Crappy stats

[Dazed and Confused]

I was referring to the person above my previous post...... Now the previous previous post.

[Anonymous]

Its silly to me to think that anyone who wants to be assured their PC will be able to pull a bow will have to special app.

Its no different than someone wanting to play a beautiful PC or a PC with certain skills.  Those are not special apped, and the former certainly conveys serious advantages to the player.

I understand why there is no mechanism in place for stat manipulation by players though.  At least I imagine I understand the reason.  I've played PCs that were bad at what they did.  I've played PCs that were stupid (and everyone treated me like a newbie), I've played PCs that charged into certain death because it was IC to do so.  But not everyone likes to RP through a disadvantage.  So a stat ordering system would result in a playerbase of specifically crafted PCs running around.

I still think there is a better way to offer the player an increased chance of getting what they envisioned for the role without having a mudful of Very Good Strength Warriors and the like.

[Twilight]

Well, hmm, there is one way to put the odds in your favor, and that is by picking your race.  Not everyone has access to muls, half-giants, or D-elfs, of course, but within the normal starting races you still have a pretty good way of affecting your stats outcome.  Now, your concept might be an elf that can pull a bow, and that I can't help with.  But a dwarf with even poor strength is probably going to be able to pull a bow.  Of course, you can also sort of do it the other way around, and be making dwarven merchants and half-giant magickers and such...

I've never really thought that stats in the end mattered as much as some people make them out to.  Certainly they affect you, but a good flexible background can handle whatever stats come your way.  Poor stats can be beneficial even.  Heck, take warrior strength for example:  I've had two human warriors with poor strength that lived a long time.  They had no problem with light pull bows.  Both became fairly good at combat, one became pretty badass.  Now, while a nice strength might have helped me kill things, a poor strength actually helped me when training other people.  Like I said, the character was pretty good.  Even with poor strength, there was the chance, when sparring, that I would kill a new opponent in between the time I typed kill and the wait state wore off.  Poor strength was a godsend for training, in this case.

I seem to have wandered off topic.  Anyways, I like the stat system as it is.  Always adds a bit of suspense to a new character.

[Angela Christine]

Race is one way to manipulate your stats, but there are others.  People who are big are usually strong, people who are small are usually agile.  People who are young are agile, people in thier prime are strong, and people in their old age are wise.  This is in the docs, although not neatly gathered into a "help stat manipulation" file.     Most large, 30 year old human newbies will be able to pull a bow.  Even an elf, if he is a large, prime-of-life elf, should be able to find a bow he can use -- although it may take a while since most places have a limited selection of bows.

AC

[Elven Mul]

Dazed and Confused: "Your honor, the previous poster is wrong based on my garbled and incomprehensible ramblings, I therefore rest my case."

Anyway, on the subject of stats I know this sounds a little glib, but don't worry about your stats. I've played Armageddon for about 10 years, and in that time I have had exactly TWO characters with good stats. Two. Both happened to be human warriors. On the other hand, I have had several long-lived bad-ass characters, 40 days plus where stats do matter little. You name it, I've had it with bad stats--humans, half-elves, dwarves (poor dwarves), elves (they actually tend to have good stats apart from strength), and even muls, which was quite disappointing. I guess I'm one of the unlucky ones, but it's never stopped me from having a good time with characters. Generally, unless you are consistently unlucky, there is at least one decent stat you can play off.

If you get stats contradictory to your description, contact the game to change your description. Usually it's strength that is the immediate problem, although I do not believe this is the most important stat by any means. Regardless, I don't think stats are changed after your reroll, so changing your description is probably your best bet.

[swordmaster]

My tip for playing with bad stats>
Focus on your strengths, defend against your weaknesses.

In RL, I'm much smarter than I am strong.  When I enter a confrontation, I choose the avenue of approach so that it favors me.

A warrior can do the same thing, if you're a physical wuss, use your brain.  That's what makes thinking creatures so dangerous, anyway.

ok focus on my strengths....wait a minute i dont have any! :x

[Flaming Ocotillo]

In Armageddon MUD, character stats have an enormous impact on what your character can get away with code-wise. Characters with high strength rolls will do much, -much- better in combat than characters with average strength rolls. I've played characters with the best of stats (unbelievable stats), good stats, mediocre stats, and poor stats.. and when it comes to combat, stats will make or break a character. No question about it.


Example:

I am a human with exceptional strength.. I am standing beside a human with below average strength.  The rest of our stats are all equal at "average".

Before us is a dwarven warrior with some heavy armor. He is ready to kill someone.

In one scenario, I attack the dwarf with my stone warhammer and hit him on the head with my best roll on his armored greathelm - the dwarf is knocked out - I win the fight in a single blow.

In another scenario, the human beside me uses the same stone warhammer (weighing him down considerably) and hits the dwarf on the head with his best roll - it just isn't enough strength to knock the dwarf out and fully penetrate his armored greathelm - the match continues and the dwarf is wounded. Maybe the dwarf will hit the human on the head and kill him in the next round.

In a third scenario, the human beside me uses his dagger (which won't weigh him down) and hits the dwarf on the neck with his best roll - the armor deflects most of the blow but the blow goes through - the dwarf is injured and engages the human. Unfortunately the human's low strength does not permit him to wear a great deal of armor in defense against the dwarf.

In a fourth scenario, I use the same dagger and hit the dwarf on the neck with my best roll - the blow goes through for heavy damage as it pieces the armor - the dwarf is heavily injured and engages me. With my high strength, I am armored heavily in defense against the dwarf.


The above four scenarios serve a rather mundane purpose: to remind the reader how stats work in a coded system. When the stats are high, they give bonues.. sometimes really, really high bonuses. When the stats are low, they give penalties.. sometimes really, really severe penalties.. particularly when considering what options are open to each respective character in terms of equipment selection. The character wtih high stats has a choice of every piece of equipment he finds (barring class limitations). The character with low stats can't effectively use a lot of what he might discover (heavy weapons, armor, missile weapons with a strong pull, number of weapons on his body, etc.)

Here's an example list of things high strength characters can do:

Subdue opponents with much more ease - knockout oppoent
Break subdue with much more ease
Kill an opponent in a single blow
Wear any choice of armor
Carry a broader range of weapons
Use a wider selection of bows
Do severe damage (including stun damage) with weapon attacks
Do more damage with non-weapon attacks (kicks, wrist razors)
Break an opponent's weapon in combat


Anyone have the sudden urge to blurt out how having a high agility is more advantageous than high strength? But the argument here isn't about strength. It's about having high stats. Strength, agility, wisdom, and endurance.. if you've got high rolls, you're definately going to have a lot more paths open to your character in what they can and can't get away with in-game. And with that said, does anyone have the urge to blurt out how this is an RP MUD, and that stats shouldn't ever restrict what you can or can't play? Go ahead. Say it. But do you honestly believe it?

[krelin]

If the point of the game is to be the best at everything, then of course stats matter.  But for many that simply isn't the point.

[Anonymous]

If the point of the game is to be the best at everything, then of course stats matter.  But for many that simply isn't the point.

I agree.  Its about playing arole to its fullest.

But there are times when I want to play the rugged, buff conan-like person, and not having the strength to match my desc feels lame.  To me there is nothing wrong with wanting to play a big tough PC.  

The buff, massively-armed man strains as he picks up an agafari chair.
An agafari chair partially rises from the ground.

I'd be all for a system which allowed for you to focus on one stat to the detriment of another or all others.  Even if that single stat was strength, just so I could play a desert elf ranger with the guns to pull back on a slingshot.

This isn't about being the best, its about having the strength stat to match a particular role you envisioned.

[Khorm]

I don't see the problem here, if you get the occasional desire to play Conan, then write up a special application for it. As long as your concept doesn't include killing everything in sight, it really shouldn't be an issue. As far as rolling up a warrior with poor strength goes... First: don't make your background so specific that you feel like your character can't live without a massive strength score. Second: find a reason to train more, a character with poor strength is going to need to focus on hitting more vulnerable areas (and I think this is what higher skill = higher damage means). Third: choose your battles, if you have a weak guy on your hands, is it really IC to go ahead and try to bash on some angry dwarf? Sounds like a death wish to me.

And who really says warriors need to be that involved in PvP anyhow? My current character has an excellent strength score, which in my 10 days logged, hasn't even been put to use in a situation where I'd need it.

[Carnage]

I don't see the problem here, if you get the occasional desire to play Conan, then write up a special application for it. As long as your concept doesn't include killing everything in sight, it really shouldn't be an issue.

I don't think they were referring to playing an Armageddon version of Conan, as much as playing the strong warrior type. I doubt anyone cares to wait a month or two with a special app just so they can play someone with above average or higher strength.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Adressing a specific example, I think that too many people play desert elves and then get frusturated when they find out they can't even use a bow.

Zalanthian elves are NOT the fair-featured, expert marksman that you'll find in any other fantasy game.  Physically, they are very weak.  This makes it difficult for many of them to use a bow.  Deal with it.  Only the most elite of elves, the upper percentile, will be capable of using a longbow, but even so an elven ranger with above average strength can use a shortbow or a sling no problem.  I've actually seen slings do a lot more damage than one might expect.

If you want to play a desert elf ranger, you will find that there are a LOT of benefits that desert elves get in that particular role.  Having more than a shaky chance of using a longbow is not one of them.

On a further note, even without having a priority system for stats, there are ways you can affect the outcome.  I'm not sure if size has anything to do with it, but race definitely does.  Do you want to be strong or tough?  Be a dwarf.  Agile or wise?  Be an elf or half-elf.  I understand there are RP requirements for these races, but with a little thought you can approach the flexibility of a human.  For instance, a dwarf's focus could be to find a focus, giving you a lot of freedom in choosing your actions.  An elf might be more mischevious than criminal, not a dark, hooded cloak-wearing, rinth-accented, backstabbing wonder.  A half-elf could look like a human (or an elf for the matter) if you want access to certain jobs or positions.

[Kalden]

I put this in another thread, but I'm going to repeat it.

Stats define your character.

Think about yourself. I'm sure everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. Personally, I'm not too strong, but like reading and thus I'll probably be in some sort of intellectual career. My lack of strength and agility defines who I am, always has. People say this is about roleplaying: your stats are part of the role.

An example of a role: a gruff, ripped tribal human who looks down upon the weak city people. He has to be strong. That is why is he a leader, and why he has confidence.

Another role: a quick, stealthy pickpocket. You can put all the personality of that in, but if he isn't quick and agile, he's not much of a pickpocket, and he's going to die. A character with low agility should not be in the pickpocket guild.

Your stats are the innate abilities and characteristics of your character. They aren't just code. They are your character. If you're low on wisdom, then you're dumber than the average guy, and that's how you've been your entire life. If you're really strong, you're probably a lot more dominant than the weaker people.

Height and weight also affect strength more than anything else, but I won't get into that...

[EvilRoeSlade]

So how high do your stats have to be before its acceptable?  Is a pickpocket with above average agility acceptable, or is he as well too bad of a thief to be a pickpocket?  Maybe you should just suicide any character that doesn't have the stats you want, if stats define your character so much.

Let me let you in on a little secret.  I once played a burglar that probably had the crappiest stats you could imagine.  And do you know why?  He was a half-giant.  Its a poorly kept secret that no race has worse agility than that.  You know what else?  Not only did I have a BLAST playing him, I also succesfully utilized many of his skills, including hide and sneak, steal, and pick.  If I could get by as a burglar with half-giant agility and size penalties, than I'm sure that your elven pickpocket with below average agility or whatever can get buy too.

Stats do NOT define your character.  Role-play defines your character.  If you want to play a ripped, gruff tribal who looks down on city humans, then I don't care what kind of stats you have, because you can.  If your description is written properly, all you have to do is look intimidating.  Now, if you want to actually attack the city dwellers then even if you have a high strength you'll probably be somewhat dissapointed, because until your more than a newbie warrior, you'll get your ass kicked no matter what your strength is.  It seems to me like you just want to play a bad-ass from the start, and the fact is stats won't do that for you unless your playing one of the karma races.

[Rindan]

I put this in another thread, but I'm going to repeat it.
Stats define your character.

I think that it would have been more accurate to say,

Stats define your character, if you let them.

Sure, it is easy to make a background about being the fastest hands in the south, but you are doing so at your own risk.  Not everyone who is strong becomes a warrior, not everyone who is fast becomes a pick pocket or assassin.

It is far wiser to build your character around his personality.  When you start your skills are so low that it is safe to say that either you have no clue what you are doing, or if you have had any practice it is very minimal.  If you build your character around his personality it lets you be free to determine the next course in your character's life based upon how he would decide what to do.  

If you are that burly warrior and start with poor strength, then just say you had an injury.  It easily explains away your low strength.  How your character deals with his disability is up to you.

If you are a pick pocket, then simply make your background be that you are an aspiring pick pocket.  If you start with very poor agility, then RP wise it means that you must focus heavily on distraction over actual speed.  Code wise, a high agility is nice, but without a doubt secondary to actual skill.  True, you need to work harder, but ends up meaning little in the grand scheme of things when you are truly skilled.

As far as wisdom, that is something that I think should be flat out ignored.  Code wise, wisdom just affects magik and how fast you learn.  How fast you learn to swing a sword is completely independent of how smart or cunning you are.  Bill Gates is a very smart man.  It doesn't mean that he is stupid if it takes him a long time to figure out sword play.

Finally, if there is a certain stat you absolutely want to make sure is average or better, it is generally very easy to get this if you are not greedy.  If you want to be a buff warrior and roll average strength, be satisfied and stick with it.  Average is good enough.  If you are greedy, then you might very well get yourself very poor strength.  You get two chances.  It is damned near impossible to get very poor in anything two times in a row.  

You can certainly base your character off stats if it pleases you, but you are doing so at your own risk.  It is far safer to base your character off personality.  

If these threads about stats prove anything, it is that a lot of people want high stats.  No one is satisfied with average, much less below average.  That is exactly the reason why things should be left as they are.  If it is truly that important that your character have the perfect stats, then special app it.  People vastly over estimate the affect stats have on their characters.  Skill is absolutely paramount in Armageddon.  The fear that less then perfect stats leads to a worthless character is absolutely unfounded.

[Carnage]

Higher stats will help you a greater deal. There's no question about it. If I have an exceptional agility warrior and you have an average agility warrior, both are similarly equipped and with the exact same skills, there's a decent chance my agility monster is going to kill yours, but not by much.

If these threads about stats prove anything, it is that a lot of people want high stats. No one is satisfied with average, much less below average. That is exactly the reason why things should be left as they are. If it is truly that important that your character have the perfect stats, then special app it.

Agreed. Don't touch the attribute system, it's fine as intended. Sometimes you get damn good rolls. I had five characters in a row get exceptional endurance. Hell, one of them had v. good strength, exceptional agility, extremely good wisdom, and exceptional endurance. Sure, he could have gone far, but if he was up against a slightly better warrior, he would have lost. Skill > stats.

[Kronus]

You know, I don't think I've ever had a character get a stat better than 'good'. I tend to end up with everything falling between average and above average for my PCs, which has never been a problem for me. I'd much rather be slightly above average in all areas than be supremely strong and vastly deficient somewhere else.

Right now I'm playing a character with below average in a stat. And, unfortunately, it's a stat which is already reduced on account of race, which probably puts it pretty far down on the overall scale of stats. Below average. Kinda sucks, right?

Well, my last character had 'above average' in wisdom. Pretty cool. A neat little juice on getting skills up just a little faster than everyone else. Well, after about 15 playing days with that character, I noticed I was still having a LOT of trouble contacting people over the Way, so I wrote the account asking someone to look into it. The imm mailed me back saying, basically, "Well, the skill is maxed out and your wisdom isn't that good, so the skill isn't that high and it won't ever get better."
My wisdom isn't good?! It's above average! How good does it have to be before it's good? - That's what I was thinking at first. I was, honestly, kinda pissed that my character sucked at the Way and had no potential to get better despite being above average.

But then I got to thinking about what 'Average' and 'Above average' and so on really mean. I hope Sanvean will forgive me for this while I delve into the real of numerical values and stats.
In stock Diku, stats are measured from 1-100. I have no idea if Arm follows this trend, but for this example we'll stick with that range. Obviously, all races except human get modifiers to these stats. For example (and again, this is in no way accurate of actual Arm mechanics), a mul might get a +25 strength, making the range for mul strength 26-125.
Barring that, let's have a looksie at how it might break down:

1       - Pathetic
2-15   - Very Poor
16-25 - Poor
26-40 - Below Average
41-60 - Average
61-75 - Above Average
76-85 - Good
86-99 - Very Good
100    - Exceptional

I have no idea how close this is to Arm methods, or even if I included all the possible categories for how a stat can look when you type 'score'.  The main point of making this list is to help prove my point, which I think still applies to Arm's stat system, regardless of how it actually works

That point is, on 'score', there's a huge apparent difference between above average and good.  In reality, that difference could only be one measly point. Have a 75 Strength? It's above average. Have a 76? It's good. Does one point make a difference at all? No.
In the above chart, I think my 'above average but bad' wisdom character might have had a 61. Just barely enough to nudge out of average, but not enough to actually be above average. But I had no idea.

And neither do you Your below average strength warrior could well be one point shy of average. A 39 versus a 40 wouldn't matter to anyone if they could see the actual numbers, so I really don't think it's worth it worrying about the difference between average and below average either.

I like that stats are given to the players in the way they are. It gives you a very rough idea of how to play your character, and at the same time makes it pointless to try to min/max or second-guess the reroll to get more powerful. One nice things about Arm is that there's almost always a way to work around a deficiency. It just requires a little work and a little strategy.

That low strength warrior who's forced to wear light armor and only carry one weapon has nothing to worry about if he's a skilled parryer and disarmer. A decent throwing skill and a friend who can poison his knives makes it even better.

Stats help, but getting low ones should be seen as a chance to exercise creativity, not as a crushing defeat.

[Anonymous]

My main concern is when stats do not match your physical description or keep you from doing something.  I'm not saying doing it well, just not being able to do it period.

More prevalent low-str requirement bows would be a good answer.

The problem of drawing up a physical description as some buff dude only to have crappy Str is an annoyance.  Its hard to feel good about your huge desc when you can't lift a crate.

I've played exactly one oh so super duper buff guy and his str was fine.  But I've come across some others who couldn't lift the toilet seat to pee despite their rippling muscles.  Either that or their pack was weighed down by a few too many tenstone of obsidian because they struggled and strained.

My workaround for this has just been to not attempt to make the big buff dude unless its a race that's going to be ripped no matter how bad the role is (mul or hg), but that's my choice.

The best solution to this I could dream up involved more work than the issue warrants.  That would be revealing stat rolls during chargen and changing the order of character creation so that stats are revealed right before the last two steps which would be sdesc and desc entries along with saving stats so that people can't keep disconnecting until they get a roll they like.  This way someone with bad str can account for that in their description without having to send a revised desc/sdesc to the mud.

The next best thing I could envision was tagging a single stat so that it would get the highest role, or a random bump up while one of the other three received a decrease.

The idea of a Zalanthan working out with weights seems like a rare concept to me, so its not something I've ever pursued.   Like someone else posted, my martial PCs are more interested in soaking up the shade.

[Kalden]

One of my main points was that stats define your goals and your life. The point is that someone without good strength and endurance would not pursue the warrior career, and wouldn't be able to get the skills. It's a fact of life, and in a harsh world like this, a boy doesn't get to go with his dreams. He does what he is good at. Unless you have some background with him getting drilled as a warrior even though he was puny and frail as a kid...

The thing I used to like about random stats was that it forced you to come up with more original characters, and take their innate abilities into mind. On some muds, people have the tendency to make beautiful characters, and more beautiful characters. Using random stats, the imm can just chuckle and say, "10 charisma..  you're plain looking, girl." On here, there's only 4 stats, so that doesn't happen

I still have to argue with people who say stats don't matter, even if they contradict your description.
Might as well get rid of the damn things if you don't consider them valid ICly! I mean, come on. The stats are part of your character. Roleplay it.

That said, perhaps the best way is having point based stats. If you put a lot of points into strength, you can play a good, realistic warrior. Takes away the twinkishness, too. I suppose you could decide to play an intellectual or sneaky warrior... I just don't really understand it. Would most people here hate point based stats, where you apply points where you want them when creating?

[Boggis]

I just don't really understand it. Would most people here hate point based stats, where you apply points where you want them when creating?

I wouldn't like it myself. They way they are now is kind of vague which I think is good. Ok, you know your strength is above average but is it a tiny bit above average or are you a hair's breadth away from good strength?

I wouldn't mind seeing a tag system that would allow you to select one stat from the four as your primary stat, the other three being randomised. I think if something like this was added it would be better if it was something you chose right when you enter the game after your PC has been approved and all that. Maybe would cut out all the disconnections that would occur if you got to see your stats during character creation as people searched for super statman. I know it's possible that you could get four crappy stats but I think odds are very good that you'll get at least one decent one. If you did get four crappy ones well then I guess you'd just have to deal with it much like people do now but it should happen a lot less.

[Kronus]

That's not a bad idea. Maybe it's changed now (I didn't check last time I was up there), but I remember in the past, your stats didn't even get rolled up at all until you pointed to a location from the Hall of Kings.
It seems like it would be pretty easy to add another command to that room that tags a stat to recieve the highest one rolled, and leaves the other three randomized.
And then, of course, that stat remains tagged if you choose to take your reroll after you get into the game.

[crymerci]

Heh, yeah. I recall typing either 'stat' or 'score' when my last character was in the hall of kings and immediately panicked: "Holy Crap! Every single one of my stats is awful!"

[creeper386]

I still don't think tagging a stat to be "the highest" well help that much. Most the time, either my stats are great, or they are all below, above and just average. Maybe thats a good thing, I'm not sure if I've seen anything below that. If I did it was along with a higher stat that I didn't care about it.

Now, I well say stats really aren't that important except at the very begining. And I'm thinking at higher skill points, if two even people are fighting equipment might end up being more important then skills(Rather it's light/heavy, good or just made for parade ground). I think the most problem that comes with stats, is when you try and wear equipment goes against who you are.

Sure it sucks to make up a big buff guy and end up being completely weak, or making an assassin that trips over his own feet... But when you make a character, you must know, right off the bad, he is going to ABSOLUTELY SUCK. Stats may make it so it takes longer to get good, or it be quicker, or make it so you can't use that massive ten foot tall obsidian sword, but I've found low stats to sometimes a blessing when it comes to RP. Specially when I utilize little quirks and such so I don't have to drastically change my character idea.

And for people who think they should email the MUD to have a description change just because of stats, I beleive your just plain silly. That sort of thought has never even came close to passing through my head. Sometimes I might feel alittle down and not really care greatly about playing my character, but when I'm thinking the worst, more often I get surprised and those characters end up being quite rememberable.

In closing, I guess I have to say, when making a character, you have to go along just like you would from an OOC aspect. Aspect the worst. That doesn't mean you have to go about making weak characters, or dopey characters, or ones that trip over themselves, it just means that you shouldn't except uber stats JUST because your characters big and your description says he's buff as hell, or because he's thin and toned and is an assassin. Heck, if I do plan on stats, it isn't that they are going to be high it's that they are going to be low. All it takes is alittle bit of rethinking the way you go about creating you character.


Creeper who had a LONG closing, SHORT opening... And non existant middle, and truthfully has no clue whats in most of this post.

[Angela Christine]

Heh, yeah. I recall typing either 'stat' or 'score' when my last character was in the hall of kings and immediately panicked: "Holy Crap! Every single one of my stats is awful!"

Yeah, and your encumberance is unbelievably heavy just from carrying your coins and that spiffy disappearing outfit.  It sure puts things in perspective though, when you get into the game and find you have one or two stats below average; at least they aren't all awful!

I don't know that stat-tagging would help me at all.  It would probably just leave me paralyzed in the Hall of Kings for an hour trying to decide which stat to tag.

Strength - I don't often play warriors so I shouldn't care about strength, right?  But I often play characters who like to collect stuff, bags and bags of stuff.  It sucks to not be able to unload your pack animal because you can't carry that much weight, if I couldn't carry that much weight, how did I pack it all on there in the first place?!  Great for anyone without a storage room.

Agility - Yeah, baby.  A stat that helps you avoid getting hit, untill you can recover your wits and run away from the viscious vestric, what's not to love?  It also helps with archery, something all my doomed rangers appreciate.  Important for nearly everyone, except perhaps tavern junkies.

Wisdom - Learn fast, woo.  High wisdom gives me some chance of getting good at something or even branching a skill before I accedently run my character into the silt sea or off a cliff while having Wile E. Coyote flashbacks.  Great for everyone.

Endurance - Meh.  Since most of my characters are fond of the "run away from the slightest sign of danger" stratagy, an extra 10 or 20 hitpoints doesn't mean much to me.  Either I run away successfully, or I get killed, having high endurance might keep me alive an extra round or two but the end will be the same.  It is helpful with the Way though, you can never have stun if you like to use the Way.  Helpful.

Is it better for my merchant to have high wisdom so he can branch to Wagonmaking as quickly as possible, or should I gamble on strength so he can carry around a large inventory of raw materials and finished products?  I don't know, and actually haveing to choose which stat was most important each time I created a character would slowly drive me insane.

AC

[Master Z]

Either I run away successfully, or I get killed, having high endurance might keep me alive an extra round or two but the end will be the same.

And if your stamina is poor, you won't be running too far

I'm pretty sure I've noticed some other effects of high endurance not mentioned in the docs or anything, just because of playing a character who's edurance is really good. Not sure how many of them are just my imagination though. Anyway, I don't really have a point, besides that endurance does effect stamina as well as stun and hp. Maybe it factors into carry weight along with strength too. Not sure there.