul stench and ruthless, wanton destructiveness can overcome.

-- X
March 07, 2006, 07:00:28 PM #28
Quote from: "Xygax"Halaster has actually been sent on several occasions to destroy their many minions and has never returned with any result less than success.  Unfortunately, they multiply more quickly than even Hal's foul stench and ruthless, wanton destructiveness can overcome.

-- X

Would waving pieces of 'money'-green paper help give Halaster the power to kill SBC to fix the problem?

Join us next time on (Music: Dun dun dun!) Armageddon!

Code Select
>drop pants
You do not have that item.
March 07, 2006, 07:29:24 PM #29
Yeah, every time I lag out I tracert ginka.armageddon.org, and it is ALWAYS Snet that is timing out.
March 07, 2006, 07:45:29 PM #30
It hurts.  Please make it stop.


Seeker
Sitting in your comfort,
You don't believe I'm real,
But you cannot buy protection
from the way that I feel.
March 07, 2006, 09:35:27 PM #31
Yeah...it was fixed for awhile but it seems to be back.
...so instead of stealing an uneaten one, like a normal person, I decided I wanted the one already in her mouth."

Best movies EVAR:
1. Boondock Saints
2. Green Street Hooligans
3. Fight Club

Norman Reedus is my hero.
March 07, 2006, 09:38:29 PM #32
*sobs*
March 07, 2006, 09:38:54 PM #33
The connection bar just keeps spinning...and spinning...and spinning...
Child, child, if you come to this doomed house, what is to save you?

A voice whispers, "Read the tales upon the walls."
March 07, 2006, 09:42:07 PM #34
Quote from: "Fragmented"*sobs*

ditto. i was having great fun.
...so instead of stealing an uneaten one, like a normal person, I decided I wanted the one already in her mouth."

Best movies EVAR:
1. Boondock Saints
2. Green Street Hooligans
3. Fight Club

Norman Reedus is my hero.
March 07, 2006, 09:45:29 PM #35
Seems to be doing it more often.

Somebody wake me up when it stops so I can log in.

Spawnloser, what galaxy you playing on Ogame and planet name, I need to raid for supplies:)

Have to admit, mildly addicting and nice backround game.

And any time you see 36+ people on the GDB, thats proof there is a problem with the game. Just like crashes during RPT's, poof, everybody to GDB...chuckle.
A gaunt, yellow-skinned gith shrieks in fear, and hauls ass.
Lizzie:
If you -want- me to think that your character is a hybrid of a black kryl and a white push-broom shaped like a penis, then you've done a great job
March 07, 2006, 09:52:42 PM #36
Ok, somebody take the mud offline for 3 minutes, hit the system restore, and go back to the old OS.  :twisted:
March 07, 2006, 09:54:20 PM #37
No dude, it's Snet, which is short for Smurfnet.  Or Sucksnet.  Or something.

It's not the game.
 n
[Near]
The lauramarsian, female human is standing here, patiently.

You think:
 "She almost makes it too easy..."

This post was most likely written by a belligerent drunk, please chase with salt.
March 07, 2006, 09:56:05 PM #38
ShitNet
Quote from: Fnord on November 27, 2010, 01:55:19 PM
May the fap be with you, always. ;D
March 07, 2006, 11:55:17 PM #39
Krath dammit it's back!! Right at a really important bit of rp too!
...so instead of stealing an uneaten one, like a normal person, I decided I wanted the one already in her mouth."

Best movies EVAR:
1. Boondock Saints
2. Green Street Hooligans
3. Fight Club

Norman Reedus is my hero.
March 08, 2006, 12:50:15 AM #40
My spider senses tell me the game is down:

In total there are 18 users online :: 14 Registered, 2 Hidden and 2 Guests   [ Administrator ]   [ Moderator ]
Most users ever online was 75 on Tue Jan 25, 2005 2:41 am
Registered Users: Briarfox, Desertman, Fragmented, Inklings, Jherlen, Ktavialt, Larrath, Medena, Only He Stands There, pages2start, rishenko, Supreme Allah, ThirdEye, UnderSeven
March 08, 2006, 08:40:57 AM #41
Quote from: "X-D"Spawnloser, what galaxy you playing on Ogame and planet name, I need to raid for supplies:)
Heh, good luck man...I'm in universe 14...planet name is Shire Ferret (I'm CrackFerret on Ogame).
Quote from: MalifaxisWe need to listen to spawnloser.
Quote from: Reiterationspawnloser knows all

Quote from: SpoonA magicker is kind of like a mousetrap, the fear is the cheese. But this cheese has an AK47.
March 08, 2006, 08:49:55 AM #42
Quote from: "spawnloser"
Quote from: "X-D"Spawnloser, what galaxy you playing on Ogame and planet name, I need to raid for supplies:)
Heh, good luck man...I'm in universe 14...planet name is Shire Ferret (I'm CrackFerret on Ogame).
aw, come join us on 10 spawn

Quote from: "X-D"Somebody wake me up when it stops so I can log in.
and seriously, what is up with snet!
quote="CRW"]i very nearly crapped my pants today very far from my house in someone else's vehicle, what a day[/quote]
March 08, 2006, 10:54:42 AM #43
I'm working on a hunch that it may not be an ISP issue, based on the regularity of the outages. In the case of the ISP being borked, it is usually either borked, or not borked. I have not seen it only be borked every hour on the hour. Keep in mind throughout this that traceroute is a useless opiate of the masses.

So, it's possible we're being search-engined, or are getting a large amount of spam during these times. I've throttled back the web server some (back to what it was set to before the OS upgrade), and I'm going to keep an eye on it.

I haven't experienced this lag yet, every time I'm on everything seems to be fine. So next time it happens, could one or two of you (not everybody) post the exact time here, that it happens? That way I can compare those times to our logs and see if something in particular is hitting us during those times. Our web logs seem to indicate spikes around 12:00, 15:00, and 20:00, EST, so far.

Thanks,

-S
March 09, 2006, 04:11:13 AM #44
One started at about 4 am EST, today (March 9).
quote="mansa"]emote pees in your bum[/quote]
March 09, 2006, 11:00:07 AM #45
The aforementioned lag burp started at 3:06 am and lasted unitl 3:19 am.

CST.
For those who knew him, my husband Jay, known as Becklee from time to time on Arm, died August 17th, 2008, from complications of muscular dystrophy.
March 10, 2006, 03:23:56 AM #46
Also, something else I've noticed since the new OS is zone lag is back, been gone for a couple years, was wondering if we should be reporting that too?
A gaunt, yellow-skinned gith shrieks in fear, and hauls ass.
Lizzie:
If you -want- me to think that your character is a hybrid of a black kryl and a white push-broom shaped like a penis, then you've done a great job
March 10, 2006, 03:26:34 AM #47
What exactly is your definition of "zone lag"?
March 10, 2006, 04:09:10 AM #48
Alright, its when certain areas lag every time you enter them.

One that has been around forever is the first couple spaces south of the walls of tuluk, east and west.

Its only a slight lag, maybe a second or two, but noticable and applies to all actions.

For a long time it did it west of the tuluk west gate to about 10 rooms south and 12 rooms or so west (never tested north) Then, it was gone, now, it seems it may be back.

Couple other spots too, but they are less known, probly considered IC, so I won't mention here. But I was wondering if we should in game, bug them or something?
A gaunt, yellow-skinned gith shrieks in fear, and hauls ass.
Lizzie:
If you -want- me to think that your character is a hybrid of a black kryl and a white push-broom shaped like a penis, then you've done a great job
March 10, 2006, 04:10:19 AM #49
Another lag spike hit at 4am EST.
March 10, 2006, 04:14:06 AM #50
That's just God's way of telling all of you to GO TO SLEEP ALREADY.
At least, that's how it is for you guys. I'm no mere mortal, mwahahaaah. But seriously, I hope all this stuff is resolved soon. I was beginning to think I was going to have to lay the smack down on my internet connection.
Keepin' it dusty,
                     Mr.B

EvilRoeSlade: "There's something seriously wrong when I say aide and everyone hears whore."
March 10, 2006, 10:12:05 AM #51
Quote from: "Delirium"Another lag spike hit at 4am EST.

Huh. 4 AM every time, but not other times. Ginka runs its nightly housekeeping jobs at 4AM. I wonder if it gets so busy doing that, it lags you out. That seems unlikely, but if the only time you guys are getting bumped is then, I'll take a look and see what it's doing.

-S
March 10, 2006, 04:14:11 PM #52
I've noticed a fair amount of lag incidents between 9 and 10pm EST.
I hope life isn't just one big joke, because I don't get it.  -- Jack Handy
March 11, 2006, 04:08:20 AM #53
4:05 AM, EST.  Saturday March 11.
quote="mansa"]emote pees in your bum[/quote]
March 11, 2006, 04:17:11 AM #54
4am est saturday morning
March 11, 2006, 04:19:07 AM #55
Yep, definately nasty right this second.  See posting time for your local time.



Angela Christine
Treat the other man's faith gently; it is all he has to believe with."     Henry S. Haskins
March 11, 2006, 04:22:32 AM #56
Seems to always go laggy at 3:05 am cst and doesn't stop til probably 30 minutes later every morning.
he two-page description man has arrived from the west.
March 11, 2006, 04:27:55 AM #57
I got disconected 2 or 3 times, lagged out of usefullness in between.  Cleared up at X:25 today.

Good for telling North Americans to go to bed already, but it has to suck for Europeans.


AC
Treat the other man's faith gently; it is all he has to believe with."     Henry S. Haskins
March 11, 2006, 04:42:48 AM #58
Quote from: "Angela Christine"Good for telling North Americans to go to bed already, but it has to suck for Europeans.

Yes, it does. The worst is that it seems to always come in moment I am in middle of something and waiting 20-25 minutes before be able to log back into the game throws me totally off the scene.
March 11, 2006, 05:35:05 AM #59
There is some good news, or at least a stop-gap solution.  Since everyone agrees that it happens at a certain time, it is possible to know when it is comming, and set an alarm on your computer or something.  Set the alarm to go off 5 or 10 minutes before the lag, then gracefully exit the scene, log out, and go have a snack.  Come back in half an hour, and everything is grand.   :)


Angela Christine
Treat the other man's faith gently; it is all he has to believe with."     Henry S. Haskins
March 11, 2006, 09:07:15 AM #60
Quotebut it has to suck for Europeans

Yeah, and it sucks enough already that the only time when there's more than 15 people online for us is between midnight and 8am. :(
b]YB <3[/b]

March 11, 2006, 11:05:27 PM #61
Lagging out repeatedly at exactly 5am GMT+1...
b]YB <3[/b]

March 11, 2006, 11:06:35 PM #62
The lag moster reared it's ugly head at 11 pm EST (roughly).
quote="mansa"]emote pees in your bum[/quote]
March 11, 2006, 11:06:41 PM #63
11pm EST I saw a kajillion people lag out, then went out myself.
March 11, 2006, 11:07:13 PM #64
I AM LAG.

Nice to meet you.
Child, child, if you come to this doomed house, what is to save you?

A voice whispers, "Read the tales upon the walls."
March 11, 2006, 11:14:01 PM #65
All hail to TEH LAG.
Quote from: MalifaxisWe need to listen to spawnloser.
Quote from: Reiterationspawnloser knows all

Quote from: SpoonA magicker is kind of like a mousetrap, the fear is the cheese. But this cheese has an AK47.
March 11, 2006, 11:17:08 PM #66
Is there a spray that repels lag?

Code Select
>drop pants
You do not have that item.
March 11, 2006, 11:18:12 PM #67
This happens every time I need to log.

Meaning I'll just have to stay link dead until tomorrow.
March 11, 2006, 11:18:49 PM #68
Ach, if only Yokunama.  Sorry, guys; hopefully everyone can stick around long enough to ride this out for current scene...
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.

- Eleanor Roosevelt
March 11, 2006, 11:19:01 PM #69
Yeah...I'm not far behind you, Bardess.  I just want to finally get reconnected so that I can log out.
Quote from: MalifaxisWe need to listen to spawnloser.
Quote from: Reiterationspawnloser knows all

Quote from: SpoonA magicker is kind of like a mousetrap, the fear is the cheese. But this cheese has an AK47.
March 11, 2006, 11:20:24 PM #70
I want to log on so I can continue with my dastardly deeds, not die dully  in deathly defeat.
Child, child, if you come to this doomed house, what is to save you?

A voice whispers, "Read the tales upon the walls."
March 11, 2006, 11:21:28 PM #71
I crashed in someone else's apartment.  :?
b]YB <3[/b]

March 11, 2006, 11:25:35 PM #72
My evil pp wills this on you all!  Link-deads!  Profit!
quote="CRW"]i very nearly crapped my pants today very far from my house in someone else's vehicle, what a day[/quote]
March 12, 2006, 04:04:42 AM #73
4am again.
esperas: I wouldn't have gotten over the most-Arm-players-are-assholes viewpoint if I didn't get the chance to meet any.
   
   Cegar:   most Arm players are assholes.
   Ethean:   Most arm players are assholes.
     [edited]:   most arm players are assholes
March 12, 2006, 04:06:21 AM #74
Lag at 3:05 CST.

Code Select
>drop pants
You do not have that item.
March 12, 2006, 04:09:42 AM #75
What's that?  Lag again?  Surely not! ;)

3:05 CST.
March 13, 2006, 04:21:29 AM #76
It was a little slow this evening, but still showed up.

3:23 am CST
subdue thread
release thread pit
March 14, 2006, 04:06:42 AM #77
The usual 4am EST lag.
March 14, 2006, 04:07:03 AM #78
3:08 am cst.
subdue thread
release thread pit
Print
Go Up Pages1 2 3 4 All
User actions