Coded caste tattoos

[bloodfromstone]

Actually, he said that these people would have been, in theory, raised and trained specifically by the Faithful, not just some random commoner who thought it'd be fun to be a spy. So, in the case he used, someone else would have decided for them at age two or three that they were going to be a career spy.

Edit: Wait, we're talking about two different posts. Nevermind, ignore me.

[Dalmeth]

Alright, I looked through the file on the Tuluki caste tattoos and found a few points of interest.

Tuluki Caste Tattoos

All Tuluki citizens bear a tattoo of a blue and purple inked band somewhere on their head, face, neck, or upper shoulders, signifying their origin in Gol Krathu. Beyond that, each bears a caste-specific tattoo.

The caste tattoos listed here are specific to Tuluki culture alone. Individuals that are not born within the Gol Krathu region, or have not adopted it as their home, would not have any interest in adorning themselves with such tattoos, as they would have little meaning to a foreigner. The populace of Tuluk and the Gol Krathu region would find such caste markings on a foreigner both insulting and derogatory, as it would show that the individual in question had little respect for their heritage and culture.

Now from the first quote, I get the idea that no one from outside Gol Krathu is made a citizen.  I really don't know how that works, but someone not from Gol Krathu should not be getting the blue and purple band.

Getting the Tuluki caste tattoos, especially the blue and purple band, should not be easy.  Anyone who doesn't have it from the early on in life is not from Gol Krathu and getting one in midlife is a suspicious act, if not outright insulting to the tattooist.

[Arabian Nights]

Sorry, man, but no. Caste tattoos should definitely be accessible.

Yes, they should be accessible. But very strictly controlled. I think that you should have them added OOCly before entering the game if you choose to be Tuluki and then if you need any special mods have imm intervention. It should be possible to get them ICly but I think that it should be something strictly controlled by the templarate. A tattooist that works directly under a templar would be able to do these caste tattoos.

Do I think that you should be able to get them somewhere else illegally?

Sure, in the underground whether it be in Tuluk's underground or Allanak's underground. But somewhere I'm sure there would be tattooists who can copy these caste tattoos at a very expensive price.
Edit: Also, I think there should be a tattooist subguild. That would be very sweet. Only the best at this would be able to copy clan-specific tattoos though, unless they were a member of said clan.

[Maybe42or54]

I think there should be atattooist in the templar's quarter that can tattoo Northern Caste tattooes onto you.
Or in a Southern Noble House complex that is known to train spies.

And I believe there should be a caste tattooist in an easily findable place, so newborns can get tattooed by their family without going into a secret place to get them.

[Angela Christine]

The patterns of the tattoos are simple, but replicating a tattoo typically given in childhood on an adult would be more complicated.  Have you ever seen saggy old people with really old, stretched out tattoos?  It ain't pretty.  The stretching of the skin would warp the pattern and also fade or distort the ink colours.  If Tulukis typically get their tattoos updated periodically that could help keep the colours truer, but there is going to be some distortion.  In general a tattoo that you got last year is going to look a little different than a tattoo you got 20 years ago.  I'm sure that age isn't impossible to counterfeit, but it would take specific skills.


I wonder if Tuluk would have a spy caste, families that would forgo caste tattoos (or perhaps use non-permanent painted versions)?  Creating an old-looking tattoo would be tricky, but getting rid of a tattoo would be very difficult indeed.  Code-wise it is easy to cover a tattoo with another tattoo or scar, but ICly it would be hard to do.  Completely erasing a tattoo is an uncertain thing, even with lasers and other modern equipment.  The only certain way I can see of removing a tattoo in Zalanthas would be to remove the skin the tattoo is embedded in, which would leave scars.  A big scar on the back of the hand might not be too unusual, but one circling the neck would be pretty suspicious.  Hmm.


Angela Christine

[Rindan]

From the website under Tuluki cast tattoos.

All Tuluki citizens bear a tattoo of a blue and purple inked band somewhere on their head, face, neck, or upper shoulders, signifying their origin in Gol Krathu. Beyond that, each bears a caste-specific tattoo.

All Tuluki should start with that tattoo, period.  In fact, all Tuluki should start with the commoner tattoo too.  If you want to be the one exception to the rule, wish up or drop the MUD an e-mail.  It should be done this way if for no other reason the to make the game more n00b friendly.

If some poor newbie starts the game in Tuluki and suddenly starts getting yelled at for not knowing that in Tuluki culture everyone has a tattoo... well, there is simply no reason that to happen.  It also cuts down on OOC time that people generally take as the franticaly look for tattoos and starting equipment.

As to the issue of spies getting the tattoos, it should be a non-issue to get those tattoos in any place other then Tuluk.  Any and every tattoo artist should be able to do them.  The only thing that would make them special is how old that tattoos look.  Even then, I would assume that they are given when people are old enough to really be citizens.  Sure, a Tuluki tattoo might look more faded, but how hard is it just to use a duller color when tattooing and stretch it out a little?  I think making that tattoo should be trivial and easily done.  The only place where it might be hard to get such tattoos would be in Tuluk.  In Tuluk, I would still have an NPC that will do it, but make them charge an arm and a leg and put that NPC in a lawless area.

The real price of a Tuluki tattoo is that if an Allanaki gets a pair of them, he is forever marked as being from Tuluk.  That alone should make the issues of people smearing tattoos on them a relative non-issue.  There is a price to having those tattoos.  The one thing that could be done to make this even less of a non issue is to make it so that you can not overwrite tattoos.  If once you get Tuluki tattoos you are stuck with them for life, I think most southerners would think twice about getting them.

[Jherlen]

As to the issue of spies getting the tattoos, it should be a non-issue to get those tattoos in any place other then Tuluk.  Any and every tattoo artist should be able to do them.  The only thing that would make them special is how old that tattoos look.  Even then, I would assume that they are given when people are old enough to really be citizens.  Sure, a Tuluki tattoo might look more faded, but how hard is it just to use a duller color when tattooing and stretch it out a little?  I think making that tattoo should be trivial and easily done.  The only place where it might be hard to get such tattoos would be in Tuluk.  In Tuluk, I would still have an NPC that will do it, but make them charge an arm and a leg and put that NPC in a lawless area.

Well, it should definitely be -possible- to get them outside Tuluk. I don't know if it should be trivial. I don't think the Allanaki templarate would take kindly to someone handing out Tuluki caste tattoos in the Allanak bazaar. But yeah, there should be a way to find them.

Although AC also made a good point about trying to make a new tattoo look old.

Anyway, I don't see any reason why forcing a Tuluki pc to wear tattoos is bad. If you want to be an untattooed northerner, that's fine, but you don't get the benefits of being a Tuluki citizen (like free access to the health club and spa and reduced rates on the golf course). If you're a special case, you can be handled specially. I still think just automatically slapping tattoos on anyone who starts in Tuluk is fine (if you'd rather not be tattooed you can start in Luir's), but it's the same as if you give people a choice, I suppose.

[Larrath]

Fine, fine.

I still think a prompt would be ideal when pointing at Tuluk, but otherwise, I agree with everything except making those tattooists so hard to find.  ICly, people would go to those tattooists all the time when they got employed - remember, the documents say that Tulukis tattoo themselves with symbolic things as well as just tattoos, meaning that the average Tuluki probably has at least four tattoos or so by the time they're twenty eight.
There are also the many other caste tattoos that exist only virtually - or at least, this is how I see things - people working for uninfluential merchants or ordinary commoners would get those multicolored tattoos, but people working for successful independent merchants or in large commoner companies would probably have caste tattoos with their own colors and designs.

[Sir Diealot]

What if you got a price increase in shops and such, for not having the tattoos?  The shopkeepers/watersellers/etc. seeing that you're not from around there..  So they kick the price up.

edited to add:  What about price kicks in Allanak for those who DO have tattoos?  That'd be realistic too.. feckin' northers.

[Arabian Nights]

What if you got a price increase in shops and such, for not having the tattoos?  The shopkeepers/watersellers/etc. seeing that you're not from around there..  So they kick the price up.

edited to add:  What about price kicks in Allanak for those who DO have tattoos?  That'd be realistic too.. feckin' northers.

I think this is a decent idea.

[Dalmeth]

What if you got a price increase in shops and such, for not having the tattoos?  The shopkeepers/watersellers/etc. seeing that you're not from around there..  So they kick the price up.

edited to add:  What about price kicks in Allanak for those who DO have tattoos?  That'd be realistic too.. feckin' northers.

Because, if someone decides to become a Tuluki citizen who wasn't born in Tuluk or in Gol Krathu, then it would be a great social stigma to get those tattoos.  I put this in quotes a while back.

[Jherlen]

... I agree with everything except making those tattooists so hard to find.  ICly, people would go to those tattooists all the time when they got employed - remember, the documents say that Tulukis tattoo themselves with symbolic things as well as just tattoos, meaning that the average Tuluki probably has at least four tattoos or so by the time they're twenty eight.
There are also the many other caste tattoos that exist only virtually - or at least, this is how I see things - people working for uninfluential merchants or ordinary commoners would get those multicolored tattoos, but people working for successful independent merchants or in large commoner companies would probably have caste tattoos with their own colors and designs.

I think most of the debate is focused on the blue and purple inked band and the six pointed star that Tuluki commoners wear. If you're saying other tattoos should be readily accessible, like the various circles and rings and whatnots for the bardic circles and merchant Houses, then yeah, I suppose they'd be easy enough to have somewhere. (Though locating clan tattoos inside clan compounds and Circle tattoos inside the Circle houses makes just as much sense to me -- does House Dasari want just anybody to be handing out its special tattoo?)

I see having the six pronged star available for any non-citizen PC with 50 sid to by similar to a case where a seven-pronged star (that the Chosen wear) was available for any Tuluki with 1000 sid to buy. The nice man tattooed the seven pronged jade and silver star on my hands and now I can walk around in silks with my friend to guard me and make everybody think I'm a noble of House Winrothol. Winrothol simply would not let this happen. I'll stand by my case that the Faithful wouldn't let any Allanaki get Tuluki citizenship tattoos in Tuluk and walk around pretending to be a citizen, either.

So yeah, if you want to make the tattoos that say "I did service for Group X" widely available, fine. Those tattoos wouldn't mean anything without the "major" ones that say you're actually from Tuluk -- and those tattoos should not be trivial to obtain unless you actually are a citizen.


On the other note, I'm not sure if shopkeepers in either city would discriminate prices based on tattoos or citizenship unless a law told them they had to. All the merchant houses care about is sales and money, and probably don't want to drive customers off. Independent merchants are constantly in danger of being wiped out by the larger houses and definitely don't want to lose sales for the same reason.

[Julien]

Would the tatoos be for citizens of Tulluk only all the  inhabitants of the north ? What about a hunter who lives in the grey forest and rarely comes in town to sell and buy some items, before moving back to the wilderness ? Since the city lives from woods, game etc...citizens wouldn't be surprised to see non tatoo-ed persons unless the custom is common in the entire region, but that's not my impression from reading the documentation about the tatoos.

[Larrath]

Would the tatoos be for citizens of Tulluk only all the  inhabitants of the north ? What about a hunter who lives in the grey forest and rarely comes in town to sell and buy some items, before moving back to the wilderness ? Since the city lives from woods, game etc...citizens wouldn't be surprised to see non tatoo-ed persons unless the custom is common in the entire region, but that's not my impression from reading the documentation about the tatoos.

If the hunter was born in Tuluk, he would probably have caste tattoos - and the vast majority of the people in the Northlands have been born (and live) in Tuluk.
Also, a hunter would have a serious time living mostly in the Grey Forest and only occasionally visiting Tuluk - the Grey Forest is an extremely dangerous place, full of surprisingly lethal halflings and hungry tembos.

Citizens won't be surprised if they see someone without a tattoo, once.  But if they see them once every few weeks and they don't seem to have a tribe, they'd probably get curious.  Then again, they'd probably get more curious about how that hunter makes a living in the Grey Forest.

In other words, my advice is to start playing in Tuluk and not run straight into the Grey Forest.  My first ranger did that, and he didn't last a single RL hour.  In fact, he barely lasted forty minutes, most of which were spent buying equipment and getting tattoos.