Spice induced jiberish

[halfhuman]

So, I was reading a post about the rinth in the world section (good post, check it out) and it veared toward the spice trade. I didn't want to derail it, so I posted my spice idea here instead.

If you drink too much ale, you start to codedly slur, trip and fall, and even pass out.  Smoke any amount of spice, and all that happens is you have a "You feel euphoric" or "agressive" message, and then you have a crashing message. What fun is that? I don't think it even moderates your skills the way drinking does.  I know spice use isn't nearly as common as drinking, but I think it deservs a little attention, so I started this thread petitioning with ideas for spice highs. A couple of my own include:

Sentance structure. I have pill addict friend. He took a tube of dramamine and said something to the effect of "Red ninja monkey go me" matter of factly. I think that instead of slurring your speach, if you've taken WAAAAY to much spice, it might mix up your words a little. Depending. Example:

say I went to Storm and bought an ale.

if your character's had waaaaay to much to smoke/snort everyone else sees:

Grinning, the man with a flock of seagulls haircut says in sirihish: Storm I went ale bought an.

Not realistic for minor amounts of spice, but if you've just had fifteen grains, I could see this happening.

Random emotes. I think this has been implimented already. I've heard people say that they'd seen emotes of people flexing menacingly, or grinning at them. Perhaps more of this? Like, if you're in a bar you see several shadowy figures dancing in and out of your vision.

Anythings better than everyone acting as though they can hold their hits! I want more ideas. I demand better spice code!

[ShaiHulud]

There are down effects to spice. most coded.. It is up to a player to rp his own particular reactions in conjunction to the coded effects.

I think spice has enough negatives to its use code-wise, but some echos reinforcing these, perhaps for extended uses, would be interesting.

How much heroin can you do?

[Anonymous]

I personally wouldn't mind the spice code being fleshed out a little more.  Some things I would like.  

-It would be nice if you would be reminded of your state every now and then.  If you are flying high, it would be nice if you were reminded on occasion.  If you are crashing, it would be nice if it told you that you were crashing.

-More blatant short term side effects.  It would be nice if the effects that spice is having on your body was not only clear echo wise, but also code wise.  Spice would be a hell of a lot more popular if a warrior on Argos didn't take stun damage and swung with 50% more strength.  I would like it if a ranger could sniff some spice and suddenly have his MP regenerate at 4 times the normal rate.  I would like some very blatant short term coded benefits from spice. I don't want to see just some subtle stat tweaks, I want to see some serious stat alterations and benefits from snorting a little spice.  The day a group of mercenaries all snort up before combat is the day spice is going to really rock.

-On the flip side, I would like some very blatant short term side effects as you come down.  You warrior who could bench press a half-giant while he was high wouldn't be able to arm wrestle an elf to submission when he is crashing.  Take whatever bonus the spice gives, and make the crashing do something even worse.  If your ranger uses some spice to get the energy to travel further in the desert away from danger, when he came down he would barely be able to muster the energy to stand.

-Once you have done the above, you are in a perfect position to go ahead and fix it so that stacking spice works better.  If your warrior sniffs some spice before battle and starts to feel it wear off when he still needs his strength, let him sniff some more and regain his abilities.  The penalty is that he crashes twice as hard.  Before he wouldn't have been able to arm wrestle and elf because he was too weak.  After taking two hits to prevent a crash, he might be too weak to stand with his armor on AND his crash time is doubled.  Let the poor bastard keep snorting if he wants, but just keep on stacking the penalties for when he finally crashes.

-NOW, add in some long term effects.  The long term effects would be subtle at first, but after a while make them blatant and obvious to the player.  Add three layers of long term effects.  First, make it so that the more you do spice, the longer your crashes last.  When you first start, you might recover in an hour.  As you do it more though, you might crash for many hours, or even days.  Do it often enough and it might take a week to recover from a spice crash.  Next, make the crashes worse as time goes on.  Your first crash might not be that bad.  You know that you are crippled, but you can still function.  If you do spice enough though, make it so that your crashes get so bad that you can't function unless you do more spice.  Finally, for long term users make it so that even if they manage to stop cold turkey long enough to get over a long crash, they still continue to feel somewhat weakened for IC months.

-Explain all of the above very clearly using echoes.  Don't make the player guess if he feels like crap or not.  If crashing makes you feel weak, tell the player and remind him every now and then.  If a player has quit cold turkey but still feels weakened a month later, remind the player every now and then.  You don't need to spam the player, but a friendly reminder would be nice.

-Oh yeah, make snorting spice have more of an effect then smoking it.  Real men snort.

So, let's put it all together now in the story of Amos the Byn Mercenary.

Amos the Byn Mercenary lives in Allanak.  One day he is out in the sands when his unit gets into some deep shit.  They fight desperately, but the battle is starting to ride against them.  Amos's friend Fred pulls out a pinch of spice from a hidden pouch on his boot, snorts it, and suddenly starts fighting like an enraged mul.  In a lull in the fighting Amos gets some spice from Fred so that he too can fight with such rage.  Amos snorts his pinch and Amos and Fred start to turn the tide of battle.  When they get back to 'nak, Amos crashes, but has gotten the day off anyways, so feeling week for an hour is a small price to pay for being alive.  

Amos decides that he needs his own spice stash... just for emergencies, and so acquires a few pinches which he keeps hidden on his persona at all times.

A few weeks later Amos finds himself battling outside of the walls of Allanak again.  Just to be safe, before battle snorts some spice.  Again, he fights like an enraged mul.  The mission takes a long time though that half way through the mission Amos crashes.  Fearful that he will not be able to defend himself, he snorts more spice and feels powerful again.  He gets back to Allanak later on that day and crashes much harder then his first time.  Not only does he crash hard, but he can barely move more then a few blocks with his armor.  Worse still, as soon as stables his mount and gets back to the compound (after taking a break on the way to catch his breath) the horn sounds and it is time for sparring practice.  Reluctant to let himself go get beat up by a mere Runner, he snorts some more spice to get through practice.  When Amos crashes after practice, he crashes very very hard.  He is so weak that he can't take more then a few steps with his armor on.  Much to his dismay, that afternoon is desert training, and he isn't even sure he can make it to the stable to get his kank.  Desperately, Amos snorts another load of spice.

That night as Amos is crashing, he realizes that he probably is going to be worthless for practice the next day if his crash last as long as it did the other day.  He resolves to buy enough spice to get himself to the weekend, and quit over the weekend.  So, all that week Amos spices himself up whenever he wants to do something, then crashes hard at night.  He makes it to the weekend and spends a miserable weekend unable to do much of anything.  Thankfully though, when the weekend is over, he feels more himself.  After a day or two he has forgotten the whole thing.

A couple of weeks later Amos again finds himself in battle and spices himself up just once.  To his horror though, the crash lasts and entire day and he is forced to snort spice to keep going in practice.  He snorts all week, resolved to stop over the weekend.  The weekend roles around and Amos finds that at the end of the weekend he is still crashing.  Amos has no choice but to keep on spicing.

Faster forward a couple of months.  Amos is ALWAYS either spiced, or crashing.  That much spice starts to add up in costs.  Amos runs out of money.  Without money, he can't spice.  Without spice, he can't even make it to practice.  He is kicked out of the Byn when they find him too worthless to fight.  Amos is not only broke and without job, but he is crashing very very hard.  Amos resolves to turn his life around and, and so quits cold turkey.  After a week or two he start to feel normal, but even when the crash is over he feels noticeably weaker.  Amos is starving and the Byn won't take him back, so he gets hired as a thug in the 'rinth.  He tries to stay off the spice... but one day many weeks later he needs to hurt someone for his new boss, and he knows he can't do it in his seemingly permanently weakened state... so he snorts a little spice.  

You fill in the rest of the story.  That is my fantasy as to how spice would work.

[Rindan]

Bah, it logged me out and posted it anonymously so I can't edit my typos.  Sorry that ugly mess.

[joyofdiscord]

I drool over that idea, Rindan.  I do think you've described a "crash" system a tad harsher than I'd personally go for.  If a crash after one spice hit is a "1", I'd say a crash after two consecutive hits should be a "1.25" or something, instead of a "2".  I'd want a crashing spice fiend to be at least functional enough to go out and try to mug people for his fix.  Or, at least divorce "addiction/cravings" from "crash."  The way, the guy suffers a while, then is -mostly- normal, but -really- fiending.  The long-term outcome should be horrible, but I'd like to see the rougher effects come on gradually over time, so someone has more time to entrench themselves in the habit.  I'd like to see a spice fiend be able to be in denial in the early phases of his habit, or else players will avoid it like the plague.  By the time you start to notice you are in dangerous territory with the spice, it should be too late.

Also, small point about snorting/smoking.  Smoking is actually the more potent ingestion form.  We think of snorting as more "hardcore" because we think of smoked drugs as weed and snorted drugs as cocaine.  In reality, smoking is a rather "harder" way to ingest drugs.  Compare snorting cocaine with smoking crack or freebase cocaine.

Then we'd have to consider different kinds of spice, because it doesn't make sense for every kind to feed and foster one addiction, nor even for the addiction to all the different types to function the same way.

In all, huge project, but it would be a marvel to behold and bring a -lot- of depth into the gritty side of Zalanthas.

[Rindan]

The problem is that 'addictive' is hard to do in a game.  Sure, you can float a message across the screen of the user reminding them that they are hooked, but I think the game works best when the player and the character are working in unison.  The best way to create an addiction that a player feels through his character and really understands is to not only tie consequences to taking a drug, but also tie consequences to NOT taking the drug.  

Tie a very tangible reward to using a drug in game, then start stacking on real consequences for stopping.  In the little Byn warrior story, the player behind that character would realize what is happening, but be helpless to stop it.  That is the very definition of an addiction.

As to the consequences being so harsh that no one would try it, I really wouldn't worry.  As it stands, there are very few spice users in the game.  Of those spice users, most simply do it recreationally like they are having an ale.

Hell, I could very well picture entire organizations built around spice.  Imagine an organization that supplies all its members with strength and agility enhancing spice, in affect making them super warriors.  They would keep supplying the drugs to these people until they were so horribly physically addicted that they could never possibly leave their spice source.  That is the kind of dilemma that would make spice usage interesting.

Granted, you are probably right that there should be a marijuana of spice that doesn't have any side effects more horrible then getting a terrible craving for a ginka pie.  If I had a magik fairy wand, I would offer a gradient of spices.  

- Some would do little except make you feel nice and have side effects no worse then a hang over and an improved appetite.  

-Some stuff would be something a little middle of the road.  You would avoid using it all the time because the benefits while nice, are not massive.  If you do it enough you start to suffer long withdrawals, but in general, you wouldn't be surprised to see a warrior snort it before going on an escort mission where there might or might not be combat.  Only a few people would manage to get themselves addicted to this stuff.

-You would have hardcore drugs that if you snorted some of it, everyone would back off a little bit.  These would have awesome tangible benefits that would be clear to everyone around.  They would also be highly addictive with the "crashing" phase growing in length and severity after only a few tries.

-Finally, you would have drugs that almost no one but the desperate would touch.  This is the stuff that you snort before making your last stand.  The addiction to these drugs would set in on your first sampling of it.  Try it once and you would crash hard for days or weeks.  Use it more then couple of times, and you would be forever addicted.  Your life would be utterly consumed by maintaining a steady supply.  The addiction might even be so bad that you could die if you go into withdrawal for too long.  This is the sort of stuff turns a loyal Templar into a traitor to the Highlord after a few tries.  This is the stuff that old Tek was really after when he banned spice from Allanak.

I think there is a lot of room to explore and play with spice.  I think spice is vastly underdeveloped in game as it is.  While it would certainly be a coding challenge to beef up the spice code into something more interesting, I think it could add a lot to the game if done right.

[jcarter]

A Diny Apartment [E]
Approximately eight cords on each side, this tiny apartment is bare. The chipping on the white paint of the wall shows that it has not been maintained for many years. In the corner is a small closet.

>sniff spice
Your arms burst with superhuman strength, your legs are alive with alacrity, and your vision sharpens beyond that of any humanoid.

Your vision blackens.

Your eyes flutter open and your head clears.

>look

The Arm of the Dragon Barracks [W]
Sparse and austere, these are the home of a division of Allanak's soldiers. Cots line the wall and the room bustles with activity. Humans and half-giants wearing cloaks with the jade cross freely roam around barracks.
The bodies of many human soldiers lay here.
The bodies of a couple of units of soldiers lay here.
The bodies of several half-giant soldiers lay here.
The body of the burly, barrel-chested templar lays here.
The body of the slim, ebon-eyed templar lays here.
The body of the tall, sable-haired templar lays here.
Several units of Allanaki soldiers are here, looking really pissed.

think Uh-oh.

>sniff spice
Your arms burst with superhuman strength, your legs are alive with alacrity, and your vision sharpens beyond that of any humanoid.

Your vision blackens.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

A Diny Apartment [E]
Approximately eight cords on each side, this tiny apartment is bare. The chipping on the white paint of the wall shows that it has not been maintained for many years. In the corner is a small closet.

>sniff spice
Your arms burst with superhuman strength, your legs are alive with alacrity, and your vision sharpens beyond that of any humanoid.

Your vision blackens.

Your eyes flutter open and your head clears.

>look

The Arm of the Dragon Barracks [W]
Sparse and austere, these are the home of a division of Allanak's soldiers. Cots line the wall and the room bustles with activity. Humans and half-giants wearing cloaks with the jade cross freely roam around barracks.
The bodies of many human soldiers lay here.
The bodies of a couple of units of soldiers lay here.
The bodies of several half-giant soldiers lay here.
The body of the burly, barrel-chested templar lays here.
The body of the slim, ebon-eyed templar lays here.
The body of the tall, sable-haired templar lays here.
Several units of Allanaki soldiers are here, looking really pissed.

think Uh-oh.

>sniff spice
Your arms burst with superhuman strength, your legs are alive with alacrity, and your vision sharpens beyond that of any humanoid.

Your vision blackens.

Oh fuck yes.

[ShaiHulud]

A Diny Apartment [E]
Approximately eight cords on each side, this tiny apartment is bare. The chipping on the white paint of the wall shows that it has not been maintained for many years. In the corner is a small closet.

>sniff spice
Your arms burst with superhuman strength, your legs are alive with alacrity, and your vision sharpens beyond that of any humanoid.

Your vision blackens.

Your eyes flutter open and your head clears.

>look

The Arm of the Dragon Barracks [W]
Sparse and austere, these are the home of a division of Allanak's soldiers. Cots line the wall and the room bustles with activity. Humans and half-giants wearing cloaks with the jade cross freely roam around barracks.
The bodies of many human soldiers lay here.
The bodies of a couple of units of soldiers lay here.
The bodies of several half-giant soldiers lay here.
The body of the burly, barrel-chested templar lays here.
The body of the slim, ebon-eyed templar lays here.
The body of the tall, sable-haired templar lays here.
Several units of Allanaki soldiers are here, looking really pissed.

think Uh-oh.

>sniff spice
Your arms burst with superhuman strength, your legs are alive with alacrity, and your vision sharpens beyond that of any humanoid.

Your vision blackens.

How the hell did you get my log?

[HardCarbon]

The problem is that 'addictive' is hard to do in a game. Sure, you can float a message across the screen of the user reminding them that they are hooked, but I think the game works best when the player and the character are working in unison. The best way to create an addiction that a player feels through his character and really understands is to not only tie consequences to taking a drug, but also tie consequences to NOT taking the drug.

 Err  trust me.. its coded.. and its nasty....

[LauraMars]

I was under the impression that spice did codedly affect you.  Does it not?

[Ritley]

I was under the impression that spice did codedly affect you.  Does it not?

That's IC to be honest. Go and snort some spice and find out  :twisted:

[Ritley]

A Diny Apartment [E]
Approximately eight cords on each side, this tiny apartment is bare. The chipping on the white paint of the wall shows that it has not been maintained for many years. In the corner is a small closet.

>sniff spice
Your arms burst with superhuman strength, your legs are alive with alacrity, and your vision sharpens beyond that of any humanoid.

Your vision blackens.

Your eyes flutter open and your head clears.

>look


The Arm of the Dragon Barracks [W]
Sparse and austere, these are the home of a division of Allanak's soldiers. Cots line the wall and the room bustles with activity. Humans and half-giants wearing cloaks with the jade cross freely roam around barracks.
The bodies of many human soldiers lay here.
The bodies of a couple of units of soldiers lay here.
The bodies of several half-giant soldiers lay here.
The body of the burly, barrel-chested templar lays here.
The body of the slim, ebon-eyed templar lays here.
The body of the tall, sable-haired templar lays here.
Several units of Allanaki soldiers are here, looking really pissed.

think Uh-oh.

>sniff spice
Your arms burst with superhuman strength, your legs are alive with alacrity, and your vision sharpens beyond that of any humanoid.

Your vision blackens.

Also. To do this you would have to make spice much much rarer. Because otherwise everyone would be running around the city looking like the hulk. You would have to make it a different type of spice that does this. A very very very rare spice.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

But, fuck yeah.

[Maybe42or54]

And lower the price of spice.

I have to twink hunt/salt forage/mine/cut trees to be an addict nowadays.
200 coins for a brick of spice? Expensive.

Lower it to 100. That way I can be addicted and not save up 3 months of pay to be addicted for 3 weeks.

[Anonymous]

And lower the price of spice.

I have to twink hunt/salt forage/mine/cut trees to be an addict nowadays.
200 coins for a brick of spice? Expensive.

Lower it to 100. That way I can be addicted and not save up 3 months of pay to be addicted for 3 weeks.

Lower the price of spice?  Trying to make a living by being a real ragtag Red Storm spice hunter is tough enough as it is!