I cantrip. Canyou?

[Malifaxis]

Mages.  Elementalists.  Wigglers.  Assholesthatblowyouup.

Yes, we all know they can cause the sun to fall out of the sky and land on your eye.  We've all heard tales of how Allanak's sister city, Minneapolis, was destroyed by an angry vivaduan with a 2000 day hail/frog storm.  And who among you has not personally experienced the full wrath of a whiran's blowjob?

They can do all these amazing, whacko, killthecrapoutofyou things.

But can an expert rukian, with a gesture, cause all of the dust in the room to coalesce in Lord Hardnose's pantaloons?  Not exactly.  Why can't a vivaduan with max'd create water take a freakin shower?  

I would *love* to see five or six minor 'cantrip' spells added to each elementalist class... like not just flashy emotes, but actual cantrips that players can cast and use.  What would be truely beautiful is if there was a way that these cantrips could not have a 'casting' message, or in some instances, not even the need to stand up.

Now, before you all freak out and tar and feather me for suggesting such an obviously twinky thing, let me explain.  I'm not talking about any way to possibly kill anyone, or any way to really even cause harm more than vague annoyance... but the ability to scare the living SHIT out of people with minor magickal effects.

You're playing cards with five dudes, one a whiran, you don't know it, they aren't gemmed, and all of a sudden you see a card float off of the stack and up one of the other (non whiran) player's sleeves.

Sitting at the bar, everyone's giving you really odd looks, and then you look in to your mug of ale and realize that some fucking krathi bastard has decided it would be funny as hell to make your eyes glow red.

Now, if there was a casting effect notification, 'Blah blah calls upon the whosiwhatsit of this element', then everyone would instantly jump on caster X and whoop the snot out of them, then go back to drinking... but if it was just able to happen?  Hell yes that would freak people out.

People are still not afraid enough of mage-types, but that's because (most of the time), you won't encounter one outside of special designated areas... because they can't do a damn thing to defend themselves if you jump them.  But if they could do things to you without you ever having a clue?

Another idea I came up with, instead of coding up five to six new abilities for each elementalist type, was to make it so that the 'base six' (any mage player will know what I'm talking about, those that don't, won't) could be cast without message, up to say 'kral', when they are max'd out.

You start out as a child riding a trike, and you get the hang of it.  Then you move up to a bicycle, and it takes a bit, but you get it, and then you master it.  Later, you move up to a kawasaki ninja 750, and roar down the road... sometimes, when things get hairy on the highway, you need to think about steering that rocket... but after 10 years on a bicycle, you can ride hands-free with your eyes closed, smoking a blunt.

Is it too much to ask to be able to cast the smallest of effects with no hands, eyes closed, smoking a phat tube of spice?

(And before anyone jumps on me and shouts that it would be abused by twinks, lets all remember that magickers are karma only classes, and are monitored, and twinks would probably not be there.)

[Carnage]

(And before anyone jumps on me and shouts that it would be abused by twinks, lets all remember that magickers are karma only classes, and are monitored, and twinks would probably not be there.)

That's a good one.

[Akaramu]

(And before anyone jumps on me and shouts that it would be abused by twinks, lets all remember that magickers are karma only classes, and are monitored, and twinks would probably not be there.)

Well I must say I've seen my share of bad and / or twinky elementalists. In once case hearing of a 4+ karma app being approved to one specific player made me want to sigh and shake my head. Overall magickers seem fairly well-played to me, but sometimes there's a bad egg who for whatever reason got through with his app, and I doubt those people will have their PC removed from the game for just terrible play as long as they dont twink-kill random people or something like that. *shrug*

Yes to sneak-casting for spells you're very skilled with.

No to coded cantrips, they can be emoted, or wished up about.

[Sir Diealot]

I absolutely love the idea.. But I've always been a proponent of upping Magicker power.. Or making them more versatile.

[Dakkon Black]

Overall I like this idea. Small cantrips that are defined. It would make sense realistically, and just might help in giving players overall a better fear of magickers. But in the end coding it and making it happen might be too much.

Ergo, back to the silent spell idea. My favourite. 100 day magickers that can cast so well you don't even know they did it till your dying/dead.

[Anonymous]

Failing this being implemented as coded spells, I'd love to just see some examples of what are some acceptable cantrips.

I've only once used a cantrip as an elementalist for fear of pushing it too far.  Having a fire-farting Krathi, or something, might seem fine to me but might go too far for the staff.

More than that, can an elementalist of sufficient skill keep their cantrips going as long as they want?  Can a whiran keep the wind blowing their hair at all times if they choose, or can a rukkian keep making the rocks in his hands jiggle?

It's this sort of idea, though, that if done right can add a lot of flavor to magicker roles.  Too much able to do openly, though, might detract from the low-fantasy setting.  A backroom of Vivaduans having a big group shower would probably give newer people a skewed idea as to how prevalent magick is.

[wizturbo]

Being able to cast spells (with greater difficulty, or with added components) silently/invisibly would solve this issue I think.

Not ALL spells should be able to do this, but some should.  And certain people should still be able to recognize who cast the spell.

[Callisto]

A backroom of Vivaduans having a big group shower.

We need to make this happen.

[Anonymous]

I'm against the idea of coded cantrips.  At most, have a way to voluntarily drain yourself, with perhaps the coded room echos.  The thing about cantrips is that what makes them really cool is the creativity of the player in coming up with something with a neat or cool factor.  I think you loose that by coming up with standard ones.

Personally, I loved making a stone ring into a temporary vibrator with a fairly skilled Rukkian.

[Quo]

I agree that cantrips are a wonderful thing, and well able to make up most 'casting' a magickally enabled char does. In fact, they're the everyday magick,with even more impact on a scene than the (more predictabele) coded 'spells'.

I wouldn't call for 'silent' magick, though.
If your cantrips develop intor a nice little spell that could be added - I'm sure there's "someone" you can talk to or mail your idea. In doubt, the mud account wouldn't be the worst target for this.
However I think that there's a reason for the coded effect. If you're playing a magicky char you'll very likely know it. That's why I'd rather include the coded effect to a certain extent even in an emoted cantrip rather than keeping it all creepy and silent.
Cantrips like the card-playing whiran you suggested imho can easily be done with the means available. Emote is able to do a lot of "magick", and drop fits in very very nicely. If your exemplary whiran specializes in such action, a skill I found in the helpfiles comes to my mind that migh be useful in performing such magick. A matching subguild or a polite and detailled request might be all this whiran needs.
I can imagine going without the skill, though, if the other players coorperate (i.e. the targeted player completes the emoted action by getting the card himself). Like all emoted action this needs some cooperation and consent to flow, but a game like the one you suggested would need "good" roleplayers anyway.
("Good" just meaning that everyone is playing along rather than trying to find a reason why something that got emoted instead of being hard-coded couldn't have happened. But then, I think this applies t o the majority of players here, if not all. Of course, this also requires a lot of consideration on the emoting side if the effect he induces on others is still  acceptable or if he's overdoing it. If in doubt, a polite question to your friendly neighbourhood Imm (or the account) works magick again :)

In praise of emote
  Quo (fumble-fingered helpfile reader)

[Larrath]

The problem with emoting, though, is this:

"A skull-painted vellum card suddenly jumps to the air from the airy, wind-tousled dude's deck, hovering in front of the tall, muscular man's face".

Now let's see here for a moment, we have a weird magick effect, obviously an emote...

We've got the card, we've got the tall, muscular man who is being targetted...and we have a second, unrelated character that could as well be omitted!

Conclusion: The airy, wind-tousled dude is a magicker.


I like emoted cantrips as much as the next guy, and when possible, I'd like to see them used.  If you are looking for a "I didn't throw that" moment, however, an emote will simply not work.


"A small pile of dust rises from the floor and gathers into a tiny ball in the middle of the air.  Whizzing over the Rukkian-tattooed, earth-toned man's head, it zooms forward and hits the back of the fancy panted man's robe.".

Sure, I'm willing to assume that at least Lord Fancypants and some other choice players will have the common decency to not immediately give the Rukkian-tattooed man an odd stare...but the three other people over there?  I'm not as certain about that.  Nope.


Here's an idea, however.  A "cantrip" command, identical to emote, but instead of the users sdesc, it will show "a ball of dust/a gust of wind/a few drops of water/a reddish flame".  People will then be able to make cool cantrips without giving away who they are.

The command will be logged and abuse will be punished.  Shrug...I think it's a nice idea.

[Marauder Moe]

Here's an idea, however. A "cantrip" command, identical to emote, but instead of the users sdesc, it will show "a ball of dust/a gust of wind/a few drops of water/a reddish flame". People will then be able to make cool cantrips without giving away who they are.

That's a really nice idea.  

However, -changes- like this need to be considered carefully.  If magickers could make things float about and sparkle all the time with no fear of detection they might do so and terrorize taverns throughout the known world.  The mechanic of automatically being identified when using magick is an IC mechanism for keeping them in check.

[Larrath]

Well, maybe some choice people could be able to tell who is behind cantrips...or something.  It should not be imprevious to detection, but I don't want Joe Average to know who is behind it.  From what my limited knowledge of the game offers me, I believe it is very easy to make the system differentiate properly...but perhaps not always.

If the command is logged, I don't think we'll be seeing a lot of:

"A reddish flame appears on Lord Fancypants' cheeks, searing his eyes" or balls of dust that lodge themselves in convenient places.

*suddenly entertains himself with the notion of a Whiran that makes a noble fart boomingly every two minutes*


I suppose it will also be up to these choice people to not jump up and throw daggers whenever they see "A tiny gust of wind swirls through the common room, mingling the scents of ale and sweat that linger in the air".

[Quo]

Hi Larrath,

I disagree that emoting automagically gives away the emoter. There's no need to restrict the "possibly active people" (i.e. nounds describing livings) to "source" and "target".
Any reasonable number of livings can be part of the emote, and the person writing the emote doesn't necessarily have to be the "active" part in it. I have witnessed some true masters of emoting make an entire village full of npcs and vnpcs turn alive around a few players, and I am still in deep awe when I recall those scenes.  As unspectacular as those proceedings might have been, they're among my most treasured roleplaying experiences, and I thank everyone involved for allowing me to be part of their play. You know who you are!

But I'm digressing. While there certainly is a tight line not to peruse that true power of emoting by forcing something upon another living (be it pc, npc, or vnpc!) that would contradict with him, it's certainly possible to construct complex scenes where the emoter isn't obvious (and those emotes don't need to span 3 lines and more).
Nevertheless I'd consider it good style not to entirely hide the affinity to an element. Even if the emoting "caster" doesn't get pointed out with a blinding spotlight, small hints visible to careful observers can well be noticeable. We all depend on the rp of those around us, and if your char doesn't trust those people around him, he''d better not give any food to suspicion anyway.
Casting, however "minute" always bears the risk of discovery, and I don't see why nice little cantrips should be an expection to that.

Here's an idea, however.  A "cantrip" command, identical to emote, but instead of the users sdesc, it will show "a ball of dust/a gust of wind/a few drops of water/a reddish flame".  People will then be able to make cool cantrips without giving away who they are.

The command will be logged and abuse will be punished.  Shrug...I think it's a nice idea. :)

I'm a bit torn on that one. I tend to prefer the uptimate freedom of emote. As much as I love the small and miraculous appearances of the elements, I rather leave them to the art and discretion of the ever present immortal beings. If at all, that kind of "echo" could rather be included into the spell/skill tree, possibly to be added at the discretion of the immortals rather than branching automatically. I't might be a nice thing to open up to players who have been consistently responsible and creative about their emoted cantrips, but then "echo" would be even better, allowing to adapt the message to the current place and weather.
But all in all, I don't see a need for that, even if I these days I consistently fumbled harmless emotes because I forgot to include myself into them (doh :). Emote is our friend already, and a powerful one to boot.

Quo the emote-fumbler.

[Larrath]

Giving echo to players is, obviously, just out of the question.  I'd be reluctant about having it given to even sorcerer-karma players, simply because this power is not something players should have.


Now, it is true that there are ways to confuse people about who wrote which emote, using specific and careful positioning, and possibly adding some other PCs in order to confuse.

I do not think it is reasonable to expect that all magickers do this, however...people will just get used to it and it will suck.


I don't really see any downsides to this...as I have said before, the main difference between the Cantrip command and the Emote would be that it will be possible for *appropriate* people to find out.

Since cantrips are minor and sometimes unintentional, I don't think they should get the "I'm a magicker" swirling winds or whatever, and therefore regular citizens should not know the difference.  After all, isn't this exactly what everyone is supposed to be afraid of?  Magickers doing things out of nowhere without betraying their presence?  Let's give this some basis and just let the magickers have more fun and create more play.

[Anarchy]

Perhaps all magickers could have a player verison of the admin room echo? No short desc used in them.