Bolts, Arrows and knives, oh my!

[Rhyden]

Alright. I'm a little peed off and have been for a little while now.

Knives. The ones you throw. If you happen to have the skill? They're really useful. Why are they so useful? Because they never break.  :wink:

Bolts. Well, nobody really uses crossbows much in the game because they're too expensive and bows and arrows are cheaper, plus bolts are much the same as arrows, so I'll explain this in the arrow paragraph.

ARROWS: Useful? Yup. Expensive? Yup. With the archery skill of course. Now, are arrows in Armageddon realistic? My opinion: absolutely not. Why? They're -way- too fragile.

I don't know what the ratio is of an arrow hitting and breaking or an arrow missing and breaking, but it's bad. I think about less than half of arrows shot with a bow are destroyed. Hitting the soft sands on a miss, some sandstone, grass, road, whatever. Do knives ever break? Nope, never actually.

So what's up with this? I just so happen to own a bow with arrows and archery happens to be a pastime of mine IRL. This bow would probably be worth about a million sids if it were in Zalanthas because of their brass-headed arrows and the bow is fibberglass (I think). Now, I have five arrows in total. I've shot each arrow probably over five-hundred times each and I still have all five of my arrows, chipped a bit, but still shootable.

Now, my conflict is that brand new arrows in Zalanthas sometimes break on their first impact! Why does this happen? Because if the arrows aren't strong enough to withstand the impact of soft sand, silt, dust, bouncing off a rock, road, or whatever...then the arrow wouldn't be sturdy enough to shoot in the first place!

So, does anybody have similar thoughts?

[Bestatte]

As you improve with archery, you'll lose less arrows.

In addition, some critters are set up differently than others - and for some reason, you might miss them every single time, and never find a single arrow when you go to retrieve them. In the case I knew about, it was an error in the critter's code, and the error was corrected. If you're experiencing the same thing and feel that the critter you're "missing" shouldn't magickally lose your arrows, I would recommend e-mailing mud and bugging it.

[Larrath]

Arrows are fired a lot more powerfully than a weapon could possibly be thrown, with the arguable exception of a half-giant throwing a basketball-sized rock.  (Or a gith skull).

Now, you'll probably want to take into consideration the materials and technologies involved.  What wood are these arrows made of?  What heads do they have?  How well is that head connected to the shaft?
Real-world arrowheads will probably be secured using metal bolts, clamps, or some ultra-strong glue.  Zalanthas doesn't really have any of these.

Also, Salarr is a great supplier of arrows, but they don't go through an entire log in search of that one perfect arrowshaft and throw away everything else.  They're going to use every last bit, just like everyone else.  I've used archery and, well, it's a fairly powerful skill.  I think that making the arrows limited like that is a good way to keep it a little more in check.

[Rhyden]

As you improve with archery, you'll lose less arrows.

That's good, but with less skill, comes less powerful, less accurate shots. And the chances of those arrows being destroyed probably would be less as well.

Although Larrath has a very good, unarguable point.  :wink:

[Rhyden]

Although, one must consider that the missing target for an arrow will most likely be soft/hard sand/silt since that is what Zalanthian ground is mainly composed of. Would these fragile arrows still break hitting through sand? Well, that would have to be pretty thick and dense sand, believe you me.

[Anonymous]

Slings are very cheap, their ammunition is -extremely- cheap (not to mention you can 'forage' for the ammunition). Although the damage caused by slings is quite disappointing, it would seem to be a good way to practice archery.

Sa'alam,

Dirr

[Rhyden]

Good point, Dirr.

I think it was Larrath that pointed out the materials for the arrows. Bone-wood for the shafts. Flint/agate/quartz/obsidian for the arrowhead. Well, if I'm not mistaken, these are the exact same materials most of the weapons in Zalanthas are made of, so why don't they break so easily. They probably contact other solids hundreds of times.

One may say that arrows are more fragile. Well, they're not, really. When an arrow is shot, the arrowhead is meant to take most of the weight of the blow. And when that arrowhead is sharpened, the weight taken is even less. I'll still say that too many arrows break. Starting off: weak shots, if the shaft hits the target, or not at all, the arrow still probably won't break. Experienced archer: very powerful shots, very accurate, the arrowhead will support most of the weight of the blow and if that arrow can be taken back out of the target, it will probably still be used.

[Xamminy]

An arrow missing its target could hit a rock.  Have you ever seen a real dessert?  It doesn't look like sand in every direction as far as the eye can see everywhere.  There are rocks.  Even then, some of that sand is so hard-packed that it may as well be rock.  Also, even if the sand was soft, the sand could wash over your arrow burying it after it hits the ground.

Losing an arrow is a fact of life.  Be grateful that it is possible to get any of them back, I've played games (both tabletop and mud) that when an arrow is shot, you're never getting it back.

[Larrath]

Most regular weapons used are heavier and a lot thicker, and they also don't reach speeds quite as fast as an arrow.

Also, don't forget that stone can't always be brought to a perfect shape, and it might also have internal weakness that's hard to notice.

[Anonymous]

You must also account for -lost- arrows. For instance, an inexperienced archer will often overshoot/undershoot. Thus, the overshot arrows will fly away into the distance (perhaps too far to track them down), while the undershot arrows will occasionally break. Also, a wooden or bone shaft of an arrow is quite thin in comparison to the overall thickness of any other wooden/bone weapon. Weapons do break on occasion, especially in the hands of the very powerful.

Sa'alam,

Dirr

[Anonymous]

Having lost something in the realm of a bazillion of my HPs from a certain projectile in the hands of a certain expert, I think it's fine the way it is.

I wouldn't have felt that way until I lost said bazillion HPs.