Subdue and killing

[Carnage]

I've heard that you can break someone's neck while they're subdued. Can anyone confirm this, and if so, list the command? Personally, I emoted out breaking something's neck and just used unarmed to kill it while it was unconscious.

[Anonymous]

*Grows irate and grumbles incoherently about newbie muls and half-giants*

There is no command that I am aware of.

[Callisto]

I prefer taking a more flamboyant approach to subdue killing. First, you subdue the person. Then, you make your way towards a tall tower, or the shield wall if its a Bynner, and throw them off.

Subduing and knocking someone out to kill them will leave the player feeling cheated, since there is no fucking way you are going to keep a good hold on someone and still manage an attack powerful enough to send someone to sleepy land, but if you throw them off the shield wall and let them fall to their death, they will remember it for the rest of their Armageddon days.

The player that is, the character will be quite dead.

[Swordsman]

"Subduing and knocking someone out to kill them will leave the player feeling cheated, since there is no fucking way you are going to keep a good hold on someone and still manage an attack powerful enough to send someone to sleepy land"

I'd say it depends on who the two people are (attacker and defender). One thing that amazes me IRL is how strong some people can be, without looking all that strong. If you look at some types of athletes they don't have a lot of obvious muscle bulk but they are actually very strong ... much stronger than someone who might look more muscular. I think it also depends on how you see the subdue command (and how you RP it out). Subduing someone basically means you've got a very good grip on them. For someone who knows what they're doing, against someone who is weaker and/or doesn't know what they're doing, I'd say it would be perfectly reasonable that the attacker should be able to apply a choke hold (reducing/cutting off the blood supply to the brain) and 'knock out' the defender that way. It'd depend on how you RPed it. Bottom line: the combat code (including subdue) should settle any debates about whether your PC managed to grab/knock out the other PC or not, unless it was something twinkish (like spamming commands so the other person doesn't have a chance OOCly to react with an emote or flee attempt). All IMO.

Swordsman

[Marc]

I'd REALLY like to see subdue put less influence on size/strength/agility and much more influence off of skill.

As it is half-giants are close to no fail with subduing smaller creatures/people.  While I agree that once a HG gets his hands on you, you will be VERY hard pressed to get away, if you are faster then a three-legged gurth that same HG should have a VERY hard time laying his hands on you to start with.

Subdue'd hits are so powerful, expecially from uber-strengthed races like Muls/HG's that they don't need bonus's to subdue.

Suggestion:

Make subdue 75% skill and 25% size and stats.  Bigger people will get a slight advantage, but their success wont be entirely based off size.

Once subdued, give strength more of a benefit to retaining control.


In the same breath, the same should be done to throwing.  Its pretty disguisting that a newbie, 1 hr old HG warrior WITHOUT the skill can throw much better, and do vicious damage throwing while a human/elf/dwarf assassin is lucky if he can scratch a rats skin.

[Swordsman]

I think your idea of splitting subdue into 'attempt' and 'holding' bits is really neat, Marc. FWIW, two thumbs up from me.

Swordsman

[Marc]

I think "my" idea is already incorporated, it just gives to much of a bonus for size and strength at the moment.  Newbie half-giants have little to no problem subduing, even against skilled combatants (wielding combatants?) and/or very very quick people.  It just seems wrong, and skewed w/ perm death.

Maybe subdued damage just needs to be neutered.

[Delerak]

Dont know what you've heard, but I heard that gladiators or muls or some shit used to get "finishing moves" or some shit, I don't know if its true, I don't care, but if something was subdued/morted/stunned they could use a command to break their neck, decapitate, tear in half, or something of the sort.  Again, just shit heard around irc/aim.

[Twilight]

My only problem with the subdue command is the wait state from the kill command.  I think there should be a front loaded (before the skill takes effect) wait state on subdue such that the wait state from the kill (or bash or kick or assist) command is slightly shorter than the combined wait state of flee + 1 room of movement at running + subdue.  Since subdue can be just as dangerous as backstab it seems, at least in the hands of muls and half-giants, this also makes a bit of sense.  Could make the wait state dependent on agility, so an elf could subdue someone quickly, with almost no front loaded wait state, while a half-giant or mul would take a little longer, but have a better chance of succeeding due to their strength.

[Delerak]

I like that idea