Newbie Invasion

[sarahjc]

Anyone notice a lot of new players coming in recently? I feel like I have met more in the past month than normal. And I don't think it's a bad thing. I was just wondering if anyone else noticed the same. Is it our #5 status on TMS? Is it the same Newbie who keeps dying and coming back as someone new? Am I just crazy??

Also this is to the new players on the board. I have seen a few newbies that have clearly read the doc's before starting and a few that haven't. How much of the documentation did you read before you started? And what was the one thing you found hardest when you began.

I myself read almost everything the site. But I never played a Mud and I am anal like that. The one thing I can remember having trouble with was the emote system.  I was not familiar with the ~ : @ ^ % Emote Pemote ! #  ( ) system. Some things need quotes, some don't. It took me about a good 2 months to get the swing of things and about a year to start to use all those correctly and I still mess up more often than I really should.

So, thoughts, comments?

[My 2 sids]

It does seem like there are lots of new people joining and like you Sarahjc, I'm excited.  I also had never played a mud before, so had no idea what to expect.  So even reading over the documentation, I still really couldn't understand what to expect.  What actually got me into the setting, was reading over the story and log docs! The stories gave me an overall mindset of the game and logs showed me what to expect as I read.  

We have lot of documentation.  Like Sarahjc, it was very hard for me to get a hold of @,#!^ etc.  I don't know how others feel, but I'd rather have PCs that may not realize how to sit at table 4, but understand who is a noble.  I'd love to see new players pay close attention to the setting and structure of Zanathas and practice with the other stuff.

[Tamarin]

I have noticed there are a lot of newbies, and that doesn't bother me.  What DOES bother me is that a lot of them seem to be complaining and asking for changes to the code, as well as insiting on opinions that have no foundation in experience.  Please, for the love of krath before you decide to make an opinion about the game public, PLAY THE GAME FOR A FEW YEARS.

Thank you.

[killa]

nice more people to choose from  :twisted:

muhahahahahaha

[Tamarin]

killa



Joined: 01 Nov 2004

Indeed.

[sarahjc]

I don't think any certain period of time gives you the superiority to quell another person's ideas.. Often what may stem from a newbie's "Idea" on the boards can lead to that Newbies better understanding of the game, the player base and the concepts of how things are.

Joe newbie saying something like, "I hate it when people yell at me for OOC usage during the game. There really should be an OOC channel. And so what if I use OOC a lot, isn't that what it's there for?"

So now we all will jump on Joe Newbie with comments and snickers, when it is clear that Joe has not read the docs on OOC usage yet and that it should be used sparingly.

But some people will explain to Joe the reasons why OOC is not Ok all the time in game, point a link to the documentation, and Joe will learn something new.

Joe Newbie may also take the documentation too seriously and feel the need to freak out about certain things cause the Doc's say so.

Well, the doc's are guidelines not stone hard immovable facts and we all debate here on those all the time as well. Joe newbie will learn about that..

I will pick on Sjaninal again, as an example cause he is a good one. Sj often comes on with an idea.. states a case for it and then either learns something about the game mechanics/player opinion or is supported in his idea. Either way, he is -learning- something about the game and the playerbase and what is expected from his Rp.  Sjanimal will one day be a very knowledgeable player and be able to help others because of all the topics he has started and learned from. He already gives some good responses to questions.

That doesn't mean that I like you, Sjanimal.  :wink:

My thought on your comment Tamarin is, that unless you are going to be helpful to Joe newbie, don't throw down so hard on him. He is learning.

[killa]

killa



Joined: 01 Nov 2004

Indeed.

hey i been out a while my other account was made in 2002 named adrien but i cant log on to it for some reason

[Bestatte]

Newbies are fun. And they taste good with sliced ginka fruits.

I mean uh....

I've encountered a few people who seem like genuine noobs to the game lately. Not too many, but my PC hasn't been hanging out in the noob-gen rooms much lately.

Some seem to be really eager to get the hang of the RP and syntax thing. Some don't. Some pretend to be eager, but you can just tell that all they really want is for you to give them equipment and train them so they can kill mobs and get loot.

One thing I have noticed, is that a lot of these new players use "say" or the apostrophe to talk. Whether it's because they're not used to tells, or if the game they came used the "tell" command as an ooc channel, or if they just simply didn't read the docs, it seems to be a current trend.

I'd like to say for all those new players who are doing this: Please try to remember to use "tell" when you're standing, and "talk" when you're at a coded table. Here's why:

When you just plain "say" something, if there are more than one PC in the room, we won't necessarily know which of us you are talking to. In addition, it's roleplayed, that people who are "saying" rather than "telling" are talking to no one in particular, OR to everyone in the room.

If a templar sits there, and you say "Hey where can I get some armor?" the templar might take offense, because you didn't have the manners to approach him first and ask permission to speak to him before blurting out your question. And - you might not even be meaning to be addressing him. But he has no way of knowing that, because you weren't talking to anyone specific.

Another thing - is to try and pay attention to your hps. If you are down more than a few, people will see that you are bleeding. You should RP some sort of injury, or pain, or discomfort (depending on what caused your HPs to drop - sometimes it isn't getting hit, sometimes it's just being really thirsty). Walking around town "bleeding profusely" and not behaving like someone who is *seriously* injured or otherwise incapacitated detracts from the RP of everyone who encounters him.

Those are really the two most obvious things I wanted to point out to any new players who are reading this thread. There are so many subtle and not so subtle ways you can interact with the game, but those you can easily find out on your own through playing and/or reading various documentation on the website and helpfiles.

If I come across your character, and I can see that you are trying to get the hang of it but need a nudge in the right direction, I'll be more than happy to give you a hand. I know there are many others who will do the same. Until then, welcome to Armageddon, and may your death be interesting.

[ashyom]

Good observations, everyone.
I want to point out that not all muds have 'tell' command.  The ones I played prior to coming to Arm didn't.  Or any of those darned @#^&*() usages.  Most muds have just a fraction of what Arm does.  Anyways!

We Staff too have noticed an influx of new players - I think there were at least 15 in app queue at one point last Friday.  It looks like most of the recent new players came from TMS and TMC, although a few said current players told them about this mud.  Kudos!

If you want to keep them coming, vote, and submit reviews.  And keep telling your friends.
-Ashyom

[SewerRat_inTheOpen]

Well, I'm a newbie, but I guess things are pretty fast on the pick up after a few characters. I believe I'm getting most of it, except getting in character all the time, I do silly things [twinking] like mass crafting or mass searching at times. i'm sure the imms can attain to that if they see me playing. But I try!!!  

And my reply to the first post is I think it's all the same newbies dying and coming back with another. i did 3-4 within a week, before slowing down.

I never really noticed, but i thought Sj seems rather non newbie to me. He have some good ideas, even if they aren't all widely accepted.

[John]

But I try!!!

And in my opinion that's all that matters If you have any ideas on how to improve the mud for newbies (including the website) you should also post them up

[gofmk]

I have noticed there are a lot of newbies, and that doesn't bother me.  What DOES bother me is that a lot of them seem to be complaining and asking for changes to the code, as well as insiting on opinions that have no foundation in experience.  Please, for the love of krath before you decide to make an opinion about the game public, PLAY THE GAME FOR A FEW YEARS.

Thank you.

I'm guessing if newbies weren't allowed to have ideas as well, that they wouldn't be allowed to post on the GDB. I think all ideas are worth hearing and discussing, even if the person has played for less than three months. And we've seen it time and time again - if an idea isn't worth the discussion, it's shot down all quick like... a little discussion never hurt anything. The Imms don't fly off the handle and do what every Joe Schmoe says. :wink:

[Fnord]

Welcome all newbies! As this Mud is not particularly newbie friendly once you're in the game playing, my 2c is:

1) Read, read, read the documentation.

2) Combine that with locating a helper or two.

3) Don't be afraid of dying a few times as you ramp up.

4) Ignore the jerks like me on the GDB.

Trust us, it's a great world once you get the hang of it. Good luck, and I can't wait to kill you and take your boots.

[killa]

Welcome all newbies! As this Mud is not particularly newbie friendly once you're in the game playing, my 2c is:

1) Read, read, read the documentation.

2) Combine that with locating a helper or two.

3) Don't be afraid of dying a few times as you ramp up.

4) Ignore the jerks like me on the GDB.

Trust us, it's a great world once you get the hang of it. Good luck, and I can't wait to kill you and take your boots.

notice how he said trust us which includes him self and then metion i cant wait to kill you. lol

[Marauder Moe]

I'd like to reenforce (for newbies and oldbies alike) the idea that a lot can be learned when a proposed idea is rejected.  I once proposed an system to let players hang around a bit as a ghost after their death to gain a little closure on lost characters.  What I learned as it was rejected by most of the community and staff is that such a thing would OOCly affect how people RP.  They'd be more likely (and unrealistically) to sacrifice their characters knowing that they have a chance to see what happens.  I learned that (like in RL) you should focus on how a character lives, not how s/he dies.

So, keep an open mind, eager newbies.  Even if you're 100% convinced that your idea is a good one (I was), you can still come out better (instead of bitter) for it if proven wrong.

[Dentrik]

I've read the documentation back and forth but I retain worded information like water through a collander.  I am a hands on type and learned the hard way.  Am still learning, rather, because I make a few mistakes every play session and I haven't caught more expert arts of roleplaying, I'm sure.  I'm far in enough to cringe when I see someone else make a mistake  :wink:

But not enough to claim I'm any good.  I am playing my third or fourth character right now.

[killa]

I've read the documentation back and forth but I retain worded information like water through a collander.  I am a hands on type and learned the hard way.  Am still learning, rather, because I make a few mistakes every play session and I haven't caught more expert arts of roleplaying, I'm sure.  I'm far in enough to cringe when I see someone else make a mistake  :wink:

But not enough to claim I'm any good.  I am playing my third or fourth character right now.

cool bah from what u said i think your doing well.  Im on my 70th character and i still make mistakeswe all do
damn i got to 50 in 5 months

[Cenghiz]

It's my 30th character and second year... Still I managed to tease the imms badly just a few days ago .

[Calion]

I am one of the newbies you speak of, and I am reading all the documentation I can find. It's not enough.

I think the introductory information on the website needs to be a lot more complete. I haven't died yet in my first week or so, but there was a whale of a lot I didn't know that I wish I had. I can't think of details right now (wish I'd kept notes), but I'll think about it if anyone's interested.

I also have found a lot of useful pages on the website that don't seem to be linked to from anywhere. I've taken to Googling the site to find out what I need. Again, I'd have to do some looking to tell you what those are.

The walkthrough, in particular, needs lots of work. It says WHAT to do, but nothing about HOW to do it. Go buy equipment, it says. Great! Where?? This shouldn't be an IG secret; if you've followed the guidelines, your first character is probably a lifelong resident of Allanak, and knows where the important stuff is. So give directions in the walkthrough on how to get to the equipment dealers, grocer, etc.

There also needs to be more accessable information on religion/beliefs/slang. I had to dig hard to find out who the hell Whira was, even though she was referenced in several room descriptions like I'd know who she was.

As for poor roleplaying of being seriously wounded, I have to plead guilty as charged. I'm used to other MUDs, and I really didn't know that I was "bleeding profusely" (until somebody told me) or I would have roleplayed it better. (I did find it amusing that dehydration caused me to bleed profusely ) There HAS to be a way for players to see what others see when they look at your character, or hear a tell, or see a look. Emote works fine in this way, thank goodness, but, well, for instance, I use "look tall briefly as ~tall walk into the room." a lot. Does that work, or does it look stupid? I have no idea, and I don't want to break character to ask someone.

More gripes: There's no "commands" command. There really really really has to be. I don't even know what social commands are available, and have no idea how to find out. "Help social" returns nothing.

Lastly: I'm sure that I'm just naive and this idea will be vehemently shot down, but everywhere you look you find people or docs or helpfiles saying, over and over, "Newbies join the Byn." Great! Wonderful. Grand idea. There's only one problem: It's impossible. There are no non-comatose Byn on. Ever. Well, in about 4 days of looking for several hours a day. It's getting tiring. I think that by the time I find a Byn, I will have eaten the money I need to get in!

There are plenty of Byn in the taverns: One sergeant in the Bard's Barrel, and THREE sergeants at the Gaj! But they're all non-responsive NPCs. If joining the Byn is so important for new players, why don't we just set up one of these NPCs to be responsive to a request about "Byn," to at least START you on the process of joining. Perhaps he can say "Go talk to X person at the gates of the Byn, and tell them <name> sent you."

I know you don't want just anyone joining, but perhaps this could be the application process, and an email could be sent to an IMM and/or some clan members, and their application could be considered, perhaps with an IG interview time set up through email or mudmail or something. SOMETHING so that newbies don't feel like this MUD is dead (which it's not; there's more people on it than Sloth, but I guess it's so big it FEELS dead sometimes).

Anyway, that's my 2 ceramic.

Calion

[Xamminy]

Calion, I understand your frustration, really.

However, the 'join the Byn' sentiment is because it is a good way to learn certain aspects of the game, if there are other players in the Byn to learn from.  If the only Bynners around are NPCs, you're not going to learn much from them.

My suggestion is to find another organization that looks like it has people but could still use you for whatever you do.  Get a job with them and learn what to do from the more experienced players, and what not to do from the mistakes of the other newbies and yourself in the process as well.

[ashyom]

These are great feedbacks, Calion!  I'll be sharing them with the staff, to see if we can't help iron out some wrinkles.

Here are some initial responses to a couple of your points:
Unlinked pages - If you could send the mud - or me, either is fine - the urls to the unlinked webpages that you found, that'd be terrific.

Directions - I agree that you probably would know what is where, but there are different starting locations.  Help map has a rough outline of what's where in Allanak, and Help Northlands has one as well, for Tuluk.  Just an FYI.

There is an emote emulator, but the link appears to be broken for me (is that the case for anyone else?).  This is a nifty little webpage that helps you learn about different emotes and how they look.  It's found here: http://www.armageddon.org/intro/utilities.html

All the rest of your points are valid, and we'd be happy to get your feedbacks on the newbie start information.  Adding or removing links and relevant information might help make it a bit more intuitive for new players.  As an aside, I'm not sure what's up with the Byn these days.  I think it's slow in certain locations; feel free to email me with your account and character information, and I'll talk to the Byn staffer to see what we can do for you and any other Byn-wannabes.
Trust this helps
Ashyom
ashyom@armageddon.org

[joyofdiscord]

I use "look tall briefly as ~tall walk into the room." a lot. Does that work, or does it look stupid? I have no idea, and I don't want to break character to ask someone.

One of the instances where the emote system is imperfect is when trying to put a conjugated verb on someone else in the room.  In this case, the tall man will see:

The calion-like man looks at you briefly as you walk into the room.  
PERFECT

Other people in the room will see:
The calion-like man looks at the tall man briefly as the tall man walk into the room.

Notice that walk is now conjugated incorrectly.  There is no way to fix this, apart from the addition of a very unwieldy sort of function.  Typically I guess the rule of thumb is to make the emote correct for as many people as possible.  If there were many other people in the room, I would probably use "walks".  Only the person being looked at would see it incorrectly, and he will understand.  If the tall man were the only other PC in the room (which I was aware of...), I would probably use "walk".  Invis/hidden PC's and IMMS would see "the tall man walk", but I'd assume they'd understand.

Also, in the second example, using the tilde in that sentence means the tall man's sdesc shows up twice.  It doesn't look too bad, but to reduce redundancy, you might use #tall, which will substitute he/she.  Then third parties will see (using "walks):

The calion-like man looks at the tall man briefly as he walks into the room.

Out of context there is some ambiguity if both are male: Is Calion or the tall man walking into the room?  For those observing the situation, there should be no real confusion.

You should keep in mind, THERE IS NO COMMA BUILT INTO THE LOOK EMOTE.  This is more important than it sounds:  If you do "look elf sneering in disgust", the elf will see "The calion-like man looks at you sneering in disgust", which makes it look like HE is sneering in disgust, forcing an action on him.  I think you might be able to sneak a comma in there with "look elf, sneering in disgust", as odd as that sounds.  I'm not sure, though.  I'll let someone who knows more than me confirm it or not.  With no-comma look emotes, your friends are adverbs (so-and-so looks at you briefly, etc), conjunctions (so-and-so looks at you and smiles, so-and-so looks at you as his gaze wanders over the crowd), or prepositions (so-and-so looks at you with a sneer).

It sounds pretty complicated, but it isn't a great big deal.  I see people, usually at least one or two in every decent play-session, who are obviously experienced players, but still trip over some of these things.

[Calion]

I use "look tall briefly as ~tall walk into the room." a lot. Does that work, or does it look stupid?

Other people in the room will see:
The calion-like man looks at the tall man briefly as the tall man walk into the room.

Notice that walk is now conjugated incorrectly.  There is no way to fix this, apart from the addition of a very unwieldy sort of function.

This seems quite easy to fix. Add an function. Like so:Emote waves happily as ~tall walk into the room.

Target will see: Calion waves happily as you walk into the room.
Others will see: Calion waves happily as the tall man walks into the room.

This will work on almost any verb. On the few it doesn't (like cry), a simple substitution dictionary should take care of it.

Also, in the second example, using the tilde in that sentence means the tall man's sdesc shows up twice.  It doesn't look too bad, but to reduce redundancy, you might use #tall, which will substitute he/she.  Then third parties will see (using "walks):

The calion-like man looks at the tall man briefly as he walks into the room.

Thanks! That's just the sort of thing I was worried about. I'll fix my alias rightaway.

--
Calion

[Calion]

These are great feedbacks, Calion!  I'll be sharing them with the staff, to see if we can't help iron out some wrinkles.

Thanks. That encourages me to come up with more.

Directions - I agree that you probably would know what is where, but there are different starting locations.  Help map has a rough outline of what's where in Allanak, and Help Northlands has one as well, for Tuluk.  Just an FYI.

But the walkthrough is designed for new players, and new players are strongly encouraged to start in Allanak. So why not just include directions for 'Nak?

Besides, the walkthrough says

In the second document, a direct walkthrough of the three main starting locations  will show you where water can be attained.

Where is this second document?

There is an emote emulator, but the link appears to be broken for me (is that the case for anyone else?).  This is a nifty little webpage that helps you learn about different emotes and how they look.  It's found here: http://www.armageddon.org/intro/utilities.html

This would be great, except it seems that it's not there anymore.

And even if it were, useful as that would be, it wouldn't fix what I consider to be the biggest problem: You can't see your own code-generated ldesc. Suggestion: in Score, ALWAYS show the character's ldesc, even if it's code-generated. That would pretty much fix the problem.

Thanks for your help!

--
Calion

[jhunter]

But the walkthrough is designed for new players, and new players are strongly encouraged to start in Allanak. So why not just include directions for 'Nak?

Well, I personally think it's better that you find out in game yourself. Here's why:

1) Walking around the city looking will help you get to know it better.

2) Asking other pcs where to find such places gives you an opportunity to get involved with others from the start and can actually provide some entertaining roleplay.

3) It gives you more inclination to be self-motivated to find these things out ICly and will most likely result in you being more self-motivated in the future. Self-motivated people seem to add alot more to the game as far as interaction and RP go, IMO.