Spice up the dungeons a little bit!

[Nyard]

Something really should be done to make the dungeons more interesting.  It really sucks just sitting in there for an hour or two, waiting to be released.  You should have somebody animate an NPC and interact with the PC somehow when he/she has to go into the dungeon, or something.  Really, you guys don't know how to punish somebody properly!   :wink:   You should at least torture the guy or something, don't just make him sit there and wait!!..  Really, though, can anybody think of anything interesting to add to the dungeons?  I feel like I'm being punished, not my character.  

[Manhattan]

when im imprisoned i usually bust out a few virtual action. like rats scuttering around by my feet and me screaming loudly and trying to get on tiptoes. or have virtual sludge drip off the walls and getting all over my armor and trying to clean it off. and i also add to the room echos that we usually get in the dungeons with a few of my own. or you can sit in a dark corner and contemplate to yourself.

[Mulatto_Prophet]

Kind of defeats the purpose if you have a rip-roaring time in the dungeon, doesn't it? I mean, there is supposed to be a consequence for your actions, and I don't think it should be a positive one.

Seems to me that it's kind of like being sent to the corner in kindergarten.

You could take the oppurtunity to explore your character's motivations, or plot revenge on the bastard that put you in there.

However, this is written from the viewpoint of someone who has never been thrown in jail...maybe the prison could use some more of those automated scripts to help give players something to react to why they are in jail?

[Delirium]

Well, if you run out of things to think about or emote about or just plain don't feel like solo-RP..

Use your time in the dungeon to write up echoes to submit, making subsequent visits possibly a bit more interesting?

[Nyard]

I know what you mean, but I play this game to have fun, not to sit in a dungeon for two hours doing nothing.

[Nyard]

That was directed at Mulatto_Prophet, by the way.

[Mook]

Yeah?  Well I -do- play this game to sit in the dungeon doing nothing.. it's relaxing, really - like yoga.

Don't know what the problem is here.

[Mulatto_Prophet]

Well, I think the crux of my argument is:

If breaking laws were fun, then this MUD would quickly degenerate into a hack and slash game where no one -really- cared about the consequences of their actions. Part of the "harsh/gritty" atmosphere is the fact that every effect your character does will have another effect.

And, though I have yet to be sent to jail, I would like to think that I would use the time in both reflection of the crime, and how I could avoid capture again.

But back to my point, this mud has attracted me because when you push against the MUD, it pushes back.

Think of jail as the MUD saying "Welcome to armageddon, A**hole.

[Larrath]

If breaking laws were fun, then this MUD would quickly degenerate into a hack and slash game where no one -really- cared about the consequences of their actions. Part of the "harsh/gritty" atmosphere is the fact that every effect your character does will have another effect.

And, though I have yet to be sent to jail, I would like to think that I would use the time in both reflection of the crime, and how I could avoid capture again.

But back to my point, this mud has attracted me because when you push against the MUD, it pushes back.

Think of jail as the MUD saying "Welcome to armageddon, A**hole.

Breaking the law -is- fun, and really, the prison isn't about punishing players by sticking them in the Realm of the Dead until they learn their lesson.  Prison is important so that the Militia doesn't instakill everyone that messes up, which wouldn't make much sense anyway in a place with -so- much crime.  When in prison, you can solo roleplay.  You can also hope some representative of the law will come over and give you some further interaction.  You can look around desperately for a way to break out.
Prison isn't what deters the real criminals, though it does seem to hold back some of the crazed newbie killers.  What the real criminal is worried about is the templar, because templars don't tend to let such real criminals just walk off after they catch them.  Torture exists.  Hehehehe.

Removing the prison would probably make the game more gritty as opposed to less, since there would be many more dead criminals out there, but it would also make the game that much harder for everyone.

Maybe some nice prisoner NPCs could be a nice addition to the prisons.  The staff could get a little informative line whenever someone got to jail (assuming they don't already) and just pop into the NPC if they feel like it.

[Mulatto_Prophet]

From Larrath:

When in prison, you can solo roleplay.

Ha, at least one of my points doesn't seem so stupid now. Disregard everything else I said, but at least take the oppurtunity for some solo RP.

[Ghardoan]

Having spent more than my fair share of time in the game's various prisons, I honestly have to say that things are fine the way they are.  Rotting in the dungeon can be, as many people have already pointed out, an excellent opportunity to develop your character, and also gives law enforcement PCs a chance to come and "visit" you.

But most of all, I sympathize with Mulatto_Prophet: "...this mud has attracted me because when you push against the MUD, it pushes back." Besides, the more severe the reprocussions of our actions, the more exciting the action is itself.

Ghardoan, who last got arrested in Allanak for jaywalking.

[amoeba]

From Larrath:

When in prison, you can solo roleplay.

Ha, at least one of my points doesn't seem so stupid now. Disregard everything else I said, but at least take the oppurtunity for some solo RP.

It can take sometime for some people to get into, much less enjoy solo RP.  At times I enjoy it, other times despise it.  If you are like me and have a harder time getting into it, jail time is a good place to try out somethings without having to worry about being watched or judged on your roleplay.  Yes the IMMs may be watching, but I was always much more aware of other PC's than the IMMs.  The jail is a good place to hone VNPC interaction, or use the cockroach NPCs to practice working with NPCs.  It's also a nice time to practice with "thinking" because jail is such a visreal experience it helps with the process, gives you things to think about.  

If it absolutly drives you batty, there is nothing wrong with "change ldesc is slumped dejectedly against a flithy wall."  and taking the time to do something else. It is a game, sometimes a break is needed.

And to add to what Delerium said, you may find that you have a good idea or two, and can add to the game for other peoples enjoyment.

There will be times in the game which get tedious.  It is sometimes hard to balance realism with enjoyment, but as you move further in your character's development,  you will often find that that time spent in jail, or other "dull" places was worth the downtime.  Not always, but much of the time.

[Qetesh]

This has been discussed before and you can do one of two thinsg if you are sitting in prison board out of your wits.

1. Solo emote, you could emote scratching a stick figure on the wall with a rock or emote talking to some other random lacky that you can't see in the dark.. so on and so forth..

2. You could very politely wish up for an Imm animation and if someone is on, they might oblige you. Though that may be much worse for your PC than just sitting quietly and hoping a templar or solider doesn't notice them.

Also bear in mind that Jail is not supposed to be fun. Stealing is the fun part.. The getting caught blows. So a good rule of thumb here would be.. Don't get caught.  :wink:

[Anonymous]

Also bear in mind that Jail is not supposed to be fun.

I'm uncomfortable with that statement because players shouldn't be punished for in-character actions.  Sitting alone in a room having a mud timeout seems more like a player punishment than a PC punishment.

That being said, I also understand the need to have some reason for people not to steal->steal->steal->steal->steal->steal->steal->steal or attack people whenever they wanted.  I also think it's unrealistic to expect immortals or templar/militia players to drop everything they are doing and come liven up your next thirty minutes because you failed a steal attempt.

Having played other games where jailtime was hours long I think Arm strikes a good balance between realistic punishment and playability.

[Maybe42or54]

I don't think it needs to be spiced up at all.
A few PCs ago, my pc was in for carrying spice when a private came in and raped my pc.

I hear screaming all the time in there. Can't be that bad.

And don't let Naiona get wind of this thread. She'll make it an even more scarier place.

[Northlander]

I like jail, but there could be more beating up of PC prisoners going on. Talking the south here, how'd it be to have the militia PCs commonly on prison duty? With Recruits authorised to abuse and higher ranks allowed to release there might be some more happenings. Give the militia PCs reasons for being around there. Does the Templarate make a few black out of selling younger ones to slaving houses? Do they ship a few off daily for House Tor's backstab seminars? Have respawning NPCs in the cells, send the militia in to beat them over the head, subdue and carry. These'd be awesome events for the guardfolk-players and surely bring them into other PCs' cells more often.

Solo roleplaying shouldn't be knocked though, and a rotten, stinking jail cell's a great place for it. But there's no shame in alt-tabbing away from Arm. Prison's not the player's punishment.

[Cuusardo]

You are more likely to end up finding these things in game by writing up NPCs and echoes that you would like to see, then submitting them rather than starting a thread on the GDB that says "Hey IMMs, you should do this!"

[Qetesh]

Threads like this are what spark those ideas. Though writing up an NPC or two is always nice but we actually have a list of things that we need help with here, if anyone is feeling frisky.

http://www.zalanthas.org/blogs/current/

But anyway. I think the original post was saying that it could be more fun if these sorts of things were done.. But maybe in the wrong way. No need to brow beat them for that and it has started an interesting discussion on ways to make jail time more RP intensive.

Besides, it's not like we listen to you guys anyway.. It's our Mud.. OURS!!! MUAHHHAHHA!!!

Back to the discussion.

[corona]

One word: TORTURE!

We like it  :twisted: .

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

Quetesh wrote:

you could emote scratching your name on the wall with a rock

Sorry for nitpicking, but isn't that writing?
Graffiti is fine, but a personal peeve of mine is commoner characters writing or reading even though they don't have the read/write skill. I just wanted to point out to new players- graffiti is fine, so long as it doesn't contain any words or letters. Illiteracy is the norm.

[Qetesh]

Good call, I've changed it and taken the IC stuff out of your post.

Sometimes I forget the silly things. But illiteracy is not only the norm, it would be -REALLY- bad RP to portray yourself as being able to read or write, unless you do have the skill, even something as simple as your name.

So yes, you could not write your name on a wall nor write anything else that contains letters or words. But you can draw pictures and things of that nature.

[Spud]

The jail should be more borring. And you shouldent be able to quit out of it. This would discourage players from mindlessly stealing.

Being able to quit is a playability thing. The player shouldn't be punished for having a bad thief or assassin who was caught. It can't always be helped.

[Savak]

We do get a message when someone is thrown in jail.

Unfortunately, it would be pretty much a full time job requiring more than one staff person to jump in and "entertain" "bored" characters (well, players), who are in jail.  Therefore, do not expect it to happen.

We are, however, there to help the -entire- game be as believably realistic as possible, balanced against playability.  It's one thing for us to automate some echos or even NPC's, and another for characters/players to ignore them or shortly state how boring they have become.

One thing which -might- be of use is to send a message to law-enforcing PC's who are logged in, when someone is thrown in jail.  I don't think it is or should be their responsibility to run off and "entertain," torture, or slaughter them -- but the option would be more available.

That said, I think it's pretty well established that "boring people are often bored," while interested and interesting people are less often bored.  That can be taken as simply as it is stated, or it can be applied a little more liberally, in that characters who live their lives in believable and interesting ways are also generally more likely to draw NPC's and VNPC's into their web of activity.  Yes, I know that given enough time in isolation, most people will eventually lose their drive.  At the same time, that mirrors what many PC's will be feeling -- I'd feel free to let that frustration slip from your shoulders onto your character's (hell, it's your character's damn fault anyway, the bastard!).

-Savak

[amoeba]

That said, I think it's pretty well established that "boring people are often bored," while interested and interesting people are less often bored.

Now you have me really doubting my current character. I hope thats not universally true.  :?

[Yokunama]

Threads like this are what spark those ideas. Though writing up an NPC or two is always nice but we actually have a list of things that we need help with here, if anyone is feeling frisky.

There would probably be some twinks out there who would kill the NPCs. Even better, it might give that thieving twink a chance to work on his/her stealing skill a bit more.

[Whira's Luck]

Actually, maybe the scribble command could be tweaked to be useable in jail? Instead of the scribbling in sand message, if you have a lightsource it could be something like:

>scribble A crudely-drawn templar's face leers from the floor.

You pick up a chunk of rock and begin to scribble a drawing.

It then boots you into the editor to enter a description of the drawing.

Maybe they don't last super long in the prison (a week or so), but it might be nice for people who are stuck in prison with a light to look at or do in their boredom. Maybe log it, so no abuse of 'writing' occurs, or however it's handled with the same command in the wastes.

[Northlander]

The echoes are great as they are; good job with them.

I'd certainly agree stationary NPC:s shouldn't be put into the cells PC prisoners can get thrown into. Shackled, put in particularly-certain-death-cells and valued at a hundred 'sid each, though, they could well make for fun roleplaying material and have more militia PCs running about the jail. Messaging these PCs directly at every PC incarceration would certainly be better at keeping prisoners from being bored, but would as surely create some odd scenes with militia-folk leaving half-drunk ales at the bar.

Maybe there could be small, crumbled holes in the walls between cells, letting prisoners communicate or watch an NPC get tortured nextdoor. As much work as this might sound like, there are obviously a number of oft-incarcerated players willing to write should prisonwork interest a staff and be put up on Current Projects.

This is as low priority as much everything else that's added to the mud but there needs to be room for the crappy, indiscriminate and obstinate thief. What'd it be like to have your character arrested ten times in a row? Should the cells be made more mad, so that after a few goes your character's either barmy or reformed?

You who get bored with jail, how often are you thrown in?

[Praetorian]

One thing which -might- be of use is to send a message to law-enforcing PC's who are logged in, when someone is thrown in jail.  I don't think it is or should be their responsibility to run off and "entertain," torture, or slaughter them -- but the option would be more available.

-Savak

Actually, instead of an automated script that sends a message automagically to law enforcement pcs, maybe put a script on the jailkeeper where law enforcement pcs can contact the jailkeeper, and psi 'recent criminals please', which would start the jailkeeper automated script to contact back and psi 'the lanky, spidery-limbed man was recently incarcerated, not yet released.'  Naturally would only work for militia clan-flagged pcs.  I'm guessing more militia pc's would like to check on the prisons more often, but its a heck of a walk to wander down there only to find them empty of pc criminals and then have to wander back to the city

[Bardex]

What if templars got a double-beep whenever someone gets tossed in jail? That way they can decide whether or not they're available to investigate. Virtually, it amounts to the jailer sending the templar a generic psi saying "Fresh meat, Lady Templar."

Then it's up to the templar if she wants to check it out or if she's busy or if she's the "let'em rot" type.

[Yokunama]

I'd certainly agree stationary NPC:s shouldn't be put into the cells PC prisoners can get thrown into. Shackled, put in particularly-certain-death-cells and valued at a hundred 'sid each, though, they could well make for fun roleplaying material and have more militia PCs running about the jail. Messaging these PCs directly at every PC incarceration would certainly be better at keeping prisoners from being bored, but would as surely create some odd scenes with militia-folk leaving half-drunk ales at the bar.

That could be done with -virtual NPCs-.

[Anonymous]

What I do in jail.


> think please god don't let there be a templar online
> think please god don't let there be a templar online
> think please god don't let there be a templar online
> think please god don't let there be a templar online

[Anonymous]

OH GOD THE SHUTTER OPENED


IM #%$^ED

[Nyard]

What I do in jail.


> think please god don't let there be a templar online
> think please god don't let there be a templar online
> think please god don't let there be a templar online
> think please god don't let there be a templar online

Um, aren't think's supposed to be IC?

[Eternal]

Lord Templar Hard Nose is personally offended by your comment.  Animating NPC's... the real question is why aren't the templars in there keeping you praying that you -don't- get noticed!

Back in my day... they put you in there naked!  With nothing more to do than stare at the caricature of Nessalin drawn on the wall for 3 hours of play time...

Now that I've got that out of my system.  I always used jail time as a great time for solo rp.  Playing with virtual scenery, long deep introspectives (or hallucinations, depending on your character), even just moments of mortal terror.  I was mucho impressed when the little touches that the Imms made with occassional rats and cries from other cells.  As far as for NPC interaction (or PC templars)... be careful what you wish for.  Many templars (dated info, but I'm sure it's still true) will make calls on the cells and pick on the locals... both npc/pc/and vnpc.  I honestly think it scared people more (or at the least was more enjoyable) when I visited and executed the sniveling elf next to the pc halfbreed, then kicked the halfbreed scum on the way out.  Also, I none-too-fondly remember players whining about how templars always picked on them in the cells... you can please some of the people some of the time...

Bottom line, enjoy the cells (and the fact you get to keep most of your stuff!), they are in themselves a great rp experience to be had by nefarious types.  My first few characters on the game spent a -lot- of time in there, and I honestly feel that it was where I most developed both those characters and my appreciation of solo rp.

Lord Templar Hard Nose has left the cells... and returned to Armageddon!

[HalflingWhore]

Heh, jail doesn't suck so bad from an entertainment standpoint when you get looked in by a templar. From an IC standpoint, it can mean death. But I so -love- it when compared to just sitting it out in boredom.

[Mean_Old_Bastard]

I would strongly support a automated code to notify templars/militia.
AND it would be best if this was handled by the jailkeeper waying the pcs.

Of course it could just be an echo to those clanned, but come in to the form of psi.

I've had character throw in jail and sit there...bored...
I've also had a character, who a templar was prowling the quarter for after I broke out of jail. Heh, that was great, had to be an imm that notified the templar...as...shoudl have ICly happened though. The imms actions just take control and give voice to the npcs and vnpcs that are there.

Well, I think it would be great to have such a code.

[Nyard]

Whoa, you broke out of jail?  Lockpicks, I assume, eh?  Cool.

[Halaster]

Kind of defeats the purpose if you have a rip-roaring time in the dungeon, doesn't it? I mean, there is supposed to be a consequence for your actions, and I don't think it should be a positive one.

Seems to me that it's kind of like being sent to the corner in kindergarten.

You could take the oppurtunity to explore your character's motivations, or plot revenge on the bastard that put you in there.

However, this is written from the viewpoint of someone who has never been thrown in jail...maybe the prison could use some more of those automated scripts to help give players something to react to why they are in jail?

I'm not saying we're going to start RP'ing npc's or whatever in the dungeon, but I don't entirely agree with this line of thought.  I think that being thrown in jail is an In-Character consequence for an In-Character action.  It's not meant to punish the player OOC'ly.  From a pure OOC point of view, we don't think there's a thing wrong with stealing, murdering, and other criminal activities in the game.  They're a legitimate part of the game that just happen to have IC consequences.  So, I agree with the idea that jail should be more 'fun' from an OOC point of view for the player because it's just another part of the game world and a chance to roleplay.

[Eniriah]

A lot of good ideas in this thread....it's gotten me to thinking of what I can do to help spice things up when I'm on.

emote flies to the red-haired, freckled PC who is sitting in a jail cell.
emote reaches down, giving ~red a HUGE wedgie!

shout YOU HAVE BEEN WEDGIED BY A BIKINI CLAD ELLYLLON!

emote cackles, flying off.  :twisted: