can scavengers forage for food? And other subclass ideas

[guestboy]

Hi Everyone. I was wondering if, currently, the subclass "scavenger" is able to forage for food. I am playing one and have not had any luck so far, but I was thinking that if anyone other than rangers ought to be able to forage for food, it would be the scavenger subclass.

Also I had the following ideas for these subclasses:

Linguists: knowing the three main tongues is useful, but hardly that attractive compared to other subclasses (especially considering that anyone can have two of these languages right from the start just by playing a dwarf or a half-elf or such). Perhaps linguists could also have a bonus when picking up languages. (Reading the description for the subclass Bard, this seems to be possible). Linguists might also have a bonus when it comes to learning reading and writing, which I know is illegal, etc., but a knowledge of languages ought to make learning to read/write easier.

Bards: Ought to be able to craft musical instruments.

Caravan Guides: ought to have sharp eyes (scan), in order to spot trouble ahead and protect the caravan they are guiding.

[creeper386]

Don't know if scavengers are able to scavenge for food and ain't sure if they should be able to. I do think they get a good starting forage skill though.

Linguists probably should get bonuses to learning if they don't already, but I don't think there should be bonuses to reading and writing. I know IRL alot of people can talk at a fairly young age, but unless they are taught they don't know how to write, now if this person grew up they'd probably get pretty good at their language(Speaking it) but writing/reading wouldn't be anything easier. Mostly because there is a big gap between hearing and seeing, two senses that don't really work together if any do.

Yes to bards making instruments, but I don't know if they should start out with it... Perhaps there should some sort of learning thing instituted so some skills can be learned(Would be from class to class, so only bards can learn to make instruments) without having the branched or being started with. Just seems to me some skills shouldn't be allowed at the start but shouldn't branch from anything. Also from what I've heard I don't think you can branch subguild skills... But noone seems to know for sure.

Probably good idea for Caravan Guides to have scan but I don't think codewise how the scan skill is if it'd do any good. The already get to drive caravans as it is... Which is a big thing if you get good at it.

Creeper

[Guestoby]

To tell the truth I haven't noticed any success with the forage skill so far on my scavenger!    Not one single measly thing.

For linguists I was thinking in terms of languages, that once you know a couple languages learning more becomes easy not just in terms of the spoken word, but also in terms of the structure of language itself and the ability of linguists' brains to form connections better than those of the average person. I think that would probably aid in picking up reading and writing, which are integral parts of language after all.

For bards, maybe they could branch out into into instrument-making, rather than start out with it?

For caravan guides, the pilot skill is not that great. It's a bit like the ride skill: anyone can learn it. I think Caravan guides start out possibly with a little bit of skill in pilot, but that isn't anything anyone else can't pick up fairly easily and quickly (as long as they have a wagon to drive around for a little while).

Well, as far as French goes, the written looks a lot different than it's actually spoken. Like there's a little sign on my sister's shade in her car that says "Risque de MORT ou de BLESSURES GRAVES" Now since I take Spanish, that's how I tried to pronounce it, but it actually sounded like "Risk de mort o de blessur grav"

So... I'm gonna have to vote no on the bonues to reading/writing, vote yes on "picking up" bonuses

[Bestatte]

Definitely no on the reading writing...

The written alphabet has nothing to do with the spoken language. Being able to read fluent aramaic, if you are a pure-bred american, does not give you even the tiniest bit of advantage in being able to read the aramaic alphabet. It's a completely different thing.

Knowing how to say "konichee-wa!" or however its transliteration is spelled, will not give me any sort of ability to read the japanese alphabet.

My best friend's son speaks greek fluently because his mom is greek and grandmother is greek, but he has no understanding of the greek alphabet.

Alphabets are marks on paper, and the only correlation to language is that which are assigned to them by those creating the alphabets. Verbal sounds are not symbols, they are expressions of thought vocalized. The two are patently unrelated.

[Twilight]

Regarding bards and instrument making.  This subguild used to have this skill.  At one point it was taken away from them.  I believe the concern was that they were able to make incredible amounts of 'sid doing it.

I do like the linguist idea.  Not sure about adding scan to caravan guide though, don't think I like that.

As for scavengers, only rangers get to forage for food.  In the help file for forage, it even says "For example, only rangers can forage for food."

[Sanvean]

Hi Everyone. I was wondering if, currently, the subclass "scavenger" is able to forage for food. I am playing one and have not had any luck so far, but I was thinking that if anyone other than rangers ought to be able to forage for food, it would be the scavenger subclass.

They can't. Maybe in the future. Originally everyone could forage for food, but we changed this because everyone was running out to the farms around Allanak and spam foraging, despite the numberous soldiers standing around who would (presumably) object to people harvesting all the food in a field.

Linguists: knowing the three main tongues is useful, but hardly that attractive compared to other subclasses (especially considering that anyone can have two of these languages right from the start just by playing a dwarf or a half-elf or such). Perhaps linguists could also have a bonus when picking up languages. (Reading the description for the subclass Bard, this seems to be possible). Linguists might also have a bonus when it comes to learning reading and writing, which I know is illegal, etc., but a knowledge of languages ought to make learning to read/write easier.

Some players really like additional languages, and this would be one of the most frequent requests before the subguild. Reading/writing is a skill that needs to be put on manually by a staff member, and they might take someone's being a linguist into account here, so in a sense this is already (sort of) in.

Bards: Ought to be able to craft musical instruments.

As Wooster (I think) notes, they did have, people were making insane amounts of money and unbalancing the game, we removed it.

Caravan Guides: ought to have sharp eyes (scan), in order to spot trouble ahead and protect the caravan they are guiding.

Scan's not a skill that I feel comfortable making a subguild skill. Some skills are more powerful than others, and lead to people choosing subguilds on the basis of the skills they bestow, rather than the character's background.

In reply to the question about branching - here's some history as to why the subguilds were put in, and what the intention behind them was. On a regular basis, we would get emails to the account saying "Hey, in my background, my character was Profession X, can they have skill Y?" I came up with the subguild system to address this, and to allow people some additional options in customizing their characters. The subguilds are intended to represent your character's -background-, not future choices.

While I'm open to people picking up new skills along the course of play, here's some caveats:

Don't email in offering to "swap" things. This isn't some sort of negotiation, where skill X is worth 5 points and skill Y is worth 10, and so forth. Particularly silly are the emails where people write in offering to trade cooking for backstab.

Don't write in and just say "I rped this out". Attach a log, preferably a couple.  Be aware that we're going to make you work for it. By the same token, if you send in a log, we are not then obliged to add the skill with no questions asked. A log or logs strengthens your case; they are no guarantee.

A character with 10 days on it that has been RP-ing out something consistently has a much better chance of it than a character with 10 hours on it.

Be sensible. On occasion, yes, people that are non-magick users have gotten a spell or psi skill - but this is always the result of an extended plot line and some amount of work. You are welcome to go into the Temple of Vivadu and RP with a NPC there infusing you with the power of Greyskull, but it's probably not going to work.

Be aware that there are code limitations. Hide and sneak are particularly problematic if you are not the appropriate class.

If it's a request that requires code specific to your character, like being able to shoot fireballs from your butt, it's going to take a LOT of valid explanation about how this would add to the game.

If you have had problems in the past with game or OOC abuse, maybe you should work on clearing that up before asking for special considerations.

Some skills are more powerful than others. Picking up floristry is going to be a lot easier to talk me into than listen, backstab, or Atomic Fist.

-Sanvean

[Durant]

*mutters under his breath as he clicks delete on his proposal to have "fireball from ass" added to his skill list.*

Pfft, my character Willy Walace got "Arse Lightning" with no problem. And all I traded for it was the Sanity skill.

[Thedarkthief]

arMOUR CRAFTERS CAN DO 1 THING  CRAFT ARMOUR THUS THEY ACTUALLY SHUL BE BETTER AT IT THAN THEY ARE WEN YOU START COZ ITS A WHOLE SUBCLASS BASED ON MAKING ARMOUR YET IM LUCKY IF I CAN MAKE 1 THING FATER 20 TRIES

[SirAaronsworthy]

Subguild skills don't branch

Thedarfthief.... what? Fater? I totally lost the meaning of that enitre sentence.

[Delirium]

Broken down into sentances:

"Armor crafters can do one thing, craft armor. Thus they actually should be better at it than they are when you start, because it's a whole subclass based on making armor. Yet, I'm lucky if I can make one thing after 20 tries."

Which I don't really agree with. Armor crafters have the potential to make lots of 'sid if I'm not mistaken, plus I really doubt it's easy to be working with leather, chitin, and primitive tools. Crafting such things WOULD take a substantial amount of skill, and it's not unreasonable that you'd have to work at it quite a bit for some time.

[Olafson]

One thing that I do think should be added to the Linguist is the ability to change their accent when they speak.  They would then become excellent spies.  Perhaps this should also be added to one of the thief guilds as well.  It would obviously be a learned skill that would see them fail at times.  I personally see this as the next step since accents were added.

[witchman]

I would agree that linguists should be able to chanage their accent, perhaps viewing the accent which they are currently using in their status display.

They should also get a bonus to learning new langauages - and the bonus should increase with the number of languages.  Perhaps when they start they have a 5% bonus and each additional language beyond three they get a few more points to indicate familiarity with different cultures, ability to put similar concepts together and whatnot.

I think method for adding Read/Write (via staff, taking into account the subguild) is probably the best way to handle this very important skill.

While the debates may rage endlessly regarding the other subguilds, I must say I like this one the best and feel it's near perfect.  Especially when played as though the character has some knowledge of the cultures involved in the languages he's speaking.

</babble> :-)

[creeper386]

I'd have to say I disagree with the idea that learning one language may help you with other languages. It may be that way on Earth to a certain degree, but thats with the languages with a common close father/mother language, if you think knowing english well help you at all with japanese your badly mistaking. The same would go I'm sure for DIFFERENT RACES ALTOGETHER, as well as isolated groups, which I'm sure the nomads and all that would have been isolated for along time or else why would they have a different language, or why would they be diffirinciated(GAH... ugly word specially with my spelling)... Why would they be stuck into another group as all the rest?



Creeper

[Plazgoth]

I think the idea is that if you know English, Chinese, and Russian, you will have an easier time picking up Spanish, Taiwanese, and Bulgarian. I realize that Zalanthas is not Earth but the idea should hold.

[Carnage]

Actually, it's pointed out in the docs that there are descendants. I don't have the time to check now, but I know off the top of my head that the gith language is descended from Allundean.

[maow]

Subguild skills don't branch

so if i was a ranger archer i wouldent get to make bows??!?!?!

[Rindan]

You would.  They don't branch only if you would not normally get the skill.  So, a warrior that picks up tailoring won't have it branch into tent making.  However, a merchant that picks up tailoring will have it branch into tent making.  That was just a made up example.  I have no idea of tailoring branches into tent making.

[swordmaster]

Subguild skills don't branch

they dont so me being a ranger archer i will never get bow making?

[Rindan]

No, you will get bow making if you are a ranger.  On the other hand, a merchant with the archery subclass will not get bow making.

[Voice of Reason]

Last I played an Archer subclass, I did get bow_making. I was pretty sure Bow_making is one of the skills that makes the difference between the Archer and the Hunter subclasses. Hunter instead of bowmaking, I'm pretty sure gets tracking and tanning, but I tihnk they both get Archery and Fletching.

[creeper386]

Actually, it's pointed out in the docs that there are descendants. I don't have the time to check now, but I know off the top of my head that the gith language is descended from Allundean.

Okay, whoever said this, yes, it's true. It also says in the documents that Gith themselves descended from elves, but did DWARVES descend from elves? Did HUMANS descend from Elves? If they did it was so long ago that the language would in no way last.

Maybe if your a gith or your an elf you can learn would have an easier time learning the other language, but there is a good chance, that even though they have mutual descendants that the languages would be WAY different. Not only have the gith changed and now have their own language, the elves would have changed as well, new accents new words, may be the same language but it could be quite different.

Look at the short time humans have been around. We haven't been around to develop any long standing physical mutations or anything, yet if you went back in time back into time, your ability to understand what was being said would continue to go down. They had different accents, words mean different things, so on and so forth. And it's in the SAME language between the same race.

But thats just how I figure it.


Creeper

[fred]

i think there should be an assassin subguild after all there is thief

[Typo]

To Fred=

Asking for something to be added with your only argument being "because there is this" is a pretty good way to get your idea rejected.

About Linguists=

I agree with Creeper. Try reading some of the Federalist Papers or the Declaration of Independance . That is pretty hard involved reading, especially considering it was only written a few centuries ago. Compare that to another race that evolved differently than you, and you start getting crazy with it.

I do agree that it would be pretty neat if the linguist could start switching around accents, though it might be pretty hard to fool someone who actually has that accent, it would still add some intrigue into the game.

About Subguild skills=

I always looked at the subguilds as some extra flavour to my character, and really paid little to no attention to the skills I got from that subguild. But it makes sense to me that subguild skills should be VERY limited in how they branch. My warrior might be able to get a few dings out of his chitin bracers, but asking him to build a set of scrab shell arm greaves...

[Angela Christine]

i think there should be an assassin subguild after all there is thief

I'm not sure what an assassin subguild would give you that you can't get already, you just have to focus on what aspect of assassins you want to give your non-assassin character.  The Thug, Thief, Physician or Acrobat subguilds might work, depending on what your primary guild is and what assassin-ish quality you want.  

Most subguilds only have 2 or 3 skills, and generally only 1 of those is a "powerful" skill.  A combination like Backstab, Poison and Throw would be overpowered and unlikely to be implimented.  The best way to be a working thief is to take the Burglar or Pickpocket class, not the theif subclass.  No subclass will will be as assassinish as the assassin class.

AC