Do Zalanthan women shave their legs?

[staggerlee]

Shaving the armpits would help a bit,

No it wouldn't.  

Hair doesn't stink.  This common misconception may exist because people who don't bathe usually don't shave either.  Filthy hippies and hobos stink because they don't bathe, not because they don't shave.

The objectionable odour is caused by anaerobic bacteria eating your excretions, not the excretions themselves.  When you shave your pits the fold of the arm pit is able to seal better, making a more inviting habitat for the anaerobic bacteria.  A nice hairy armpit doesn't seal well at all, so it stays comparatively well ventilated.

If two people (or two armpits) bath equally often and equally thoroughly, the shaved armpit should smell slightly worse than the hairy armpit.

Yep. And there are a lot of ways to stay clean that don't involve water.  And diet is a big part of it too.  North America is stinky as all hell,  for the same reason we're fat. We live off of hormones, chemicals, and fat.  Thank you fast food.

[jhunter]

It was my understanding that the hair in your armpits actually makes it more difficult to get as clean when compared to a lack of hair. That would mean that more bacteria would remain and cause more odor as it worked away at the excretions there.
*shrug* I'm no doctor though.

[Nao]

I've read in a biology book from the 1980's that in bad cases of body odor, you should shave to help with it!

Seriously, though - it's a lot harder to wipe away the smell when there's hair that it can stick to.

[Angela Christine]

Which explains why people's heads smell so bad.   :roll:  The oily sweat on your head is similar in composition to the sweat in your arm pits and your groin.  So why doesn't your scalp reek?  Ventilation.

[Stroker]

Which explains why people's heads smell so bad. Rolling Eyes The oily sweat on your head is similar in composition to the sweat in your arm pits and your groin. So why doesn't your scalp reek? Ventilation.

What the fuck are you talking about?

[staggerlee]

I've read in a biology book from the 1980's that in bad cases of body odor, you should shave to help with it!

Seriously, though - it's a lot harder to wipe away the smell when there's hair that it can stick to.

I'd suggest there's a cultural bias in your bio book, tragically science doesn't really escape culture by any means, and the education system really doesn't.

If hair makes a difference, it isn't huge, and I'd imagine that a culture that doesn't encourage shaving would have various hygiene rituals to accommodate the difference.

If you want to really get down to it, you can consider the impact of temperature and the absurdly dry climate on bacteria.  Namely, there'd be less and it would grow more slowly.

Of course, I'm still not sure what any of this has to do with anything.  Cultural aesthetic is rarely based on logic, people don't shave in North America because it's better they shave in North America because they're taught it looks good.

[Cerelum]

I really can't believe this topic has this many pages...

I'm not trying to be mean..but why such a big debate?

Are some of you hairy freaks who don't shave and are offended?

What's the deal?

[aruna]

Cerelum echoed my thoughts exactly. This thread has been going strong since 2005. What gives?

I don't even remember what my vote was on this one, but I'm pretty sure it was the 'I don't really care' option.

[Angela Christine]

What the fuck are you talking about?

Sweat.  

http://health.howstuffworks.com/sweat.htm

There are two types of sweat glands:

Eccrine - the most numerous type that are found all over the body, particularly on the palms of the hands, soles of the feet and forehead

Apocrine - mostly confined to the armpits (axilla) and the anal-genital area. They typically end in hair follicles rather than pores.

Eccrine glands emit mostly salt and water.  Appocrine glands emit salt, water, oils and proteins.


I thought that the scalp had Appocrine sweat glands, but I can't seem to find anything that says exactly what kind of glands the scalp has, so I may have been wrong about that.  It happens.

However, the scalp definitely has sebaceous glands, which do produce oils and proteins.  So the scalp has hair, oils, proteins, salt and water on it, much like the armpits.  Yet the scalp usually doesn't smell bad.

[Stroker]

I thought that the scalp had Appocrine sweat glands, but I can't seem to find anything that says exactly what kind of glands the scalp has, so I may have been wrong about that. It happens.

However, the scalp definitely has sebaceous glands, which do produce oils and proteins. So the scalp has hair, oils, proteins, salt and water on it, much like the armpits. Yet the scalp usually doesn't smell bad.

I think the stench from your groin and axillary area must be overpowering the stench from your hair.... but believe me, it is there; everyone else notices it... so take a shower, damn it.

[staggerlee]

I think the stench from your groin and axillary area must be overpowering the stench from your hair.... but believe me, it is there; everyone else notices it... so take a shower, damn it.

Are some of you hairy freaks who don't shave and are offended?

What's the deal?

That's kind of like a strawman argument I suppose.  People have argued against shaving in Zalanthas, thus they must be hairy in real life, thus they should just calm down and get over it.

What's so offensive about people considering cultural norms in the game, and actually putting some thought into why things are they way they are?    I mean, is it challenging your behavior in real life?  If it is, you probably have some shit you should be thinking about.

Personally, I'm interested in playing in a culture that isn't available on tv or outside my door, I already have those.    The sociological side of the game is a huge portion of the fun for me.  

So if you don't like the discussion... go kill a scrab or something. You have your fun, I'll have mine.

[Salt Merchant]

I'm pretty sure they all smell. Even the nobles. People everywhere smell, highly industrialized first-world countries are the exception. Zalanthans would have to wash their clothes every time they start to smell of sweat - nearly impossible, so body odor would probably be normal. Shaving the armpits would help a bit, but not smelling when you don't wash every couple of days or at least use some kind of deodorant would be nearly impossible, too.

Vivaduans don't smell.

[Briarfox]

I don't think shaving really fits the game, in my opinion.

The only reason I can think of for any woman in Zalanthas to shave would be to delouce one's self. I can only image what bugs can come from humping a 'Rinther or Bynner. Ick.

[Supreme Allah]

Considering the effects of evolution on what appears to be, largely, a desert planet, I don't picture most humans as having an excess of body hair to begin with. I've dated two different women who didn't need to shave their legs for them to be smooth as silk, so this is not something unheard of. Take a look at the other races, even - Elves have none, dwarves have none, muls have none. And because of the environment, I believe this makes sense.

That said, for those women in Zalanthas (and really, things like this are generally up to the creator of the character) that would need to shave often, I don't think most would have the means to do so. I once had a water elementalist that was obsessed with his own looks/hygiene, so he regularly shaved everything (and yeah I actually solo-emoted it a few times), but most Zalanthans likely don't have an excess of water available to bathe with and make shaving comfortable.

In short, for people with lots of water available that care about their appearances overmuch I could probably picture shaving their body hair, but I don't see a LOT of body hair around to begin with.

[Barzalene]

Couldn't they shave with oil rather than water?

[a strange shadow]

Oils and animal fats are definitely in supply, and would be an option.

[X-D]

Elves have body hair...I could point you in the direction of many elf npcs with all sorts of body hair.

Gith I think are without hair:)

[Throttle]

You could shave with just about any liquid, I suppose. Oil would probably work nicely, but the ointment oils I've seen in the game have generally been more expensive than water, and I wouldn't recommend anyone trying to shave with lamp oil. Technically speaking you could probably shave with ale or something equally cheap, but if you're that poor then you probably don't care either way and would rather drink the ale.

[RogueGunslinger]

Didn't Romans use oil to bathe? I seem to remember in history class hearing about romans soaking their body in oil, then taking a piece of metal and scraping it off of them along with all the dead skin cells and anything else that might be dirty on them.

A bit off topic but I've always wondered why Zalanthan's never found an alternative to washing themselves besides using water. Just doesn't make sense to me.

[Barzalene]

A bit off topic but I've always wondered why Zalanthan's never found an alternative to washing themselves besides using water. Just doesn't make sense to me.

I'd always assumed they had. I thought we just weren't emoting it out. Everyone smells like dust and dirt. If you've ever ridden the subway you'll know that people without who do not or cannot bathe smell far more colorful than that.

[Shiroi Tsuki]

Didn't Romans use oil to bathe? I seem to remember in history class hearing about romans soaking their body in oil, then taking a piece of metal and scraping it off of them along with all the dead skin cells and anything else that might be dirty on them.

You can actually use sand to abrade your skin in a similar fashion.

Our societies tend to be way overly smell-conscious as it is.  I mean, we rub metals into our armpits so that we don't sweat .  We're kind of obsessive.

[Nao]

A bit off topic but I've always wondered why Zalanthan's never found an alternative to washing themselves besides using water. Just doesn't make sense to me.

Because it's pretty unnecessary. Both cities should smell extremely bad just because of rotting rubbish lying around, really smelly toilets since no one is going to flush them with water (if there are public latrines at all) and so on. I really doubt that a bit of BO in addition to that matters.

[psionic fungus]

I can't believe this has been resurrected.

Considering the effects of evolution on what appears to be, largely, a desert planet, I don't picture most humans as having an excess of body hair to begin with. I've dated two different women who didn't need to shave their legs for them to be smooth as silk, so this is not something unheard of. Take a look at the other races, even - Elves have none, dwarves have none, muls have none. And because of the environment, I believe this makes sense.

There are a lot of misconceptions here.  Hairlessness is not an evolutionary adaptation to a desert environment.  It would be just as likely to be detrimental to the organism, and most mammals in desert environments IRL have plenty of hair.  As far as RL women go, in my experience those who aren't hairy -and- don't shave (I hang out with hippies, okay) have all had light hair and complexion.  I have never met a woman from the middle-east who fit these specifications.  I know Zalanthas is not the middle-east, but it seems to be as appropriate of a RL analog as possible.

I just think it is silly, and should be an IC cultural issue.  Perhaps the Southron barbarians don't shave, but Tuluki (men and women) keep their bodies free of hair through exfoliation.  Perhaps not.  I just don't see why it would be a global phenomena (it isn't IRL), and I certainly don't think Zalanthans should have evolved to grow less hair because they live in a desert... It's just not rational.

Also, Zalanthan Elves have body hair... I don't think I've ever seen anything saying otherwise.  Muls are part Dwarf, so that explains why they are hairless.  Did the Dwarves lose their hair in the mines?  Does anyone know?  Oh well, it's Dark Sun.

OMG, bearded Elves FTW!

[veryalien]

If it hasn't been brought up yet, women in desert climates here on earth shave as a matter of hygiene. Middle east and Indo-asia have many such customs.

Usually they use strings to do it but wax is also used.

[Hot_Dancer]

I know I tend to reek more when I shave my armpits as opposed to when I do not.