Brawl Test

[jhunter]

Fine.

Hit target
You notice a soldier watching you and you decide to back off. If you wish to proceed, use kill.

In which case if you were paying attention to your surroundings you'd know that before you try to hit someone.  :wink: As someone else said it contributes to people not paying attention to their surroundings. The descriptions are there for many reasons. *big thumbs down*

[Maybe42or54]

Forgive me for being positive. I didn't see a problem in the first place.

The message is supposed to sound like you are paying attention to your surroundings. If you weren't, you can use kill.

[Synthesis]

How about, instead of implementing a 'brawl test' command, we simply add some room echoes to reflect the environment and the occasional fights that may break out:

In crappy Tavern A, you might get the room echo:

"A pair of soldiers in the back of the room laugh and begin placing bets as a brawl erupts between a few dusty mercenaries."

And in upscale Tavern B, you'd get the echo:

"An enraged dwarf begins to make a scene, but is dragged to the street by a pair of scowling soldiers after breaking a few empty mugs."

This would
1. Solve the problem of adding additional code.
2. Solve the problem of people simply not paying attention to their surroundings.
3. Ultimately, be more aesthetically pleasing, assuming you came up with some better echoes than my pathetic examples above.

[jhunter]

How about, instead of implementing a 'brawl test' command, we simply add some room echoes to reflect the environment and the occasional fights that may break out:

In crappy Tavern A, you might get the room echo:

"A pair of soldiers in the back of the room laugh and begin placing bets as a brawl erupts between a few dusty mercenaries."

And in upscale Tavern B, you'd get the echo:

"An enraged dwarf begins to make a scene, but is dragged to the street by a pair of scowling soldiers after breaking a few empty mugs."

This would
1. Solve the problem of adding additional code.
2. Solve the problem of people simply not paying attention to their surroundings.
3. Ultimately, be more aesthetically pleasing, assuming you came up with some better echoes than my pathetic examples above.

I like this idea because it adds to the environment and still leaves it open for people to pay attention to where they are and what's going on around them. If they choose to ignore it or not pay attention then they will pay the price for it.
It doesn't have a safety latch for those who aren't paying attention and it adds to immersion rather than detracting from it.

[bloodfromstone]

Room echoes would solve the problem nicely. While I still have no objection to a coded 'brawl test', I think that the echoes would give people who don't know the brawl coded bars yet a way of paying attention to their surroundings.
I know I've been unsure myself as to whether or not certain places supported it, and I know that with the number of bars their are out there, eventually there would be one that wouldn't quite cross into the brawling line from the builder's perspective, but might from mine. A few fist fights would happen here and there occasionally, and people who frequent these places would get an idea of how much attention the soldiery pays, in my opinion. This is what the echoes would give some of us who were less familiar with the code access to.

[Maybe42or54]

That'd work.

After noticing a noble watching the small dwarf punch someone, a pair of soldiers drag them off screaming.




The echoes just can't show up constantly, it would give the wrong message also. It is still a good idea though.

[jhunter]

The echoes jsut can't show up constantly, it would give the wrong message also.

Very good point.

[jmordetsky]

[EDIT - Deleted. Trust me.]

[jstorrie]

How would brawl test hurt the game at all? Most of the taverns already have coded echoes that can give you the right information, but I don't see anything wrong with telling people the OOC status of a room so they know how they can play a scene in it.

Keep the existing bar echoes, because there are already a lot, and also add brawl test.

[Nyard]

No, I was being serious, that he got in trouble for trying to brawl in the wrong bar.  The friend that got in trouble just happens to be the notorious face-eater.  He made me add the "JUSTICE!" part.  I'm sorry about that.  But I definitely think it would be a good idea, if it could be done.

[Maybe42or54]

First off.
Dumbfucks don't live long in a world where everyone is out to get them.


Secondly.
Brawl test would just be a RP tool. You use it to know what you can and can't RP and I don't see how that is bad.

[Anonymous]

Brawl test would just be a RP tool.

That's funny, I consider it quite the opposite.

If people are relying on a command to determine their character's actions then it seems very much like a roleplay impediment.

If the scene calls for people to punch each other, then do it.  You shouldn't feel that the brawl code is a free pass to have a row whenever it seems convenient just because it is there, nor should you ignore your character's rage/impulses just because there is no brawl code.

nosave on ; hit jackass

I've done it, it's fun while it lasts.

[House Rising Sun]

This would be unnecessary if the brawling code were included in every bar location in the game.

No fighting in the Trader's you say? Not quite. I can see a smack or two being exchanged before the proprietor calls in John Law, as long as it ends immediately and the place doesn't get rowdy. On the other hand, in the Gaj, the fight would be allowed up until a weapon is drawn or someone gets seriously injured. A way to distinguish between the two, and between all the shades of grey in between, is to have the crim flag come more or less randomly, after enough 'hit' uses within any given hour. Based on such things as the time of game day, the pc population within the room, even the hourly income of the merchant, a player wanting to get into a fight has more realistic concerns on his mind than whether or not the room has the script or whether there's a templar nearby, or whatever else.

[Maybe42or54]

I've done it, it's fun while it lasts.

All of 2 seconds.

Up to 24 hours and 2 minutes before you can play again.



Though I am of the opinion that every tavern should have the brawl code on. Every tavern is dirty and gritty, no matter who goes there. It is the nature of Zalanthas.
If someone punches and a noble gets annoyed.
Wish all I just contacted an NPC templar and requested he clear the hooligans out.

[LauraMars]

A wraith wanders in from the north, holding a teddy bear.

Vaugely gesturing, you say, in sirihish,
"Are we voting?  What's going on?  Oh.  Well I think it's a good idea, for all positive reasons stated above.  Vote Brawl, for great justice."

A wraith wanders south.

[Marauder Moe]

[reposted because I forgot there were 2 threads on this issue]

People (newer players in particular) would start basing their IC choice to start a fight or not based on an OOCly-gained foreknowledge of the consequences.  Granted, that happens already through a player's past characters, but I think facilitating it more with code isn't a good idea.  Also, remember that you CAN be arrested for brawling even in a brawl-code tavern.  With a test-command, I think you'll have more people whining about that.

[jhunter]

[reposted because I forgot there were 2 threads on this issue]

People (newer players in particular) would start basing their IC choice to start a fight or not based on an OOCly-gained foreknowledge of the consequences.  Granted, that happens already through a player's past characters, but I think facilitating it more with code isn't a good idea.  Also, remember that you CAN be arrested for brawling even in a brawl-code tavern.  With a test-command, I think you'll have more people whining about that.

:roll:  You've got that right, I can see it now:

"I did the brawl test and it said I could but that big, mean and nasty ol' templar arrested me anyway! This is injustice! I want justice! I wouldn't have brawled there if the code hadn't said I could brawl there! I wished up and told the imms but they were mean to me and let that big, mean and nasty ol' templar arrest me anyway!"

[jstorrie]

Would >brawl test change someone's mind about fighting in a tavern? Sure. Would that be bad? No, because the difference between a brawl-enabled tavern and a no-brawl tavern is the difference between trying to kill someone and trying to punch someone. Literally. If you >hit amos in the Sanc, you're trying to kill him as far as the code is concerned. But maybe you just wanted to rough him up a little?

[jhunter]

Would >brawl test change someone's mind about fighting in a tavern? Sure. Would that be bad? No, because the difference between a brawl-enabled tavern and a no-brawl tavern is the difference between trying to kill someone and trying to punch someone. Literally. If you >hit amos in the Sanc, you're trying to kill him as far as the code is concerned. But maybe you just wanted to rough him up a little?

Either way attacking someone, whatever your intentions is illegal. You just have a much greater chance of getting into trouble for it in a tavern that does not support the brawl code.

[Jherlen]

Would >brawl test change someone's mind about fighting in a tavern? Sure. Would that be bad? No, because the difference between a brawl-enabled tavern and a no-brawl tavern is the difference between trying to kill someone and trying to punch someone. Literally. If you >hit amos in the Sanc, you're trying to kill him as far as the code is concerned. But maybe you just wanted to rough him up a little?

Either way attacking someone, whatever your intentions is illegal. You just have a much greater chance of getting into trouble for it in a tavern that does not support the brawl code.

Right. The common misconception people have here is that brawling is somehow legal whereas coded punches aren't. ANY attack is very illegal, and you can and should still certainly be arrested if you brawl the wrong  person instead of attacking them.

[Cale_Knight]

You should absolutely be arrested if you brawl somewhere and get caught.

But you won't be arrested if you try to brawl somewhere that doesn't have the code. You'll be killed, since as I understand it the guards won't bother trying to subdue you if you're in "combat" rather than just punching someone via the brawl code.

[Agent_137 (2L2L)]

Fighting is illegal in both city-states. I think an OOC way of figuring it out was left out on -purpose.-

[Tlaloc]

Personally, my answer to this idea would be 'no'.

People should be aware of their surroundings, and actually pay attention to things like room descriptions, local social and cultural mores, and things like NPCs and VNPCs. We don't code things like 'quit test' to play the game for you. We code them to make it easier, OOCly, to find the way out of the game when you want to leave.

Brawling? I suggest keeping better track of your surroundings. If you're in a place where brawls are more commonplace and accepted, you'll find the brawl code in place. In places where its not, you won't.

Once again, the code is not there to play the game for you. If you don't pay attention to your surroundings, and get hauled off to jail or killed for starting a fight somewhere you shouldn't...tough beans.

[Kalden]

Quit test is a pretty pointless command in comparison. You can try quitting out anywhere; yeah, it's a little jarring, but there's no risk.

Brawls can get you you straight-up killed. Often bars are mis-flagged. Not all the bars that should be brawlable are. Do I want to trust my character's life to that?

Then again, it it a lotta work.

[Marauder Moe]

I believe Tlaloc just said that all bars that are meant to have brawl code have it...