Drawing weapons from cloaks,belts,packs etc.

[I]

Imagine this, you are being held hostage my some random raider who is holding a sword to your throat, he ask for <random object> which is in your pack. Fortunately, being the warrior you are, you are never without a weapon and have a knife in your pack. So, you feign scaredness, and reach into your pack, remove the knife and wield it, but to bad for you he has already slit your throat when he sees you taking the knife from your pack.  :cry:

Should you not be able to just draw weapons from containers, or at least be holding them when you get them out? Sure you could just spam it:
                                                                                      get knife pack
                                                                                      ep knife

Instead of:
              get knife pack
              ...
              you get the knife from your pack
              ep knife

Agree? disagree? Comments? Yes? No?

EDIT: Spelling mistake.

[Rindan]

Eh, I wouldn't suggest it.  If someone has a weapon at your throat, I think it is pretty doubtful that you could get to your weapon before they hack into you, especially if that weapon is burried in your pack.  If someone I was sticking up did that to me, I would be very irritated with their twinkishness.

Think of it this way.  If I was to put a gun to your head and tell me to give me your backpack (which has a gun in it), would you really dive your hand into the backpack, shuffle around for the gun, level it on me, and pull the trigger before I splattered your brains onto the wall behind you?

If you REALLY think you are that good, then I would suggest doing the following to make it not twinkish.  Get your weapon from your bag, then wait.  Let the person attack first and try and hit you for one round, then draw your weapon.  If you are a truly bad ass warrior, you will easily dodge the other guys attacks, then kick his ass.  If he is better and faster then you, well, you will be dead - as you should be.

[Cenghiz]

We do need a command 'threaten'.. At the moment, you may want to play out a crossbow aimed to the face or a dagger ready to slit the throat but heh, even with 'backstab' there's no way to do the thing you meant codewise. I would love to see any 'backstab' owning guilds to have a threaten command who rolls the dies for backstab but delays the damage, till the victim tries a coded command other than communication commands.
But heh, coding's one tough job.

Back to the topic, err.. A weapon in a backpack? Wouldn't it cut through the cloth/leather and fall or slice the other things inside every time your kank decided to hop onto a large rock? Of course one with a special sheath inside may be applied but heh, we have weapons sheathed into anything; boots, wristsheathes, belts, back, even hair! Do we really need it?
And as the second, I agree with Rindan, if someone codedly immobilized you and held a dagger on your throat, or you decided he can and played along, better not try to draw something.

[Marauder Moe]

Sleight of hand, anyone?

[Cuusardo]

When you've got something sheathed, you know exactly where it is.  When you've got something in your pocket or your pack, you have no guarantee just where it is in there, especially if you've got other stuff in there with it.

[Bogre]

Sleight of hand, anyone?

The burly, crimson-inked man snarls, his hand around the lithe, voluptuous apparant f-me's throat.

The burly, crimson-inked man says, in sirihish "Aight, mah pretty, han' them jools over or I break yer neck."

The lithe, voluptuous apparant f-me raises her right hand and waves it about, screaming "Oh no omg!"

With her left hand, the lithe, voluptuous apparant f-me slips her small dagger in between the burly, crimson-inked man's ribs.

The lithe, voluptuous apparant f-me says, in sirihish, massaging her neck, "Break that."

[Qetesh]

As cuusardo stated, something sheathed on your belt or back, in an easy to reach location is going to be a lot easier to get to then something buried in a belt pouch or backpack. If you want a weapon readily available, keep it sheathed. There are lots of items in the game that work as sheaths.

[Nao]

Back to the topic, err.. A weapon in a backpack? Wouldn't it cut through the cloth/leather and fall or slice the other things inside every time your kank decided to hop onto a large rock? Of course one with a special sheath inside may be applied but heh, we have weapons sheathed into anything; boots, wristsheathes, belts, back, even hair! Do we really need it?
And as the second, I agree with Rindan, if someone codedly immobilized you and held a dagger on your throat, or you decided he can and played along, better not try to draw something.

Cloth - unlikely, unless you carry around razorblades.. Leather? No way. Ever tried to cut some leather? that stuff is TOUGH. pierce through cloth if something has a sharp tip, like a dagger or something but not cut it, unless oyu apply a lot of pressure

[CosmicEgg]

I agree with the original poster. If the guy asks you to reach in your backpack for an object, and you've got your hand good enough on the grip to pull it out of the backpack, then at that point you simply should be wielding it, you've got it in your hand, don't you?

emote apologizes for run-on sentence ahead of time.

I think weapons should default to your hands whenever you have them, rather than your "mysterious inventory". That way you wouldn't see someone wandering around with spare swords or throwing knives, etc. without having a place to properly store them as he goes about his business.

[Bogre]

Well things in your inventory just means things easy at hand. This can mean actually in your hand, tucked in between your belt, in an easily accessable pocket, slipped in your shirt, or on a table nearby. This means people can carry weapons/anything around in their inventory at easy reach.

And even grabbing something doesn't mean you can automatically wield it. Your grip on it will most likely have to be changed somewhat on a weapon just grabbed randomly, or even reversed.

[CosmicEgg]

Well things in your inventory just means things easy at hand. This can mean actually in your hand, tucked in between your belt, in an easily accessable pocket, slipped in your shirt, or on a table nearby. This means people can carry weapons/anything around in their inventory at easy reach.

Yea, I'm suggesting this shouldn't apply to weapons. I can look at you, but I can't see the extra three shortswords you've got with you on the nearby table, or wherever else on your body you think you can manage to fit the things. If they're not covered though, I can see the ones on your belt. Imagine disarming someone who's dual wielding swords, then they just whip 3 more out of thin air. Fine, I know you'll argue it's not thin air, but c'mon, these people should have to grab a sword out of their backpack, or  wherever they might have to store them. It would make mechanisms like  wristsheaths actually useful. Furthermore, if you can wield a weapon from your "inventory" (laying on the table, tucked between your belt, wherever), why can't you wield them from any other storage place (codedly on the table, in your backpack, inside an actual pocket or belt)?

And even grabbing something doesn't mean you can automatically wield it. Your grip on it will most likely have to be changed somewhat on a weapon just grabbed randomly, or even reversed.

Why not? I've carried knives before, and when you situate them on yourself you make sure to place it in such a way that you can just grab it and be ready. Even if you need to adjust your grip it's hardly more than a flick of the wrist. If you put a knife in a backpack and you think you might have to actually use it, you don't just drop it in there and cover it with food, coins, chunks of rock, etc. You have it strapped somewhere, with the grip facing to the top of the backpack, pointed in the right direction for the hand you'd expect to grab it with.

If changing your grip on it is so important, add a delay to the wield command:

Someone starts to wield an obsidian knife.
Someone has wielded an obsidian knife.

Not practical because it -should- happen in the blink of an eye, no?

I'm not trying to fight here, in fact I think my opinion is a losing battle, but this is how I look at it and I feel I make some valid points.

[Maybe42or54]

It would make mechanisms like  wristsheaths actually useful. Furthermore, if you can wield a weapon from your "inventory" (laying on the table, tucked between your belt, wherever), why can't you wield them from any other storage place (codedly on the table, in your backpack, inside an actual pocket or belt)?

Wait, wristsheathes aren't useful? I always thought they weren't used a lot because they just add more weight and who really needs that many weapons? Some lunatic is my first thought.

I'm not trying to fight here, in fact I think my opinion is a losing battle, but this is how I look at it and I feel I make some valid points.

You did make some Valid points, but those points can be easily abused. Here is my question:
Can backpacks and other containers have sheathes -and- also a place to store things? Too hard to code?

[Angela Christine]

I believe the code takes inventory clutter into account.  So that guy might have been disarmed -because- he had three more swords stuck under his arm (or wherever) and if his inventory had been empty he might have succeeded in resisting your disarm attempt, or he might have already done enough dammage to kill you.  Besides, keeping things in inventory long-term is icky.   If I want to pick up a few twigs I'll have to akwardly move the other things out of my inventory to make room.   :x   And while most people won't "notice" that you have a bunch of stuff in inventory, any peekers will, and peekers are the people most likely to be able to pickpocket them off of you.  I bet it is easier to steal stuff that is just lying around in inventory than it is to steal stuff that is properly put away or sheathed too.  Sure, you -can- carry extra weapons around in your inventory, but there are consequences to doing so that make it unattractive.



I believe that some auxilary sheathes aren't used much because the syntax is clunky.  Instead of being able to "draw" and "sheath" you have to "load" and "unload" which requires having the item in inventory rather than in hand.

The other problem with sheaths is that they are, overall, horribly over-priced and seem to be getting more expensive all the time.  A pair of sheath boots that used to cost 80 sids in Allanak a few years ago now cost more than 300.  Simple sheaths ordered from PC merchants typically cost hundreds of sids.  These aren't fancy spring-loaded numbers, they are little more than a pocket with straps on, yet I've had PCs ask for 800 sids for one.  In addition to being expensive, the merchant houses appear to have OOC limitations in how many they are allowed to produce in an IC year, they can produce an infinite number of leather pants, but only a very few leather sheaths.

I've waited weeks or months of real time to buy a knife-belt, wristsheath, bootsheath, or (Tek help me) an ankle sheath, because at times they are really hard to find.  Despite that, I've never even considered just carrying weapons in my inventory instead, not even when I've been in a clan like the Byn where you are expected to carry your training weapons in addition to your regular weapons.  Usually I carry the extras in bags, packs or pouches, knowing that they will not be accessible durring combat.  



Angela Christine