Voting Idea - enhancing feedback on your roleplay

[witchman]

I was discussing on ISCA in MUDDING> with Walker of 4lands about their voting code.  I think this idea could be applied ot Armageddon and wanted to see what ya'll thought.  Here's my idea:

Vote <person> <reason>

An account would only be allowed three votes (for different pcs) a week.
Each vote would be noted in the pinfo file, would assist IMMS in deciding when karma should added the account.

Alternatively the acount could recieve a mudmail message regarding the vote.

Perhaps negetive votes could also be made.

I would love to see this integrated with other things that Walker does on 4lands including letting players create objects and or change short descriptions...but that's a whole other topic.

What do you think?

If it were implemented, I'd have to say one character can only vote for one other character once in say... six months. And reduce the number of votes per week to one or two, no rollovers.

But see, I'm scared about this, because I can see a lot of people using it as an OOC tool.

"I hate you Bob, take this!"
negvote Bob He twinks foraging

[Fedaykin]

No thanks.

As Tony stated, I think it could clearly be used as an OOC tool.

If you want to assist the imms that badly in determining who gets karma etc, or want to pass on good or bad thoughts about a character, mail them.

Karma is supposedly based on immortal trust within a player to not abuse the roles they are given and to be able to play them out well.

I think there are people who can role play well who wouldn't necessarily fall into that category.

Leave it to imms, and if you want a role that badly, thats what special applications are for.

[witchman]

Hrm.  I'm surprised that there are so many people opposed to the idea.  I would love to hear why though.  OOC abuse arguments aren't really convincing in my book, I mean how many other things can be abused.

Other than telling someone OOC that their RP is good or that you appreciate their emotes, or sending an email to the account to have it read (and then maybe having it added to the pinfo file if the immortal has time), what options do we have to really have a voice in how well our fellow role players are doing?

Please, some arguments against it would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[crymerci]

I don't have anything against a comment system where you can turn a flag on and have other players comment on your RP. There's more of us than there are of imms, so if we want feedback it may well be easier to get it from a fellow player.

What I do have a problem with is putting karma decisions in the hands of players. Here's my reasoning:
-If someone is a good roleplayer, I'm sure the imms will notice sooner or later.
-Karma, as someone else noted, is based on trust as well as roleplay. Just because someone is an amazing roleplayer doesn't mean they don't twink out when alone, abuse ooc knowledge, etc. Imms can monitor this better than we can.
-Small communities like ours are already prone to cliqueish behavior, and I think a system like this would increase that kind of behavior. "You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours." or, "I don't want to waste my vote on someone who's not in my clan".
-Certain types of characters would be overwhelmingly better for getting votes than others. City-dwellers and clan-members would have a large advantage. Sociable characters would be better than shy ones.
-The "think" command (a huge tool for building character and showing hidden motivation) would never be seen or taken into account. It's entirely possible that one person might judge a certain character as the most boring or poorly-played one they've ever seen but if they had behind the scenes knowledge they'd realize this character was an act of genius.
-One of the reasons (I suspect, anyhow) that imms don't appear as imms or act like imms when playing a regular PC, is the tendency of players to RP more when they think someone in charge of their karma is watching, and RP less the rest of the time.

[Summer]

I think crymerci has pretty much covered everything I would say. You can give feedback to people by mailing them or whatever, this should be enough feedback, and from what I understand of karma, it shouldn't be the goal of your roleplaying, so if someone tells you that they enjoyed your roleplaying thats should be enough.

I know that when I have rp'ed with an Imm, I had a great time and they mailed me saying they did too, that was more than enough reward I also think that when it comes to roleplaying, it is easy to roleplay with other people who roleplay well, its like you feed off each other's rp. Maybe thats why people rp well around Imms?

[Angela Christine]

My response to the idea is: meh.  M E H meh.  [/obscure simpsons reference]  I've seen it done in a couple MUSHes, and I wasn't all that impressed.  Turning roleplaying into a popularity contest just seems wrong to me.  


Suppose you are in a small iso-clan, tribe, band or whatever.  Since they primarly interact with eachother, they will be voting for eachother all the time.  An isolated PC d-elf tribe with 3 or 4 members will likely get more votes than an independant city character, regardless of their relative merit, because the small tribe will nearly always vote for eachother while no one has a vested interest in the fate of the independant.  If you play a lone character who interacts with others rarely and/or superficially, so few other players will will know your character well enough to judge yea or nae.  

There is also the potential for people to vote for the PCs of their OOC friends, of course it will happen, that is just human nature.   Or to vote against characters that have harmed them or harmed their previous incarnations --  you can always find "legitimate" things to complain about if you are looking hard enough.  People will change their character's behavior in an attempt to impress other players and get votes.  Roleplaying will turn into a competition.  It might even improve the quality of RP, but I don't like it.

It isn't something I feel strongly about, I wouldn't storm off in a huff if the staff decided to code it in.    I just consider it . . . useless, I guess.  The potential gains are slim and not enough to balance the potential harm.  I don't think it works that well, and I don't like the side effects.

On a practical note, the command would have to be restricted so you could only vote for people in the same room as you, to help prevent misdirected votes.  Just like in RL the game allows multiple characters to have the same name, so at one time there were three guys named "Amos" running around.  If you've used the Way a lot you've probably connected to the wrong person a few times.    You definately wouldn't want to mis-direct these comments.

If you really want to comment on something exceptional (good or bad) you can always email the account, so this command is unnecessary.

AC

[Eternal]

I remember that...

contact amos
You contact blah.

think Wrong one.

contact 2.amos
You contact blah.

think How many people are named amos?

contact 3.amos
You contact Amos.

psi Change yer name.

Hahah! So there were more than one, I thought I was just insane, or he just lived a really long time and kept changing his Sdesc. That's beautiful to know.

[Delerak]

Why would that name even be accepted? My next character is definitely going to be named Jesus.

I don't know, what is Amos?

[Delerak]

Web Matches  1 - 20 of 1,700,000 | Next 20

when you get that from a yahoo search of Amos, you know you shouldnt be using it as a name on Arm, I hear there is a Gwenevere running about now, and anyone remember Jerusalem?  Cracks me up people cant think of an original name, even more so the imms let them use it icly.

Well, they probably just don't know, like I didn't know Amos, they might not recognize Minsc or Raditzu or other semi-popular names.

[Delerak]

I would rather see a name like Scar, or Blade, then Amos, it just doesn't fit with the setting, it's an OOC name.  Its like me using Daniel, or something like that, completely screws with the mood when you are roleplaying and some dude goes "Hi my name is Arthur" - its just the way I see it, i think the staff should decline more apps that have no creativity, even when I was a newbie I used weird messed up names that had no true meaning ooc.

[creeper386]

Tori Amos. Some sort of singer/write/philospher/healer blah blah blah. Untill I did a search never heard of 'em... Dont' recon whoever he/she is, is too famous on the large end of things. I personally dont' see the name Amos as out of the setting or anything though, and I'd MUCH prefer it to something like Blade or something shit like that... Why? Because Amos isn't a normally used word.

I think most any name can fit as long as it's not a common word in most well known languages(English, Spanish, French, Australian(Kidding) so on and so forth) or as long as it's not a really famous character, or person. Famous as in a well known person or a lead character in widely distributed books.

If you search for names of your characters, good chance it's going to mean something in some language, or it's going to be used before in a semi famous person or in an out of the way novel or short story someplace.

One of my earlier characters on Armageddon was names Phata(No relation to P.H.A.T. I used the name on another mud for a good two years, and was short on names) You do a yahoo search for Phata, comes up with some 1,240 hits.... Quite abit... But nothing that acctually makes it a widely used word. Things for crossword puzzles or cities or something someplace. Doing internet searches for most my character names comes up with hits here and there. Some like Phata in the thousands. Does that mean they shouldn't be used or that they are completely unoriginal on my part? Before I looked them up I never heard of them, and just came up with something that was pronouncable to a certain degree and just looked good.


Thanks, done again.


Creeper

[Delerak]

You're comparing a thousand websites found in a search engine to a million?  Interesting.

[Eternal]

I agree... I'd much rather see Amos, a somewhat uncommon western name than an awful combination of nonsense words....

I remember a character was once named Panbot... a few of my rl friends told me about that, and we all had a good laugh at the poor player's expense... I hope we didn't scare the poor newbie off.

Actually... I'm writing a Visual Basic program that should come up with pretty good names. See, I stole the system from a post on Topmudsites forums. It was like... you take a bunch of names from a theme, break them up into two letters... like so.

Eternal, Tony, Carnage, Amos

Et, te, er, rn, na, al, to, on, ny,  ca, ar, rn, na, ag, ge,  am, mo, os

Then, you grab one of those at random. Let's see.... GE

So, now you have ge, now pick another two letter combo that begins with e

Ge    er

Ger, continue the process

Gerny.

Okay.. so that one wasn't so good, let's try again

Monal

The only problem with writing this program is... I forget how to use the EOF command, if you know, please tell me

[Angela Christine]

I agree... I'd much rather see Amos, a somewhat uncommon western name than an awful combination of nonsense words....

I remember a character was once named Panbot... a few of my rl friends told me about that, and we all had a good laugh at the poor player's expense... I hope we didn't scare the poor newbie off.

One word: Tubtub

He joined the byn and then I lost track of him since I wasn't in the byn, but it was funny at the time.  I mean, what's the casual form of that name?  Tub, or maybe Tubbie?  Tubby has some merit, but as I recall the guy was pretty skinny.  Tubtub  :lol: It's just a funny sounding name.  What was the poor guy's mother thinking?  

AC

[Delerak]

I have a brief question for those who like and agree to the use of western names.  If you're alright with these, then how is it you are not alright with more common ooc names?  Or are you all just hyprocrits that want to say one thing but not have it apply to the whole?  You like to say it is alright if it is slightly uncommon but if it is very common it is not alright?  Oh and eternal I was Panbot, long ways off, but to tell you the truth it had a background behind it, seeing as it was so old, I'll tell you.  His father was a cook in Oash and his mother was a florist or a Botanist in Kadius, well one night they both got drunk and got it on, 9 months later they have this baby and don't know what to name him.  The father was yelling at the mother and shaking a pan he was cooking in, the mother was breast feeding and tending to some plants, this is where he got his name, the father dropped the Pan, and the mother looked to it and said what about Pan?  And the father said sounds alright, but I think you should be involved as well, and so she said well he is going to study Botany so lets call him Panbot..  No offense but creativity comes in many shapes and forms even if you cannot see the big picture.

[creeper386]

Lets see, Amos, never heard of the name untill I did a search and most likely be the same for a lot of people. Compared to the name Bob. Everyones heard of Bob. There's no hypocricy involved here. It's that very common basic everyday words or names, are different from uncommon names, and ones even if they are famous in a small group on the whole isn't hardly know.

Like using a word from a dead language. Sure, people who know that language might know it as a common word for shit, but on the whole it wouldn't be very many people that know that that means shit in this dead langauge from 400 years back.

I'm sorry but I see nothing that goes against what people are saying. I'm saying the line is drawn on rather or not the name would be know on a whole to the rest of the MUD population.

And for the most part Panbot seems funny even with your background. There isn't many plants to tend to, I wouldn't think it'd get a different name such as Botany, but thats just me, although it isn't two bad to really say it couldn't be used, looking at it I can see it being a name, but not necessarily be pronounces Pan*Bot, but oh well, but also, I'd say a name such as Panbot would be more of a hindrance to the setting of the game then a name such as Amos. You say Amos alone to people, they probably wouldn't make any connection, most likely wouldn't make any connection even if you included whoever this singer/writer/all that's first name.

And it isn't just WESTERN names or words. This goes along with any language thats commonly spoken, like the ones that aren't dead.

Creeper

[Eternal]

Exodus... that's weird... but I do see your reasoning behind Panbot... I'm against any name that begins with Mecha or ends in Bot because of the connontations they have for players.

I'm perfectly comfortable with uncommon names, but agree that I wouldn't like to meet Ryan, the friendly elf any more than I'd like to see Mechagodzilla, the green, scaly half-giant.  Rian would be fine, or even the rarely used Ryanne (the feminine form of Ryan).

If someone wants Blade as a nickname, that would be ok, I suppose... but khanjar would be so much better...  the game gives you so much to play with.

Would there be a sirihish word for botany?

[Delerak]

If Amos is such an uncommon name why did 3 players if not more have it has a name for their characters?

[Delerak]

Ever heard of Famous Amos chocolate chip chookies?  There is a Captain Amos on stock ROM/ROT muds in the area called Pirate Ship, and the list can go on where the names come from.

Now I feel bad, because one of the Amos character's, well, the player was really really good and I enjoyed playing with him, and we're just picking the name apart. Personally, the way I saw it in game (Again making no connection IRL) I pronounced it Ahmos, as opposed to Eymos for Tori Amos, or Amuss for Famous Amos.

[creeper386]

My point is. I see in NO way that Amos is somehow not suited for the game. I also see it pronounced Amos, but it's not a common name or word or anything, even if people have it as a name in real life. IMO a famous persons name if it's less common is alot better of then a commonly used name or word. Like Amos compared to Fred. Fred I can see not really fitting much within Zalanthas. Amos on the other hand, I don't see how it so just ruined your gaming experience to see it in the game.


Makes little sense. It's not a common word, nor is it widely known, and it works for a name. MYSELF, and say no matter what the damn history was on "Panbot" that'd effect my playing on the game, Amos wouldn't. I'd spend my whole time thinking, why the fuck is this gay name Panbot in the mud, then I'd go on to whatever the reason, why the hell did the Imms pass it.

Creeper

[Rindan]

I think Amos is a fine name.  In fact, there is a running joke in game about how everyone is named Amos.  Amos is an unusual name (at least it is here in the states).  So what if it is common in game?  In fact, I personally see nothing wrong with having a character named after the great Kadian merchant Amos, or the great Kuraci merchant Dohlmer (or however the hell you spell it).  Plenty of people are named after saints in the real world.  Why not intentionally steal others names because your parents named you in some one else's honor?

[Angela Christine]

The father was yelling at the mother and shaking a pan he was cooking in, the mother was breast feeding and tending to some plants, this is where he got his name, the father dropped the Pan, and the mother looked to it and said what about Pan?  And the father said sounds alright, but I think you should be involved as well, and so she said well he is going to study Botany so lets call him Panbot..  

Too bad it was a pan, rather than pot.  If it had been a pot they could have named him Potany.  

AC

[Delerak]

They are PC's names, used by PC's, I hate seeing PC's being dumped into one category and NPCs dumped into another.  NPCs and PCs are the same, its just that WE play the PCs, you can't just throw NPC's out the window, take a look at the NPCs names, Vennant, Tarkon, I mean come on the staff uses names like these as a punch line for us, I don't think you'd ever seen an NPC amos.

[Angela Christine]

Would there be a sirihish word for botany?

Sure there would, probably be several words for it, just like in real life.  Botany is the study of plants, there is nothing especially modern about the study of plants.  Herbalism would likely be a more commonly used synonym, but there is nothing really wrong with botany.  A modern botanist might be offended by being called a herbalist, if he considered botany to be a science and herbalism to be loony, but the meaning of the words is similar enough to be used interchangably in the game.  Depending on what she was doing with the plants she might also have been a gardener, farmer, breeder or florist.  Botany has a modern, scientific flavor, and it implies the sort of scholarly study that is rare on Zalanthas, but it isn't an awful word.

Someone who does medical work might be called a doctor, a physician, a healer, an herbalist, a wisewoman, a pill pusher, a medic, a sawbones, or even a butcher ICly, depending on their situation.  On the other hand claiming to be a cardiologist or neurosurgeon would probably be unacceptable.    It can be tricky to know where to draw the line.

AC

[Angela Christine]

They are PC's names, used by PC's, I hate seeing PC's being dumped into one category and NPCs dumped into another.  NPCs and PCs are the same, its just that WE play the PCs, you can't just throw NPC's out the window, take a look at the NPCs names, Vennant, Tarkon, I mean come on the staff uses names like these as a punch line for us, I don't think you'd ever seen an NPC amos.

Yes I have, at least I think I have.  Back when there was only one Amos I used to try to contact him and often got a half-elven outrider instead of the PC I wanted.  I believe this outrider is an NPC.

AC

[creeper386]

Okay... I don't know what Delerak's new arguement about PCs and NPCs is about. Up till there he had pretty well founded arguements.

Khuzdund and Phata both names I've used for characters. Don't think there are NPCs named that, but there could be. Does everyones PC name have to also have an NPC equivelant? I don't think so. I don't see where that PC, NPC jab came up. I didn't read anyone saying that PCs can be named anything and NPCs can only be named under other circumstances.

And, if a PC with a name that was excepted ended up being famous, I can see other PCs or NPCs coming up with that name. Who knows... I see no arguements here what so ever to why the name Amos is such a bad name. I also can't remember why this post was started. SHRUG. I'll probably look later.

Well, what else was I going to say. Just a second. Got to look at the previous posts again.

Oh yeah... See, Potany I think would be a good name. Long as I didn't hear how it came acrossed, botany just doesn't fit the world, herbalism yes, botany, no(They're gardners not botanists). Just like I don't think someone running around saying they are Doctor Scrit or something. Physician is also pushing it I think for IG terms. I think a healer is alot better. Heck, tailor would probably work too. Sewing clothing is good practice for stitching folk up.

Creeper

[Delerak]

All i'm saying is just because a pc was famous to other PCs doesnt mean he was truly famous icly.  Tektolnes is famous, Amos the kadian merchant wasn't and is not famous.

[Eternal]

AC's right about that outrider named Amos.

[Delerak]

Whatever, I'm going to Publix to buy some Famous Amos cookies, I hope you all have a happy new year.

[Angela Christine]

Whatever, I'm going to Publix to buy some Famous Amos cookies, I hope you all have a happy new year.

I've never had Famous Amos cookies, do they still make them?  I remember them being mentioned on some TV show, I think it was Taxi, a looong time ago.  I think they even had Famous Amos make a guest appearance.  Hmm.  I guess they must still make them, or else you'd be buying really old cookies.

Anyway, one of the problems I've had is that I prefer short names, like 3 or 4 letters.  Why?  Because they seem more commoner-ish than long elaborate names to me.  (Besides, it's easier for other people to remember the correct spelling with a short name).  It's hard to find a short name that sounds like a name, yet doesn't sound like an existing RL name or word.  Suppose you want a short, sharp name so you decide to that your consenants will be T and K:

Tak - sounds like Tack
Tek - Taken.  sounds like Tech.
Tik - Tick.
Tok - Talk, or Tick-tock (the sound a clock makes).
Tuk - Tuck and cover
Tyk - sounds like Tyke or Tick.
Kat - Cat
Ket - ?
Kit - Kit is already a word
Kot - sounds like Caught.
Kut - Cut
Kyt - sounds like Kit or Kite, looks funny.

Out of the 12 possibilities, the only one that seems ok to me is Ket.  If I wanted one of the other 11 I'd probably have to claim that my full name was Tikita or Takiandra, but that I prefered to use the short form.  Getting a name with look and feel I want, but that doesn't look or sound like an existing word, can be tough.  It's not impossible, but I can definately sympathize with people that end up choosing imperfect names.  

AC

[Sandferret]

I don't think such votes should go directly into awarding any karma or other points.

I would, however, like to hear, if someone liked what I did. It could be encouraging to get some positive feedback sometime, without having to risk letting people know who I play.

It would also give the chance to send overall thanks to those who continue to be suportive, day after day.

Maybe it is just my problem, feeling pretty much useless to the game, unable to achieve anything, but I would thrive on hearing 'it was fun playing with you' on occasion.

[krelin]

I'm inclined to agree with Sandferret on this.  Even if it was just a simple way of sending a fellow character a "comment" type e-mail.  "Hey, really dug your description," or "Man!  It was so cool being tortured by you the other night...  really brutal and unecessary.  Thanks!" that sort of thing.

In an RP-intensive environment like Arm, there's nothing more rewarding than a positive comment on your RP.  Would be nice to have an anonymous avenue for this.

[Keeper]

Oh, thank God, someone changed the subject.