luir's

[Manhattan]

how come there is only one gate into luir's and that is the western gate? it used to be that luir's had three entrances. now it's so inconvenient.

[Irulan]

The easy response to this is "Find out IC"....

But, lets just think about it for a few moments. What recently happened to Luirs? Attacked and overrun by mantis. Who runs Luirs? Kuracis and all their interests. Which is the easiest to defend against, three entrances or one? With the Kuracis being most interested in preserving trade, and recently having been attacked and losing their city for several years, I think a reasonable answer would be that when rebuilding, they would do everything in their power to fortify their city against future attacks.

Or....Find out IC. ;-)

-Irulan

[Adhira]

An OOC inconvenience will most often have IC reasoning behind it. As Irulan said, it's pretty easy to have your question answered in game.

[Angela Christine]

It is annoying as hell, isn't it?  I assume it was done for IC defensive reasons.

You've read the history page, right?  Stupid outpost got taken over by stupid bugs and things.  Previously it had sort of been taken over by 'Nak.  And of course the Kuraci themselves took it over from someone else, they didn't build it.  While Luir was gone, the place probably wasn't completely empty when the Kuraci came, there might have been some . . . vigorous discussion about who would get the place.  To me all this suggests that the place had some defense problems.

So now instead of the civilian merchants getting the more secure inner courtyard they have been turfed to the outer courtyard, and the Kuraci have locked off access to the inner courtyard for their own exclusive use.  The also built some walls and things so that you have to go through two gates to get into the main part of the outpost, first the north or south gate and through a defensable channel to the western gate to actually get into a useful part of the outpost.  Now you can't just bash in one gate and roll right into the center of town.

Still, it is annoying.


Angela Christine

[HunterKiller]

The new Luir's kicks ass.

- HK

[Cale_Knight]

Tektolnes kept ordering like 20 pizzas for Luirs outpost on Monday nights and the Kuracis got tired of having to pay for them, so they built the walls to keep out the delivery guy.

[adrien]

The new Luir's kicks ass.

- HK

I hate the place I never want to go  back.

[Tamarin]

Ya luirs sucks now that you have to spend an extra 10 seconds riding around the outer wall.  What a BITCH!!!

[Halaster]

I have noticed a significant decline in people visiting Luir's ever since the change.  It is enough of an inconvenience that people simply don't go there any more.

[Tamarin]

I think it might be that newer players actually think that the gates are closed, so they just don't come back.  Is there maybe some way to indicate that there is in fact an opening?

[adrien]

I always hated luirs anyways. dam Kuracis stoners!!!!

[Cogato (Didnt log in)]

Just search around, it isnt that much of an inconvenience, you have to go a maximum of 8 or 9 more squares...whipdeedoo. Imagine what it would have been like if noone wanted to walk from Meleths Circle in the beginning the whole 8 squares to the Gaj...we would have no players...its not an inconvenience, its just different. *shrugs*

[lukie]

It actually took me about 5 characters (2 in the northlands so really it's just 3) before I figured out that the Gaj even existed.

[amoeba]

I have noticed a significant decline in people visiting Luir's ever since the change.  It is enough of an inconvenience that people simply don't go there any more.

I don't think it is so much of an inconvience as it changed the dynamics of how people interact with the place I suspect. Usually Luirs is used as a rest stop halfway between the two major cities. It is awkward resting mounts in the middle of the street, but the way it is now, I suspect there is a lot of mount resting going on outside of the city proper.   Think about it,  it's safe from the desert dangers, and doesn't cost, as well as being less stigmatising then resting the kank in front of the tavern.

The other factor is the gates closing at night, I'm sure that discourages people from entering the city on some occasions.  

The place reminds me of a car dealership near here. There is no parking at the place, they only valet park.  The attempt is to control the customer and force a sale.  Entering Luirs, proper feels like you are entering a very tightly controlled enclave, rather than finding a public freewheeeling bar to have a good time.

In all I like the layout, but I think some tweaks and/or incentives to come through would be useful.  One don't allow "kank resting" at all in the outer section, reduced prices on renting a kank inside would draw more people to the tavern.   There are other ideas, but I am too tired to state them coherently.  I think it is an interesting study in social engineering, any sociologists amoung us?

[JohnGalt]

In short, the place was constructed to be a great layout for major battles, with properly spaced walls and gates.  While the layout is fantastic if a big battle ever occurs, it is annoying in the meanwhile.  Solution?  Add interesting content to the space between the outer and inner walls.  Some tribal tent, a roudy makeshift pub, less reputable merchants, ectera.

[Morrolan]

Solution?  Add interesting content to the space between the outer and inner walls.  Some tribal tent, a roudy makeshift pub, less reputable merchants, ectera.

This, and a place outside to rest/rent your kanks would be awesome.  There is a place to rest, but kanks can't enter b/c it's too small.

I think a few vendors would make it a different place.  Is that area really so tightly controlled that it couldn't happen?  Maybe even a water-seller like the "extra" one in Allanak?

Still, a few places like the Kuraci desert outpost from when Luirs was overrun would be cool.  I know most/all of those merchants were moved inside the walls of Luirs, but something like that would be cool.

Morrolan

EDIT to add:

Remember the tent-tavern at Tan'sarak?  I would love to see that outside the walls, but inside the outer walls.  A great place for a rowdy gathering.

[Dalmeth]

Well, the thing that got me about Luir's outer wall was that I had no idea that any old stranger was allowed to open the gates to get into the inner area.  So my character just sat outside those gates, wondering if the guards would kill him if he opened them.

[LoD]

Luir's was a great example of "less is more" with regards to its previous design in my mind.

I don't have access to all of its new layout, and I'm sure there are vast logical improvements, however, the fact that it's quite confusing and unfriendly to common travel is going to deter people from using it.  The old design was -very- friendly to the common traveller and had a great feel of an old outpost surviving in the midst of constant danger.

You were able to ride through the gate and in just a couple movements, stable your mount and be at the tavern to hear gossip, news, get a drink, relax, quit out, etc...and just as easy to depart again.  Change is always a challenge for people because humans are creatures of habit, but I'd still be a fan of a more user-friendly, but equally defensive layout.

-LoD

[Manhattan]

omg the new layout is like...ANTI user friendly.  :x

[marko]

Alternatively - this may not be so much an OOC issue as an IC response to a highly defended and controled enclave.

For example, tribals used to visit Luir's a lot and make their way into the market area.  Now, with all the extra defenses, gates, etc etc - I would guess that many tribals would ICly not wish to enter the outpost.  It's too dangerous - especially with Kurac's reputation (both IC and OOC).

I'd also guess that many caravans would be by-passing the outpost now as well due to the inconviences of the wagon yard and fortitifications.  

My guess is that it is a combination of the OOC annoyance of the extra rooms to travel (much like how Tuluk was shunned when it first popped back up - there were too many rooms to walk) and the IC result of such obvious fortifications and the shutting out of the outside world.

[moab]

I believe there is plans (and things) in the works for content between the inner and outer walls of Luir's.

All you have to do is look at the project blog.

Having recently traded emails with Mekeda, it's still a project in the works.

Further, the new Luir's rocks.  People don't visit it because they're the wussy type that can't just wander through the courtyard.

It could be much worse.

It could be like Tuluk.  *shiver*

[HunterKiller]

I care dick about the gates.  Check the place out if you haven't already, give yourself a chance to like or dislike it.

I did like the old Luir's though - I miss my little shit hole.  :twisted:

- HK

[flurry]

Yeah it's a little inconvenient, but that would be kind of sad if that's actually discouraging people from entering Luir's.

No wonder so much of the known world is unexplored!   You have a move a few rooms to get to some of the good stuff.  :wink:

Maybe it does lack some of the charm of the old Luir's, but it has its own charm.  Like a good spiced wine, it will only improve with age, I think.

[Spiced Kank]

I have noticed a significant decline in people visiting Luir's ever since the change. It is enough of an inconvenience that people simply don't go there any more.

I have noticed this as well. I think that it is mostly a growing pain.

The Outpost is still being re-built, both in-game and out of game, after being over-run and devastated.  There is much to come that will be added to the Outpost, but naturally, it will take time.  There are also certain steps that could and hopefully will be taken to make it less annoying from an OOC perspective, which I've been in communication with the Kuraci Immortals about.

That said, from an IC standpoint it is arguable that the Outpost is not only laid out in a more coherent and efficient fashion, it is far more secure and devastatingly defendable.  The "outer yard" is just as safe now, if not more, than the "inner yard" ever was before the Outpost was rebuilt.  The changes, when seen from an overall perspective, make a lot of sense.

The problem is only that it isn't finished yet.  

Luir's is certainly suffering from growing pains, but I do not think that they will be permanent, nor do I think that they are being felt too badly from an IC perspective. I don't think tribals would feel unwelcome at all.  In fact, with my point above about it being an even safer place to trade, business is probably doing just fine on that front.  The only point I can see in favor of them (and many other passers-through) feeling unwelcome is the fact that the inner gates close at dusk, which is one point that has been in discussion via email with the Kurac Immortals.

Solution? Add interesting content to the space between the outer and inner walls.

This is already underway, and has been for some time.  I agree that the Outer Bailey should be less of a 'dead spot'.  ICly, it's full of shoddy hawkers, makeshift shacks, tarps, tents, and so on, but OOCly, all of that still need to be written and built.  It will come.

Growing pains, that's all.

[Cale_Knight]

I believe there's actually a single coded shop in the Outer Bailey area.