Beating the War Drums/Need for CrimCode Revision

[Anonymous]

Today an IMM told me that there was not a huge need to revise the CRIM code.  I for one would like to cheerfully step up on the soap box and beging banging some pots and pans together.  

Everyone has lost character's to spazes in the Crim Code who's played long enough.  This is very frustrating.  The last time that this happened to me, I made a vow to myself that I would work tirelessly to fix the Crim Code at every available opportunity.

And it seems that some people don't even think the Crim Code is a big concern.  I would like to drum up some more support for fixing the Crim Code.

Before anyone spits on me for playing a criminal, try to keep in mind that bugs in the crim code affect law abiding citizens the most.  For example:

-- The current crim code does not offer special support to coded house guards trying to enforce House policy

-- any coded PC city guard can attack you, and hitting the guard back (a coded reflex which happens no matter what you do) sets YOU to being crim flagged, even if this is not the intention of the guards and they just wanted to smack you around a little.

-- carrying a body into a town, selling certain items, and any number of legal activities will get you crim flagged

-- If someone steals from you, and you punch them, YOU go to jail.  

I'm sure that some of you think that I am missing the strengths of leaving the current Crim  code in place, including

-- the current system does a pretty good job of discouraging random noob stupidity
-- the code is allegedly pretty hard to modify

However,

-- even though the code may be hard to modify, I have the utmost faith that it can be done.  
--  the current system is fairly cut and dry and operates from a easily discernable system of learnable rules.  This encourages exploitation of these rules.  Most people exploit this system to commit crimes, to avoid criminals, or to avoid implication or frame implication for crimes.  All of us do this.  If any of us ignored the Crim Code and just "did what your character would naturally do" for a few hours our charcters would end up dead or in jail.  
-- there are a lot of cool roles that many of us would like to play but really can't because of lack of coded support.  Example:  mugger.  Mugging people is very hard from the current system.  Having coded muggers around would increase the need for House Guards and would give somebody for the town guards to chase.  Although most people are afriad of police brutality, they ought to fear criminals slightly more than they fear the police.  The sad truth is that the odds of being faced with violent crime is annoyingly low for your average player.

Oh yeah, and my current character is not every a criminal.  Fixing the Crim code would encourage myself and other people to play "gutter criminals" and would contribute to the atmoshpere of Zalanthas as a "harsh, desert world."

[sjanimal]

- that was me logged out

[jhunter]

I think the crim code is fine. Only once been killed due to the crim code...and it was realistic enough considering the situation.

[Gaare]

That's really painful to lose a character to crime code (and I had a couple of hard encounters when I was a total newbie), but I do believe there is a real fact. If you are doing something dangerous, then you must be stand its results. I will go on with the examples above.

The current crim code does not offer special support to coded house guards trying to enforce House policy

House guards are not law enforcers so crime is crime for the eyes of the authority.

any coded PC city guard can attack you, and hitting the guard back sets YOU to being crim flagged

If a soldier attacks you, what the other ones should do? Try to understand what's going on..

carrying a body into a town, selling certain items, and any number of legal activities will get you crim flagged.

You are doing a suspicious business and we, ARM players, know guards are not friendly and has no understanding of human rights. Also we have a beautiful flag called "nosave" for that kind of situations.


I would like to see a better crime code, like surrendering after the guards begin to hit you, or maybe guards may automatically subdue despite to your skills. BUT these topics were discussed many times and I do believe we really do not need neither a big nor an urgent change in crime code.

[Dracul]

Gaare hit the points.

Now certainly I won't argue against additions to the crim code. Moreso extra nosave flags. But the crimcode itself is fine.

Militia...you don't fuck with. Nosave...if you ever suspect you'll get crimmed. Thats just how it works.

Elves...heh.

alias t nosave on

[Zharal]

I think the crime code works just fine.  I don't really understand why folks complain so much about it, it's like you want to be given a steal for free card or something..  I've played alot of criminal types and have done some seriously stupid things that have landed me dead or in the slammer.
But I have also done some serious things that have not.  Yes the code is harsh but sands, it's a harsh world out there.  You have spice in Nak you die, you steal from a Noble you die, you run from the law and you die.  It seems perty cut and dry to me.  I guess you just have to put some time in the game to understand, it's not the crime code thats burns you, it's you that burns you.  If you want to be a criminal take your time, the famous cat-burglar did not become the best at what he or she does over night, its a life long commitment.  Comon thugs and thieves, well there common and usally used to set examples to keep the masses in there place.  As for the crime code, hell, if you dont want to get tossed in the can or beaten bloody by the militia dont break the laws

[Rhyden]

I agree here. I think there are a few minor and major problems with the crim code. My main point is that to my understanding, there are rooms where you will be crimflagged for illegal events and rooms where you will not. Now, it may say in the room description that this is a hustling bustling road full of commoners scurring about, or it could be a dark, dank alleyway with only maggots and rats crawling around the rocky floors. Whichever it is, I think the room thing is a bad idea. There are of course VNPC commoners in cities, but are there any VNPC soldiers? If there is, there should'nt be as the ones who are NPC's are more than enough...SO:

(Still more  :roll: )

Now that all that's explained, here's the deal: When one is in a crimflag room and no soldiers are around, why is it that you are crimflagged? Sure, a commoner -might- go up to a half-giant soldier, pulling on his tabard screeching with a pointed finger and a tremble in their lips: "Guard, that man just stole that other man's bag! Oh, please do something!" And the HG will quickly nod his head not knowing what else to do and contact (somehow) every single other guardian in the city of the exact description of the accused and what they're wearing. Now, tell me, is this realistic? Is it even accurate? Maybe I'm ranting, but if this doesn't sound right, please somebody tell me how the crimflag system works. Not codedly, but RPingly. Thanks.

(Hope you're not bored yet  :shock: )

So, here's what I think should be done: Since there is a large amount of NPC soldiers in cities (A+T), I think when somebody commits a crime within their viewing distace (three squares or less away, n, e, w, or s) and is visible (no obstacles in the way) THEN, you are crimflagged and that soldier will come-a-runnin' after the accused character, possibly notifying a few other soldiers on the way there.

Could this work? Is it realistic? Would the code support such a thing? You tell me. I'm open for anything:

[Xamminy]

Just as there are virtual commoners, there are virtual soldiers in every city.  Don't discount them, Rhyden.

[moab]

The first change I think should be made (and perhaps the only) is to have the guards individually become aware of the fact that a particular PC is wanted rather than everyone knowing instantly.

Right now, it's as if every soldier is a master of the way and can communicate everything about the criminal perfectly to his peers - all of them - instantly.

I would rather see maybe an expanding ring effect or some type of pyramid where by one, then another, then three more then eight more know about the status of a particular PC over the course of some amount of time > 0.  

Forgetting about the PC's wanted status should work the same way.

That change alone would be quite interesting.

Coding some way of bribing the guards would also prove interesting.

[Ktavialt]

Today an IMM told me that there was not a huge need to revise the CRIM code.  I for one would like to cheerfully step up on the soap box and beging banging some pots and pans together.

I'm with you on this. Crim code has a problem to it. Difficult problem to
fix though. Lots of facets to it, but here's my suggestion on dealing with
people already crimflagged. This is just an example of what I'd do:

(1) Guards are, by default, on standby. When on standby, they do not
actively look for criminals. By default, they don't even look for criminals,
and will only attack one (in this mode) if they see an uncloaked/unveiled/
/not invisible/un-everyothercovering criminal in the room or the one next
to them.

(2) Each guard has a % chance of looking at each passing PC (with the
exception of the city gates), which is reduced even further if the PC is
sneaking and perhaps maybe another thievery skill of blending in can
be considered.

(3) If a criminal is spotted this way, he/she will be attacked/subdued and
nearby  (3 rooms away or closer) guards have a % chance of being
immediately alerted and headed in that direction. After a short period of
time other guards are notified (via Way) and they are no longer on
standby. All will get an upped % to scrutanize passerby's and notice
criminals. Even more, it would be cool if guards organized small
checkpoints, especially around where the criminal was spotted. Maybe a
couple guards would run to the 'rinth and block that off. At the checkpoint,
again the % would be up even further.

(4) PC militia will be notified automagickally via the Way when a crim is
spotted, and can go hunt 'em down if they are available.

(5) Templar PC's could order guards to create a checkpoint.

Anyways, how's that for a start?

Edited to add: Templar thing

- Ktavialt

[elvenchipmunk]

I'm with you Ktavialt. I especially like the checkpoint idea, that would be awesome. If those ideas are somehow codeable, I think it would help the game immensely.

[Koala]

(4) PC militia will be notified automagickally via the Way when a crim is
spotted, and can go hunt 'em down if they are available.

(5) Templar PC's could order guards to create a checkpoint.

Interesting idea, this may open some good RP possibilities between criminals and militia members, which is perfectly fine.

[wizturbo]

The creation of a disguise skill would go a very long way in potentially allievating crim-code issues, as well as many other criminal-type issues game wide.

[jhunter]

I really do like the idea about pc militia being autonotified as if being wayed by another soldier when someone is crimflagged.

You feel a foreign presence contact your mind.

A human Tuluki soldier sends you a telepathic message: A criminal described as (insert sdesc here) has been spotted (insert room title here) and is wanted for the crime of (insert generic crime message).

That would be kind of neat and allow for pc soldiers to get more involved with such things.

Also, the slow spread of the wanted notice among the militia is a good idea for realism and would probably work along with this.

Not necessary...but good ideas I think.

[Rhyden]

Xaminny- I won't discount them now that I actually know there are VNPC soldiers  :wink:

Jhunter- That would be a great idea. More realistic too than the 'contact all' command the soldiers seem to have.  :roll: