The Daily Virtual Minutia of Zalanthas As Seeds for Plot.

[The Imms Know Who I Am]

I'm playing a leadership character of late, and have been looking through the threads on recruiting, keeping clan members busy and all of the buzz surrounding such.

I have of late gotten the feeling that a good deal of the players in my clan are somewhat bored, and have been taken to tavern sitting, for which I feel somewhat guilty.

This led me to the obvious place most leadership PCs have found themselves I'm sure which is, "What can I give them to do? I want them to have fun."

There are the obvious things, spying, doing errands etc. But I can't help but think that most of them have "been there done that" and I know some of the more experienced players have taken to logging in less.

That said, I starting thinking about all of the things that go on, on a daily basis that support and extort cities like Allanak and Tuluk.

Merchants houses are transferring crafted goods, buying raw materials. Criminals are smuggling things into or out of cities. Borders are being scouted. Slaves are being caught, trained and delivered. All of which are happening virtually.

And in thinking about that, I thought....man, all of these things would be great RP opportunities for my clannies, save for the fact that their not really happening. Not without Imm support anyhow, without Imm support all of these things could happen semi-virtually but only sans tangibles.

What the purpose of this post is, I would like to see more imm supported, "Mini-quests" with tangible goals and consequences.  I think this would seriously increase clan membership as it would attract the individuals who are opting out of clan life because it tends to lend itself toward solo-rp if the clan is weak in numbers.

To further this, I'd like to see mini-quests that are "required" to happen where if players don't take the actions required by the clan, then the caln suffers in game.

For example (a very simplified example mind you)  Salarri clan leaders are required to ship a wagon of weaponry from Allanak to Tuluk by a said date, or Salarri will essentially lose X sid in revenue to independent contractors, which over time may begin effecting it's monopoly status.

Or perhaps certain criminal organizations must find a way to smuggle X  bricks spice into Allanak or risk the prices of spice skyrocketing and dealing with an influx of competition.

On a weekly basis the details surrounding the mini-quests could be assessed by the staff which determine what the next set of mini-quests will be, and/or whether they lead up into a major intra-clan rpt...

Thoughts?

[Rhyden]

Without hesitation, both thumbs up.

Awesome idea. It may be a little harsh on the imms, but I think like a once-a-month little RPT-type thing would be really worthwhile. It would also allow clan leaders to take a break from creating every single plot involving their clan/house.

[Maybe42or54]

Make them say they quit and then spy in another house, where you bribe them with everything they want?

That's what I do.

[amoeba]

I say cool, the more the better.   I think entirely too many people play it safe,  ask for something that will necessitate risk.  Some random Ideas.

-- That noble has a hankering for fresh mantis meat, maybe mekillot brains.

-- Lord Fancypants needs a box delivered from point x to y,  But he wants to keep this low key, only two people allowed and stay off the roads.  Of course the route should be rather dangerous.

-- A Salarri captain gets a wild hair, and deceieds he wants a head count of all halflings within x number of leagues.

I could go on, basiclly these are real tasks, fraught with real dangers.  Put a new recruit with an experienced one on a dangerous trip,  or maybe more totally green recruits by themselves (love to be the IMM watching that).   IMO playing it safe leaves you with a long lived character, but a rather dull life.  It also gives more opprotunities for those folks preying on the unsuspecting.  Make it dangerous.

[The Dude]

I really would like the idea of more day-to-day clanly tasks (especially the dangerous ones!) being more required of clanned players.

[Forest Junkie]

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree.

In my opinion, every action on this mud should be done without immortal supervision or intervention. I feel that, as a whole, the staff want to take on more of an "observation" role, where they get to watch the players in the clan they oversee.

There are certain things that can only be done with immortal backup. I understand this, and encourage support from them. Without them the mud could not function. My point is, I feel that the staff have tried to express to the players several times that they want -us- to be the people who make things happen. Staff-run plots are great, but I have to say, when I see a player create a plot by themselves and run it without the help of a staffer, I applaude and respect their efforts.

"Mini-quests" are fun and do happen, BUT:

I honestly feel that if you or your underlings are not having fun, you as a leader have an obligation to "make shit happen". Stir something up. Get your troops fired up. Get your spies bribed more. Keep your lackeys happy. Give them tasks. Formulate plans and quests that will utilize the skill and prowess of your underlings. When they see that their unique and powerful skills are being used for a purpose, I promise you they will start logging in more.

That's my take on it all, anyways. Hope I didn't misunderstand your purpose.

1) Create the goal.
2) Create the quest.
3) Create the plan to enact.
4) Create the consequences for each action your players take.
5) Take action.
6) Have fun.

Oh yeah...

7) Die when you fail. Miserably.

[amoeba]

In my opinion, every action on this mud should be done without immortal supervision or intervention. I feel that, as a whole, the staff want to take on more of an "observation" role, where they get to watch the players in the clan they oversee.

There are certain things that can only be done with immortal backup. I understand this, and encourage support from them. Without them the mud could not function. My point is, I feel that the staff have tried to express to the players several times that they want -us- to be the people who make things happen. Staff-run plots are great, but I have to say, when I see a player create a plot by themselves and run it without the help of a staffer, I applaude and respect their efforts.

I guess I should read the messages closer. I agree with FJ, all the tasks I suggested do not require IMM support, just do them.  There is a lot that can be without thier support.  If you're in the military/guard/mecenary type of clan, "special training" excersises can always be effective for breaking the routine and getting a lot of people killed.

[Larrath]

All sorts of 'mini-quests', IMM supported or not, are great things.
They're just not always easy to do, and sometimes a little initiative from the subordinates can go a very long way.

It can get very frustrating when one plays a leader and feels that their players are just sitting with their arms crossed and waiting, impatiently, to be entertained.

I don't think that any staff member should run every single thing that happens in their clan and worry to keep everyone, leaders and subordinates, entertained - they have enough work as it is.
On the other hand, a bit of staff-assisted/staff-created mini-quests can be an awful lot of fun.

I still crack a grin every time I think back about the time my House guard rode with the entire unit to explore some location, only to run across all sorts of creatures that'd grunt and go 'Rar!'.  It made a wild orgy of fun out of what otherwise would have been a bunch of people going to Point X, kill a gith or a raptor on the way, and then ride back.

[Solas]

If you're in the military/guard/mecenary type of clan, "special training" excersises can always be effective for breaking the routine and getting a lot of people killed.

:shock:  On purpose? No...why would anyone want to do that?  :twisted:

Anyways, I agree that players should drive these mini quests...but not the typical spy X person out or go on Y patrol. Spice it up alittle bit.  
Also, the consequences from -not- doing these miniquests are a good idea, except that the only problem would be the actual coding for factoring in things such as House budget and competition would probably have to be done by an imm. If a leader pc could find a way around this barrier, so much the better. These small miniquests could also bring alive more aspects of the city...or tribe.

[Delirium]

It can get very frustrating when one plays a leader and feels that their players are just sitting with their arms crossed and waiting, impatiently, to be entertained.

Seriously.

[Mook]

If you're in the military/guard/mecenary type of clan, "special training" excersises can always be effective for breaking the routine and getting a lot of people killed.

Both of which I wish would happen to me!  I'ma go arrange my own 'special excercises' though, because my superiors are (understandably) too busy with their own stuff to arrange these constantly.  Poke around IC if you wanna come, and pre-ordering a coffin wouldn't hurt!

EDIT:
Immz ate my known brainz wrote:

I have of late gotten the feeling that a good deal of the players in my clan are somewhat bored, and have been taken to tavern sitting, for which I feel somewhat guilty.

Speaking personally, I usually tavern sit/idle when rl is drawing too much attention for me to do something more involved, not because I'm bored or such.  Though, if you wanna dance for us, I doubt anyone would complain.   :twisted:

[Forest Junkie]

It can get very frustrating when one plays a leader and feels that their players are just sitting with their arms crossed and waiting, impatiently, to be entertained.

Seriously.

I wouldn't worry about it if I were you.

[Gaare]

It's 4.30 am but I could sleep... What a night....

What the purpose of this post is, I would like to see more imm supported, "Mini-quests" with tangible goals and consequences.  I think this would seriously increase clan membership as it would attract the individuals who are opting out of clan life because it tends to lend itself toward solo-rp if the clan is weak in numbers.

To further this, I'd like to see mini-quests that are "required" to happen where if players don't take the actions required by the clan, then the caln suffers in game.  

I completely agree, this kind mini-quests are must.. But what I can not understand clearly is why they should be IMM supported. There are powerful PCs, clan leaders with a lot of coin to create those mini-quests.
If Clan leaders can not create these.. then this is their bad. If IMM would add a flavour into it, then that would indeed makes things better, but that's a huge ask from IMMs to create mini-quests for players.. If IMMS would do this kind of things, why would we need merchant house and noble house family members? (For giving chance to players to insult, harrass others, RPing bathing scenes..?)  Templars are a different story, they are not clan leaders (Ignoring militia.. That's another long story) but they are at the intersection of the large and mini scale quests of other clans, and that's their responsibility to improve and help those quests by creating new ones or preventing.. heh..

For example (a very simplified example mind you)  Salarri clan leaders are required to ship a wagon of weaponry from Allanak to Tuluk by a said date, or Salarri will essentially lose X sid in revenue to independent contractors, which over time may begin effecting it's monopoly status.

A clan leader easily can say that to their underlings.. A salarr leader can create a schedule (simply mails that to IMM) that he will direct monthly based transfers of X goods, and he should not miss one else his rank increase in family will get slower.  .. I doubt IMMs would disagree.

Or perhaps certain criminal organizations must find a way to smuggle X  bricks spice into Allanak or risk the prices of spice skyrocketing and dealing with an influx of competition.

Same here..  What stops that clan leader to do the same thing with his/her underlings anyway?


IMO There is an OOC side of family merchant and noble roles. Here are my examples..

i) Borsail noble: Instantly want to learn current land distrubution of tablelands. In every two IG month send a patrol to those dangerous lands.

ii) Tor noble: As a casual duty, PC group would make one of IG monthly patrols to obsidian mines and lower the number of attacking beasts that may cause to virtual caravans.

iii) Salarr merchant: In every IG month produce casual special orders and carry 3 scrab-chitin shield, 2 beettle shield to Tuluk and bring 2 carved wooden shield and 2 gurth shield back to Allanak..

iv) Kurac merchant: Order your men and women find 50 pinches of black 50 of red spice with your personal group in each IG month.. If your underlings can not insult them, punish..

IMO Similarly as a clan T'zai Byn,a bit of Kurac and underground groups are mostly standing at the intersection of those kinds of mini-quests.. Surely those ones would create some opportunity to them as well..

The list may simply continue... The small quests above could be just a small addition to overall atmosphere of Zalanthas. They are small.. heh.. The game world is full of politics, integue, etc.. And again..  nobles and family merchants are the ones who has more chance to create plots much easier than the other players.. Because they have both power and coin!

[Bardex]

I'm not really in a leadership position though I have a few similar responsibilities with my character. To me, the hardest part is timing. If you're in a semi-subordinate, semi-authorative position, it's extremely difficult to come up with things for "underlings." You often need approval from your boss, and even if you can get it, implementing it is impossible if your underlings aren't around when you are - or are around when you're not.

Often times I've had -tons- of stuff for people to do, and no people to do them. Other times I've had -tons- of stuff that needed to be done, but didn't have the authority to implement them and couldn't find someone who did.

And so..stuff happens without me, and without the "underlings" who could get involved, and without the boss, without anyone who might have an interest in the "stuff" - all because the timing just plain sucks at the moment.

You can't blame that on anyone, as much as you wish you could. But when the boss who needs to give you permission, and the people who you need to do the tasks, are never around at the same time, you might as well just give up and sit in the tavern and hope to be entertained.

And then something happens where you CAN do something..and there are people around who can help you..and the boss shows up - and it is amazing. That's what makes it worth the frustration of the other times.

[Larrath]

It can get very frustrating when one plays a leader and feels that their players are just sitting with their arms crossed and waiting, impatiently, to be entertained.

Seriously.

I wouldn't worry about it if I were you.

We don't call them leaders because they command a bunch of VNPCs and can order NPCs around.  A leader that absolutely does not care whether his players are having fun is simply a bad leader.

[Gaare]

Leadership in general and creating plots, quests..... Very useful posts especially by LoD:

http://www.zalanthas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1745&;

[Anael]

To an extent, I saw things like this happen, but unfortunately not as much as they could happen. I even saw a nice chains of small plots, where one feeded another and so on. It's fun.
Even simple things can be fun. A Noble House needs to buy something from a merchant House, something made of a rare material? Why not run a mini-plot to gather this material (find its source etc...)?
And just to support what Larrath said, it's wonderful to see players who play the 'lower' ranks -and- are able to make things move. Everyone can do that.

[Swordsman]

One suggestion: do some real-life research. I'm sure there's loads of information on the WWW, not to mention your local library, about real-life desert tribes, military history, and so on, that could give you ideas for IC tasks or mini-quests.

Swordsman

[Akaramu]

You are a leader because the imms want you to run quests for them  :wink:

[Naiona]

Akamaru is in large part right.  I can't even begin to mention how many quests are in game right now that are just 'hanging' and waiting for PCs to act.

Speaking for myself, and myself only - I prefer to generate the seeds of a plot or mini quest and then let the actions of the players dictate whether it lives, dies, succeeds or fails.  There is a ton of really nifty stuff going on in game right now, and lots of it that PCs should know or be concerned about, but because time passes and PCs change without acting, it hangs.

I really don't want or mean to limit quests to leader PCs.  But, often that happens when information doesn't manage to leak or get passed around - though some of it really should be common knowledge. I know it can be difficult relying on the in game rumor boards for information at times, so my question to you all is this:  Would it be helpful if besides the rumor board in game, there was a  'What you probably know right now as a citizen of ....' GDB board for the different cities?

We'd likely have to base membership for the city board on clan membership, because it would be too hard to keep track of otherwise.  Also, I'd make posting to this board staff only, so that it remained true to just the purpose of promoting plotlines and mini quests.  There really is a -lot- going on right now, but it is readily apparent that most people don't know about much of it.  

Again, this is just my personal idea and not something be proposed by staff in general.  I'd like to get a feel for how you feel about it as players before going any further with the idea.

[Jacques]

You are a leader because the imms want you to run quests for them  :wink:

Oh, is THAT it? Every time I've been a leader, it's been because I managed to outlive all the previous leaders. Imms must like old people or something.  

I'm going to make a comment based on an earlier observation/complaint. Someone noted that they're a "semi-leader" but have trouble implementing things to do because they need leadership approval all the time. My suggestion: do some of them anyway - it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission, and the punishment (or praise for your initiative) will result in some additional RP. Are your subordinates happy that you took charge, and are now really upset that you're in trouble for it? Was it a disaster, and now you need to think of ways to build their trust again? Did they laugh as you got tossed in the Arena? LOTS of fun things!

Edited to add:
Naiona, I love the idea of a few staff posts giving us the occasional hint or two. For myself, however, I think I'd rather see more regular "rumor" posts on the IC boards in the cities, rather than a separate board. Animate an NPC and write up a rumor with a hint or two. Occasionally post a false one that leads PCs to their doom. But don't let me know which is which, or even who posted the rumor. I think having a separate board will mean people change their characters' behavior in order to check it and act on it, and I don't necessarily think that's a positive change even if it does forward some cool plotlines.

[amoeba]

I really don't want or mean to limit quests to leader PCs.  But, often that happens when information doesn't manage to leak or get passed around - though some of it really should be common knowledge. I know it can be difficult relying on the in game rumor boards for information at times, so my question to you all is this:  Would it be helpful if besides the rumor board in game, there was a  'What you probably know right now as a citizen of ....' GDB board for the different cities?

I think that a global GDB board would take away a bit from the flavour of how information is spread, a bit too ooc.  I do agree that a lot of information is not spread around as much as it should be.  I see some of it as people for ic reasons feeling like it should be secret, or for ooc reasons feeling like they will lose involement or even a percieved control of the plot if too many people know.  Sometimes stuff should be secret, but other times it makes no sense if everyone and thier brother is not talking about it.  In terms of the ooc reason, I have found the opposite to be true personally.  Rather than a citywide rumour board, one or two blabbermouths in the area would cover it well.

[Forest Junkie]

It can get very frustrating when one plays a leader and feels that their players are just sitting with their arms crossed and waiting, impatiently, to be entertained.

Seriously.

I wouldn't worry about it if I were you.

We don't call them leaders because they command a bunch of VNPCs and can order NPCs around.  A leader that absolutely does not care whether his players are having fun is simply a bad leader.

I was complimenting Delirium for her past pc's who might have possibly been in a leadership position. Sorry.

[Ghost]

I really don't want or mean to limit quests to leader PCs. But, often that happens when information doesn't manage to leak or get passed around - though some of it really should be common knowledge. I know it can be difficult relying on the in game rumor boards for information at times, so my question to you all is this: Would it be helpful if besides the rumor board in game, there was a 'What you probably know right now as a citizen of ....' GDB board for the different cities?

I myself did not like this idea, for several reasons:

For first, not everybody playing arm is keeping track of the GDB.

Second, even if it was, I do think GDB sounds all too ooc to be talking about IG stuff.

Thirdly, IG rumor boards can have those "what we currently know" part, as it was once done nicely in Allanak with the title of "Life in Allanak."  It can be done by staff or players.

And finally, I don't think it strikes the game in a bad way, that the information does not leak.  Most of the stuff IG, I believe, can be reached with enough of a try.  If something is too secret, it better stay secret.  If something is semi-secret and people do not know it, I think people are not trying hard enough to learn it.

So thumbs down, I would say.

[LBO]

Thirdly, IG rumor boards can have those "what we currently know" part, as it was once done nicely in Allanak with the title of "Life in Allanak."  It can be done by staff or players.

Agree with this. The IG rumour boards already work fine for what Naiona is proposing and would mean that anybody staying in or visiting the city in question could hear the rumours. It would be nice if they were used more often by the Imms to put stuff out there that would probably be common knowledge. Players maybe don't always feel 100% confident to do this sort of thing as there is always the question in the back of your mind as to whether all those VNPCs really are talking about what you are going to post.

[the imms still know]

Orignal poster here...3 things

1) Player generated and run quests are great, but in terms of generating in game consequences, (other then pc deaths) they will lack until the imms get involved. That's not to say they don't have their place, but their effects are limited and they do get stale. For example my 'price of spice' example would never fly without the imms. That's not to say players shouldn't be catalysts for things...they should, but imms do and will always need to determine consequences.



2)

[imms still know 2]

Me again...mobile device has a cap...so this a continuation.

2) I really like naionas idea. Reason being. Rumors have a certain heat, which is usually linked to how plausible they are and how many people are talking about them. There's a lot of junk on the in game boards, stuff that random players have posted that are linked to anything of substance. You've seen them. A mechanism for showing which rumors were hot (note that doesn't mean true) would be great.

I can't remember what point 3 was...anyway.

[imms still know 2]

Me again...mobile device has a cap...so this a continuation.

2) I really like naionas idea. Reason being. Rumors have a certain heat, which is usually linked to how plausible they are and how many people are talking about them. There's a lot of junk on the in game boards, stuff that random players have posted that are linked to anything of substance. You've seen them. A mechanism for showing which rumors were hot (note that doesn't mean true) would be great.

I can't remember what point 3 was...anyway.

[Larrath]

I'm against setting a separate board for plots and quests.

Right now, if I read the rumor board and saw rumors about gith moving around Allanak, I wouldn't know whether it was just a player who went too far and was unlucky, or whether the gith are actually expanding.
I like it this way.  A separate board will mean that mundane-seeming rumors will be given far more attention than they should be given, and it will also create a separation.

People shouldn't put more weight on staff-created plots than they do on player-created plots.  They're both IC things that happen to IC people, with no inherent difference as far as the characters are concerned.

[Revanael the Kank]

...I don't think I've ever seen a QUINTUPLE post of the same content before. Triple, yes, I've seen that elsewhere... but QUINTUPLE?