Unskilled labor

[Avril]

No, I'm not talking about clay pits or anything of the kind. What this thread deals with is the use of skills that don't fit into your guild's list, but that you can use anyway (without serious reprecussions or an obvious failure), or skills that have already been maxed out and you don't plan to use for any coded benefits. Examples range from scan and all the other perception abilities that show an echo (including forage, I think), to most of the combat skills and perhaps sneak. Using them at the right times can help conceal your guild from other players, but offers the risk that you might be declared a powergamer who's simply out to max his skills.

I want to find out what situations might warrant the use of a skill because of virtual factors, such as VNPCs that would cause you to be more careful or interesting objects lined all over the walls. Off the top of my head:

flee - sometimes, when you're scared out of your wits, this command might be more appropriate than a regular run. Still, I'd never use it, as I don't like handling my characters to the code.
forage - I use this to hunt for virtual stuff that helps me solve virtual problems whenever they show up. If I really find something, I junk it or pretend it came along with the above-mentioned virtual stuff.
guard - moving to stand in front of someone, facing a potential threat. Also useful for situations when whatever might come at you would have to get through you to reach your protegee (a narrow hallway with a dead end, for instance).
scan - looking through the people in a crowded place or the items in a shop.
search - hardcore browsing in a shop, feeling your way along walls in the dark.
sneak - any situation in which you want to be seen sneaking up to someone (if you don't have the skill), or in which the virtual circumstances make it very easy to slip by unnoticed (provided you have the skill to back it up).
peek - appraising a person's clothes, body, whatever.
(Incidentally, I like the use of the command "consider" simply because it gives me a good laugh. It may be redundant, since there's an assess command that gives no echo, but I love it.)
throw - volleyball, RP'd stonings and some peculiar card games.

What do you think when you see a player creatively use a skill (which he might not even have on his list)? Is it spammy? Enjoyable? A good way to hide one's class? Or does it bother you that the player in question might be powergaming?

[Kill4Free]

My view is if he emotes it out, then he should be able to do it, not spamming it obviously, but I have a char who likes to bash foes, to simulate a headbutt, and he doesnt have the skill bash.  I like to do it, even if I fail a lot, it makes the game more entertaining.

[Gilvar]

I'd much rather see people emote personally then use a skill they know wont work or don't want to work but are just providing a message to people in the room. If the intent is to hide your guild, then yes that is bad, but I dont think its powergaming. Its using OOC information (i.e. existing stock command messages) to try to set ooc perceptions on players watching you of what your guild is.

thats my opinion.

[Delirium]

While I think 'posing' as a guild is silly and based purely on OOC information (bad), I see nothing wrong with performing a coded action that you as a player know will probably not work, but that your character wishes to attempt regardless. Does it blur the lines? Yeah. Is that a bad thing? I don't really see it as one...

Do I think you should emote it out? Of course.

Do I think you should rely only on the code (and stick only to skills your character has and thus has a prayer of succeeding at)? Nah.

Do I think the code can back up and enhance RP? Shit yeah.

I don't agree with all of Avril's examples, but some of them I've seen or used myself. e.g. 'flee self' when something nasty comes in, a kick, bash, scan, disarm, peek, etc when I don't have the skill but the situation warrants an attempt, guarding someone important to my character without the 'guard' skill, and I've seen 'consider' used by a half-giant who will remain nameless, at a brilliantly timed moment that was, yes, OOCly amusing, but perfectly IC and added a great touch to the scene.

I'd be careful about going too far with it of course. Often an emote IS all that's necessary.. for example the forage or search thing - I really don't see a need to enter those commands with the examples Avril provided above.

[Bestatte]

I've used the guard skill without having the guard skill on my list. I didn't realize I didn't have it - it never occurred to me to check, heh.

I'm not gonna -stop- using it just because I now realize it isn't on my list. People would be too accustomed to seeing my character guard other people, and it's become one of her "things" that she does sometimes.

Sue me - that's how it is <shrug>

[Sandstorm Phoenix]

"If the intent is to hide your guild, then yes that is bad"


Why?

I would think that if someone is using their OOC knowledge of our rigid class-based skillsets to affect their IC actions, then the fault is theirs for making incorrect assumptions based on OOC knowledge.


Say I'm playing a mindbending void-defiling assassin, but I'm wanting to be hired as a guard for Lord Smoochie.  You telling me that it is bad if I type "guard smoochie" even though I know I don't have the guard skill?   What about if he orders me to check the area for hidden sneakies and I type "scan"?

[wizturbo]

The game is set up, so you can immediately tell people's guilds based on just a few factors.  That means, people can instantly know if they can defeat you in a melee fight, if you can hide or sneak, if your able to speak a language, if your able to do...basically any coded action in the game.  

THATS BULLSHIT.

I will -always- try and throw people off-guard from IC and OOC perspectives by simply using skills that literally everyone in the world could use, but just aren't coded to give you any benefit.  Basically everyone can play hide and go seek, yet only very certain people can hide, and very certain people can seek (scan) in this world.  The reasons for this are simple, my character is not a "merchant" he/she is a PERSON.  With a diverse set of skills and talents that they've picked up over the years.  If I think my character is perceptive, i'll use scan liberally when situation applies.  If I think my character is a sneaky type, I'll use sneak.  Just because the code says I can't do it, doesn't mean I'm not going to try, and if by trying it throws off people who immediately assume all of my characters talents on that information...so be it...i see that as a benefit.

[Bestatte]

Heh I'm with that! I remember playing a Merchant House family member - and I didn't come with Cavilish because I didn't know I was supposed to pick the "merchant" class (and as it turns out, I didn't have to - just a wish up asking for Cavilish was enough but I didn't know this at the time)...

And I was "tested" by a templar who questioned whether or not I was legit, or if I was just some dumb fuck commoner nobody pretending to be a family member of a merchant house.

So - they talked to me in Cavilish to see if I understood it, and I had to think fast to explain why I didn't know it, or my PC would've been killed because she lacked a skill that "everyone knows all merchants come with."

To whoever that templar was (I really don't remember now, it was around 2 years ago) - guess what? Not all merchant family members come with Cavilish. The same goes for someone using the coded skills to test whether or not someone is truly a "warrior/guard" by asking them to rescue when they don't have the skill.

ANYONE can roleplay a house guard. Yes, even a magicker, if he is strong enough and can hold a weapon in his hand. He probably won't be a very good one, but anyone who thinks using a lack of coded skills to "prove" that someone is something other than what he claims - needs to think again.

[Gilvar]

No. Deliberately using a skill to make people think your guild is different, not because its the right thing to do or appropriate for your character is bad. There is nothing wrong with doing things that you'd likely do even if you dont have the skill. I kick all the time in combat even if I dont have the skill. I guard, etc. But I dont do them with the intent of: "I dont want these players to know im an assassin, so I better bash inappropriately and for no reason to throw them off."

Its the same as speaking badly and dressing in newbie gear indefinetely to convince people your new OOCly when your not.

[Miee]

Once upon a time, I had a guild that didn't come with bash.  Nevertheless, during sparring sessions I had a bit of IC coaching on how to do it.  What my actual guild was, I suspect was pretty damn obivous.  

I don't think I would have ever sent logs in and asked for the skill.  But I still played it out and typed <bash Bob>.

Here's a hypothetical example:

WyvernBitch Amos has the combo of warrior/thug.  WyvernBadMotherShutYourMouth Betsy just broke her favorite bracer.  She grabs Amos and commands him to fix it since, well, Amos is her bitch.  Betsy's going to stand there and make sure he does it right or it's a good hard flogging by Bob the Ugly Mul.  Amos has no repair skill.  Amos can still emote through the situation and type 'repair bracer'.  You figure that runs the risk of breaking it.

Now Amos is being punished and adds some RP logs to the fire.

So yeah, nothing wrong with trying to use a skill on that's not on your list.  Down and out former Bynners who need to steal that handful of sid to get some water, Amos, my aforementioned PC, etc. etc.

None of this "I'm gonna hide my class!" crap...that isn't IC of course.