Bribe

[Gaare]

Powerful figures in Zalanthas are corrupt that's a fact. Through out the  documents there are words about how people must bribe law enforcers, important merchants even darkest taverns' bodyguards.

I doubt that's true for IG, in other words I do not think giving and accepting bribe is as common as it is stated in help files.

Also asking for bribe is another story.. and a difficult thing.. What do you think? Suggestions.. Ideas?

[Larrath]

Not everyone can be bribed, and not everyone can be bribed in the same way.  If you're talking to a merchant and making a large order through them and then paying them a thousand 'sids "for their trouble" then that's bribe for them to give you a better price.
Many gifts are really bribes, it's usually just a question of what fits whom.

You should also take timing into consideration.  Giving a templar 100 'sid to let you go after he's told everyone in the tavern that you're Arena fodder isn't going to be very useful.  Offer the same amount when the templar's just looking at you, however, and it might be another story.

Asking for bribes isn't very difficult either, just use subtle hinting instead of coughing and holding out your hand.

[LBO]

It might be hard for most of us players to get into the bribing mentality IG. Its not something that most of us will do generally. Attempting to bribe a police officer for example where I come from is almost certainly going to land you in serious trouble. We're kind of taught in our society that a bribe is a dirty, nasty little thing only used by people with poor morals. Also, many of us probably don't come from a real trading culture where haggling and bartering for things is a normal everyday thing. When I was travelling in SE Asia though I saw how a Zalanthan could act. They bribe all the time over there - its part of their culture and they don't see much inherently wrong with it. If you have the money you have the right to privilege, a word which anyone who reads Pratchett will know originally came from the meaning "private law". Some countries authorities are pretty corrupt too. We got stopped by the police in Bali and spent half an hour haggling with them over exactly how much our fine was going to be for a driving offence we didn't do. After staying a few months in Thailand I saw how normal bribes were for the Thais in everyday business life if you wanted to get stuff done - they're just the grease for the wheel that help move things along nicely the way you want them to. No shame in offering a bribe and none in either looking for or accepting one either, provided you do it with a degree of discretion.

So, in my opinion when somebody tries to bribe you in Zalanthas don't take it like they're trying to say to you that you're a bad person. They're not. They're simply acknowledging that you have the ability to make something go more smoothly for them and that by offering you the coin they would like for this to happen if you think it acceptable. Similarly, looking for a bribe to do something for somebody should be seen as a natural thing - your average Zalanthan would be expecting to be asked for a bribe. Of course how it is interpretated depends on the circumstances too - a derisory or poorly timed bribe can be insulting. In general though bribes are just the way to do business / deal with authority in my opinion and should be widely used.

[Bogre]

Mmm, bribes. It can be difficult to think up a way to give/offer a bribe in a different way than just: "Hey, I'll give you money if you let me go," or playing a respectable character who might want to bribe to get something done faster/better, etc. In my opinion, you just have to think of ways that you can do it. Would your character be blunt and say, "Yo, take three small and get it to me a week early," or would your character beat around the bush ? ex:

The house aide looks up at the merchant, rubbing his smooth cheeks.
The house aide thinks, "In a half-month? Lord WhaddayaWant needs it in a week!"
The house aide says, placing heavy emphasis on the word 'you', "Uhm, is there anything that could help -you- get that mekillot cannon to me a bit faster?"
The perceptive merchant says, nodding, "Aye, I can get a messenger to run the order up quicker, and that costs three and a half small."
The perceptive merchant thinks, "Ahhh, good, that'll shut up my wife when I can buy her that aba now."

Or whatever you can think of. Most players will be accepting to bribes, and not just be: "OMG you are -BRIBING- me?TEMPLAR!!!!"

It's an accepted part of life, just as in the countries mentioned above where a bribe is the common response to being pulled over by the cops.

[Maybe42or54]

And then if you did do that they should say "OMG! Are you fucking stupid?!"

[Dracul]

You've never played a militia then.

Ooooh. I loved being militia

[The Lonely Hunter]

Just to make a quick reply...

I have played "powerfull" PCs who loved bribes. From Templars and Militia Sgts to rinth scum with "connections". Many, or most rather, do take bribes (depending on the PC of course). Its just most of the time other PCs never offer or it would just be funner to torture the would-be briber.

[Savak]

I can't really buy the proposition that players may not bribe as often as the game world might expect solely because most people in RL wouldn't overtly bribe a cop (and expect to get away with it).  Most people in RL don't run around trying to kill other people with bone swords, either, but players generally have no problem adjusting to that particularly heinous act in Zalanthas.

Instead, I think some players:

1) Fear the relative uncertainty of the outcome -- how much do they want? will they use it as ANOTHER excuse to punish me further? does this make me indebted to them?

2) Are cocky and want to play to "win" -- paying someone off is trading away their winnings, so to speak.

3) Play cocky characters and refuse to adjust to the circumstances just because The Man is trying to put them down.

4) Have difficulty figuring out the best method & timing to bribe to make it "feel" IC, rather than "dude ok how much 4 u 2 let me go".  The previous comment about circumstances was a good one.

At any rate, I don't think it's REALLY an issue with players having a moral compunction against bribery rather than murder.

-Savak

[Elgiva]

At any rate, I don't think it's REALLY an issue with players having a moral compunction against bribery rather than murder.

IMHO, the difference is this:
The Good Hero could kill someone, could be an assassin and could be cheating while fighting for survival (or for freedom, for revenge, for peace or for anything else). But the Good Hero does not bribe. However the Armageddon is not about Good and Evil Heros, this is what we all grown with, because of movies and books.

[John]

1) Fear the relative uncertainty of the outcome -- how much do they want? will they use it as ANOTHER excuse to punish me further? does this make me indebted to them?

This is a good point. If I bribe person X, they can then go and tell my enemy (for example I bribe Oashi guard to tell me small, harmless things about their noble. The aide then turns around and tells their noble I tried to bribe them).

2) Are cocky and want to play to "win" -- paying someone off is trading away their winnings, so to speak.

I have a problem when it comes to 'sid. For some reason it always burns a hole in my pocket. And the only way to stop it is to spend it ASAP

Does anyone really have a problem with bribing because of "moral" issues? If so I'd love to know

Me, I'm almost always bribeable. I occasionally play the exception, but I reckon that the exception would be a small minority of city-folk (tribals may not have a concept of "bribing"), so it's a very small minority of my characters

Having said that, I won't always sell my mother to you. Sometimes I will, most of the time though, I'm only bribable about certain things. The riskier something is, the bigger the bribe. But at some point, it will get to a stage where it's too risky. Where the line is drawn differs from character to character.

And the militia rock when it comes to bribes. I was once playing a half-elf and the militia soldier took me to the templarate quarter and accused me of stealing from him. He said I have a choice, spend 100 days in jail (which I OOCly knew wasn't going to happen) or give him the money I stole. Now me, I didn't steal the money. I don't even know if he had any money stolen from him. But my character assumed he didn't have any money stolen, and so saw it as a bribe. Why was he being accused of something that didn't happen? Because the soldier was in the militia and I was a half-elf. Sure, he'd probably go tell a Templar, and no-one wants to face an angry Templar. So I gave him the money.

That was a lot of fun.

[lazycritic]

At any rate, I don't think it's REALLY an issue with players having a moral compunction against bribery rather than murder.

The issue is partly with coin being worth relatively little. If I have good equipment, a tent, a steady source of income, why do I need another thousand sid?

Readily available assassins up the value of coin for your average PC, but the most powerful uses for coin - hiring a small army, construction work, enterprise, ect, aren't seen as viable options for most people. So what is coin good for besides l33t equipment, some food, and maybe a little spice for a kick that gets old fast?

EDIT: On second thought, willing bribees ups to the value of coin by quite a bit, also.

[Rich_Bastard]

I make a ridiculous sum of money every month, and almost ALL of it goes into bribes.

I bribe my family, I bribe my mother, I bribe YOUR mother, I bribe the templars, I bribe the soldiers, I bribe the merchants, I even bribe my own freaking subordinates.

[Bardex]

The only reason I don't usually bribe people is because it doesn't occur to me at the time. There's also that little thing.. what is the going rate for various bribes? I mean, like let's say you want to get an order delivered sooner rather than later. Would offering an extra 20 sids on a 100-sid item be enough? Would an extra 200 sids on a 1000 sid item be enough? Because, if I had to pay that much extra just to get something I don't really need but would just like to have, I'd rather hold onto the sids and get the item when it comes.

If it's to get my sorry ass out of jail, I guess no amount is too big. Except maybe all of it, because I'd need to buy clothes after the templar strips me naked and tosses me out onto the street.

If it's to get someone else out of trouble, how do you measure the value of that someone else in terms of sids? Do you figure their weight in sids being the highest value, and the accumulated cost of their clothing as the minimum?

When you're out in real life, the whole tipping thing is easy to understand. 15% of the order for decent service, 20% for excellent service, and nothing and you talk to the manager if the service sucked. A buck a bag for the bellhop, 20 bucks for a limo driver, etc. etc. These are "standard" rates for such things. Do standard rates exist in Zalanthas?

[Maybe42or54]

Know the person you are going to bribe because everyone needs something.

[John]

Know the person you are going to bribe because everyone needs something.

And it may just be companionship. Yup, companionship can be a bribe

[Maybe42or54]

Sex, massages, RL money, orgies, a well placed bottle of spirits that is spiked with Special K, some coin, a fancy purse, a fancy weapon, anything can be a bribe people! Even telling a templar that his one in 3 Looking F'me is sexing it up with a little PC miner can be a bribe!

And instead of "Bribing" someone. Just call it "Gifting"

[Larrath]

Except the RL money part.
People who use OOC influences like that, whether by offering or by accepting, shouldn't be playing here.