RPEcho

[Fragmented]

I would really like to see an rpecho, which is to say, a room echo that
doesn't put a person's sdesc into it that can be initiated by a player. I think this would be a valuable rp tool when used correctly, and of course the command would have to go to a masterlog, so abusers could be properly dealt with. This would better allow VNPCs to be roleplayed. Also, an rpshout command would allow the same functionality, but heard in adjacent rooms, through doors, etc. That way, instead of having to type shout *rowdy laughter is heard from the entertainment hall*, one could rpshout this and players in a connecting room would see:

Rowdy laughter is heard from the entertainment hall.

I've idea'd this already, but I thought I'd mention it here for discussion.

[Hexxaex]

Suggested this before, and the final word was that there was too much potential for abuse.

[Fragmented]

Ah crap. It's a sad thing that people have to be irresponsible. Oh well.

[Dracul]

Work around it. I agree that it's far far too abuseable as you suggested it.

examples:

emote Several dwarves come in from the street with a gust of sandy wind ushering their entrance, and directly approach ~bar, taking several seats down from @

emote Glancing down at @ and several others patrons, an uncommonly dimunutive dwarf drops down at a booth.

pem eyes shift up to the motions of a kank-high, sandy-haired youth as the boy aruges with a disgruntled elf over a small bag of some goods.

They all have your own sdesc in them, but they still play the scene.

[Larrath]

I think this could be too risky on an abusing level to be practical.  You only need one character with a misconception/bad case of twinkishness to get some seriously bad things.

Someone could be subdued in the desert, for example, and "echo" as though an invisible defiler was starting to cast.  Or echoing a gith or mantis running in.  Others could start making VNPCs lynch elves and half-elves when they have no reason whatsoever to do so.  Someone could even try to trick people into thinking an NPC was being animated when it's not.

It's cool, but having seen some twinks, I'd have to give this a Nay.

[bloodfromstone]

Same as above.

It's a wonderful idea, if we could all RP responsibly and get along, but that's not going to happen.

[Cyrian20]

yeah and there is this one

>rpecho Someone tells you:
           "Trying to fix a bug, drop your pack real quick"
>
The stubby nosed templar drops his pack
The hairy chinned dwarf drops his pack
The silk claden elven fellow drops his pack
>get all
you get a leather pack
It is easily manageable, and about half full.
you get a small pack
It is easily manageable, and over half full.
you get a sizable pack
It is Very heavy, and  full.
ok
>run
You speed up to a fast run.
>north


:twisted:

[Kankman]

Many newbies have enough trouble grasping our world and emote structure. Imagine a brand new player, fresh from a hack'n'slash "RP" being given the power to rpecho. Yikes.

rpecho God walks into the room and points down at %otherguy package with a mocking laugh.

[Cale_Knight]

What if we tied this ability into the karma system? Say once you reach x karma, you're allowed to use it? Or make it a toggle for any pfile. Or just give it to templars, nobles, and other suitable special apps. Then give each player a strict lecture about how to use it, make sure they only use it sparingly, and then set things up so every RPecho is logged to a file attached to your account which will be reviewed by the imms weekly?

I really do think this would add a lot to the game, so long as it's kept in responsible hands.

[Kankman]

What if we tied this ability into the karma system? Say once you reach x karma, you're allowed to use it? Or make it a toggle for any pfile. Or just give it to templars, nobles, and other suitable special apps. Then give each player a strict lecture about how to use it, make sure they only use it sparingly, and then set things up so every RPecho is logged to a file attached to your account which will be reviewed by the imms weekly?

I really do think this would add a lot to the game, so long as it's kept in responsible hands.

Players with immortal karma do get this command. Seems about right to me.

[Cale_Knight]

Har har?

[Larrath]

It's a bad idea to give people commands based on how much karma they have.

This idea is nice in theory, but in practice will make a lot of trouble.

[Anonymous]

Ah crap. It's a sad thing that people have to be irresponsible. Oh well.

It's not irresponsibility that bothers me it's that people have very differing opinions on what is and what is not appropriate in an emote let alone a room echo.  What is pushing the boundaries of fair play or appropriate to you or me is fine to someone else.

[Cale_Knight]

It's a bad idea to give people commands based on how much karma they have.

I don't really see how it's any worse an idea than giving people access to more powerful and unbalancing classes based on their karma.

Karma is supposed to represent the amount of trust that the staff has in a given player, yes? Access to this command would be contingent on the same trust. With the right safeguards in place, abuse would be minimal. No more likely or unlikely than, say, someone playing a templar and using militia NPCs to kill random players for no IC reason.

If this command is given and used sparingly, I could see it only enhancing the game world. Abuse would be met with the same penalties levied on players who abuse their powerful drovian mul templars.

PS - Yes, I know the templars aren't strictly a karma class - but they still require a certain level of trust from the staff.

[Cuusardo]

Hey, always feel free to submit room echoes to the mud.  I've personally seen some super cool ones in different places, and would love to see more of them.

[kankier Fi!]

No body asked for my opinion, but I'll give it anyways.

Frankly giving someone who IS NOT an immortal room echo powers is a bad idea....too much room for abuse.

giving in between powers of IMMs and N00Bs on a karma basis makes me want to throw up...how long before using the Way is a KARMA based thing? "Can I use 'CONTACT' yet?...its my 6th character"

Sorry, I may have karma, but I don't believe in Elitist bullshit. I take it as I come.

no...You give everybody the same tools to paint their RP Mural. Given that some murals are different things, based upon how WELL painted your previous murals, you get another....And if you don't; you keep painting. WHY? for satisfaction.

You don't play for Karma...You Don't play to powergame...You Play to RP.

Not flaming...just I think that sometimes a fresh perspective may help.


And on a side not, I would love to be able to echo....jsut coming to grips with the amount of BS that could be set up because of it, might harm the good RPers. Good RPers get the shaft enough anyway....

peace

[Jherlen]

If you give some people with karma certain commands that others don't have, players are going to quickly narrow down who has the karma to make echoes and who doesn't. This may skew people's perception of your PC - if I'm playing a mundane independent ranger I may not necessarily want everyone to know I have karma. Or, take into account ungemmed magickers - if people suddenly figure out your innocent-looking stonecarver is played by a karma player because you can do cool room echoes, they may take the further leap and guess that you're playing a karma guild oocly.

Not to mention players might start expecting you to do echoes all the time, when some people may not always be inspired enough to do it.

Even worse, some people might want you to start doing echoes and illustrating scenes FOR them using metagame-speak.

With IC abilities granted by karma guilds its one thing, OOC abilities are quite different. I'd be more worried about abuse from other people than I would be about karma players abusing an echo command.

And besides, it's really not all that hard to achieve the same thing as an echo with just a normal emote.

[joyofdiscord]

99% of the legimate uses you could have for room echoes can be handled just fine with a regular emote.  Instead of asking to be trusted to hide your identity, trust that your fellow players will interpret the emote responsibly.

And yes, the problem is not necessarily egregious abuse, which would be caught pretty quickly, just like the equivalent abuse with emote.  The problem is the broad grey area.  The little pet peeves about what is or isn't a form of "poweremoting" and letting people make questionable additions to a scene without identifying themselves.  We can't wish up for clarification -every- time something halfway questionable happens.  (wish all Hello, was that an IMM, the Templar, that beggar in the corner, a mindbender, or barfly #6 making that kind-of wierd/unsual room echo.  Is it IC?  Is it correct?)

And yes, giving it out to karma chars/nobles/templars = really bad idea.  Nobles/Templars/whoever can already bring alive their estates perfectly well with emotes.  Secretive magickal cantrips would be the only good use to such a command, and I think this situation comes up seldom enough that wishing up can probably take care of it.

[Cale_Knight]

Well, I have been convinced that this ability would probably cause more trouble than it's worth due to a synergistic effect of little things like Jherlen and joyofdischord mentioned.

Still, I don't agree with the concept that for some reason it's ok to restrict x powerful thing to certain trusted players, but no y. I really don't see the difference here, and haven't seen any decent arguments stating why. Seems more like a "we fear change!" kneejerk more than anything else. It's a "really bad idea" because templars/nobles already have the ability to make the world come alive? That does nothing to explain to me, the newbie, why it's a "really bad idea." All you've done is told me something I already know without actually backing up your opinion on the matter.

I'm perfectly willing to change my opinion when presented with good arguments, but I've hardly been convinced that player trust in the form of unbalancing classes is one thing and player trust in the form of a special emote is another. Seems to be the same kind of duck to me.

[Maybe42or54]

That does nothing to explain to me, the newbie, why it's a "really bad idea." All you've done is told me something I already know without actually backing up your opinion on the matter.

That's why.

When I tell a newbie that they can't emote bitch slapping me when I am an uber warrior and they are a new pc that I defeat daily in two hits, the nwbie says "It wasn't a bad Idea, I can do it."

Telling newbie that it is a bad idea to slap a templar, they ignore me and do it anyway.

Us newbie type people aren't responsible enough to the IG world to have that massive amount of control over the coded, non-sdesc, including emotes.


Tehre are so many ways I can think of that it would be bad, but really none that I could see in favor of the idea. Which means, to me, that there is more "negative" possibilities than positive ones.

[Cale_Knight]

I don't buy that. Just because I'm new to the game doesn't mean I'm not capable of rational thought. The newbie who slaps a templar does it because he's an idiot who hasn't even skimmped the helpfiles, no other reason.

Besides, I have zero karma. I wouldn't be able to use the RPEcho command even if it were to come in as I orginally suggested, and I'm totally cool with that.

[Maybe42or54]

I didn't mention your thought capabilities.
If anything, it involves knowledge of game mechanics/game politics/IG Realism/ and what have you.

Which few true newbies understand. Hell, I don't understand a lot of armageddon still.

And of course you don't buy that. I wouldn't either if I were in your shoes, I bet. Give it a few more months and then you'll buy it.

[Dracul]

...

Besides, I have zero karma. I wouldn't be able to use the RPEcho command even if it were to come in as I orginally suggested, and I'm totally cool with that.

Look. Look. Seriously. The argument against newbies abusing this is moot. The only possible thing a newbie could do is [whining] why can't I do it too?

Sure, it could be abused by the more trusted players, but that's what karma is suppose to be about right? I think it could be fine, given to the right players it could help liven the game experience some, and it wouldn't be the dead giveaway that there is an imm in the room. Then it would be there -may- be an imm in the room. (and I still wouldn't get it )

Well all arguments aside, I don't see it as nessecary at all, EXCEPT for the thing about cantrips. Which...would be really cool.

I would feel like a pesk if I wished up for an imm do to some cantripping for me though...


For now just use the examples of including your own sdesc in the emotes. And be reeeaaaaaal careful about only doing small things.

[kankier Fi!]

Rational thought and understanding are two different things....
Although, often Understanding and rational thought go hand in hand.

1.Think this over Cale, If you had school children and you seperated them by hair color and gave them all crayons and their all scribbling and the Teacher gives out the BIG box of 256 colors. How would that make the other children feel if they had to have their work rated against the others?

2.IC game mechanics are one thing, after all it is ROLE PLAY; However the tools that you give the players should be equal. A true and solid RPer won't rely on fancy new shit given them to RP consitently and in a fair manner.

3.The OOC push for knowing who is what makes the mind do bad things. OOC, (I may not act on it IC) If what you said was around Cale then It would give clues to whom is playing Karma classes. Or also whom is a well regarded player.This should not be the case.

4. There is a hazing assocsiated with being seen as a n00b, I lived through it. I gained understanding...euphemisms the whole kit and kaboodle. If any thing I don't want others to go through I did with a couple of chars and almost be driven off. I had an event that happened once...Almost turned me off from Arm because of the way the players handled themselves. Badly handled RP from a few whom were given karma....I just think it should be given only to IMMs. (Or associaated with Sorcerer Karma...I mean they ARE sorcerers)

5.

Seems to be the same kind of duck to me

Yeah...And maybe I'm a Chinese Jet pilot. Unbalancing classes are rewards you obtain because you can enrich the world...And except for sorcerers (heh) there are balancing factors...Play longer and you'll understand.

example
Desert elves....They live in the wastes. Yeah...
Magickers....They are either enslaved or killed by Law in the city-states
Half-Giants...Very low wisdom skill usually.

just to name a few balancing factors.

There is Balance is Zalanthas...But where it comes from is a variety of factors, be it RP,OOC intelligence or paitence, or Character stats.

I will admit; however, that I am quite put out about saying I'm afraid of change  :lol:

peace

[Halaster]

I would really like to see an rpecho, which is to say, a room echo that
doesn't put a person's sdesc into it that can be initiated by a player. I think this would be a valuable rp tool when used correctly, and of course the command would have to go to a masterlog, so abusers could be properly dealt with. This would better allow VNPCs to be roleplayed. Also, an rpshout command would allow the same functionality, but heard in adjacent rooms, through doors, etc. That way, instead of having to type shout *rowdy laughter is heard from the entertainment hall*, one could rpshout this and players in a connecting room would see:

Rowdy laughter is heard from the entertainment hall.

I've idea'd this already, but I thought I'd mention it here for discussion.

Not gonna happen.  Too much room for abuse.