Author Topic: People... Is this a Rant? Hmm... better read on.  (Read 6794 times)

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People... Is this a Rant? Hmm... better read on.
« on: September 24, 2002, 05:28:59 PM »
Well this might be considered a rant by those whose nerves it strikes, being guilty or maybe inclined towards the things I describe.

Now this is only becoming a rare occassion now, as I think this topic is brought up several times, and probably will never cease to be brought up, but its about the roles people play... and the pain it puts on others when they try to use their logical sense when regarding them.

Why in the world, all of them, is nearly everyone some son/daughter of a completely dead family, working against all odds to be come the best or the brightest in their chosen field or profession.

There can only be so many warriors striving to be the best who all coincedently have no other living family and are all the strong solemn type that are never brash or rude, but always chivalrous and courteous and the love of all people.

I believe we call these cliche's but... I didnt just think of that til now and didnt want to revise the whole thing.

Anyways, then there is the one about the whore to society, the woman who is like all the others a diamond in the rough that is somehow untanned or exotically beautiful in this poverty and disease stricken world, that is scaling the economic ladder through her charming white smile (even with the complete lack of toothpaste or any such thing.) This type of role completely disgust me, as I actually saw someone emote a brillant white smile. And have silky clean hair.

Bathing and cleanliness isnt a common thing among the populous, and if you are such a gifted one, why are you sitting in the epitamy(?) of dank disgusting debauchary that is the Gaj. I mean a normal person would be stained for life from even looking at one of those stools.

Ever seen someone clean them? I think not... I dont even want to know what that one spot over there is.... ewww.

Yet they presist.... I have seen maybe 10 gals in my time that werent these perfect pieces of art work, striving to ascend into the greatness of society with their unnatural good looks.

Well this has gone on for a while, and I think you get the point... so now, the question...

Do people ever get tired of these cliche chararacters? and will people ever stop doing it?

The answer ive gathered through out of board means is that these are good easy starting characters for people that have yet to experiment with more challenging roles and ideas... but most of these people that answered were unsure. So thus I bring it here. Please dont destroy me with flames and insults please.

Jenred :shock:

John

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People... Is this a Rant? Hmm... better read on.
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2002, 05:35:10 PM »
I do my best to make a fair bunch of my characters your ordinary joes, sure I've had my fair share of perfect warriors with dead families, but a fair amount of my characters are your regular people who are trying to support their family because the dad's too old to work, or he visits them on occassion.

There is only one small problem, well two actually.

1. All of my characters die before anyone knows about them.
2. They don't go around telling their life story, because it's boring.

I know quite a few people who are ordinary people, and I think you said at the start that is the norm.

The main thing is, hardly anyone notices us ugly regular joes, and doesn't remember us either, why? Cause we're common, no different to the dozens of NPCs you see, so eventually we're forgotten.

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People... Is this a Rant? Hmm... better read on.
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2002, 05:45:11 PM »
I guess its just me, but Id rather meet a bunch of average people that I can relate to then to be constantly bombarded by these stories of greatness from these super-cliche warriors that make me pale in my own achievements always.

I dont think any of my characters are 'remembered' for their great achievements, because being great shouldnt be common...

 :twisted: And if everyone's parents are dead why is it so damned crowded.

Jenred  :shock:

Plazgoth

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« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2002, 06:23:42 PM »
Well I have played a warrior who was a nobody when I started playing him and as he went on living for quite a while things happened to him, so he had some amazing stories to tell. It wasn't that he was all powerfull or very good. He was a drunk and liked to slack off, but he just happened to be part of some cool things. So of course as he lived on he would tell the stories of his life. I don't see the problem with putting in your background that you did all those things and then tell about them IC but your skills might not back you up on the stories and you might come off as a liar.  My warrior didn't even have all his family dead. But I think if you met him now, you would clasify him as one of the ones you hate to meet, because he has endless stories to tell.

Just trying to give you a different perspective on the whole thing.

ShaLeah

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You'd think we would stop bringing up the same shit, but no.
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2002, 06:57:57 PM »
I'm female in RL.
I play females on Arm.
I have had drop dead gorgeous characters (my vision mind you) and average (even mentioning average IN my description) characters.  I made a character specifically as a F'me PC.  She was a smart-ass, she was gorgeous and she was brazen enough to be kanking her boyfriend in the middle of the Gaj.  Everyone marked her a slut.  Let me tell you something, playing that kind of character opens your eyes.

First of all, for every male who shows interest, there are three showing disdain.

Females, I won't go as far as saying they feel threatened but it felt that way, average females looked down on the good looking one, no particular reason but for the fact that she was pleasant to behold.

No one took her seriously.

Those who did were just really good at pretending to take her seriously.

Now, all that said, let me express, one more time, my opinion.

It is a fantasy world. Let people act out their fantasy!  You get sick by looking at pretty people? It's a harsh world, kill them or insult them or scorn them or do whatever, they should be able to handle it.  I honestly do not understand why Zalanthas would be any worse than say, Ethiopia or any other third world country.  In a world where reality has considerably less warmth and love than your average freezer section, the fact that people seek out other people for companionship is completely normal. What the person looks like is irrelevant.  Frankly, I find it sad that in our need to control our environment we try and hinder everyone elses freedom.  We will use words to portray what we want people to see, whether it's colossal size, pale skin, supple lips or massive breasts and in doing so, we are bound to be repetitive and most of all, we are bound to piss someone off.


Here are a few Armageddon truths.

Templars and nobles will take advantage of whomever they please. They will most likely also bed some commoner or another, giving said commoner a slightly better position which is really not all people think it is.  Bedding nobility (either physically or politically) usually does not end up in anything good.  Ask any of those commoner whores that hear all kinds of 'I love you's but still remain commoners, albeit wealthy ones.

There will always be butt ugly, average, deformed and drop dead gorgeous, sexy people.  No matter how dirty you are, someone is going to be interested in you.  Ask any of those ugly ass, one-eyed women who still get hit on because they are fun to rp with.

People will be over achievers, heck, dwarves are created with a goal in mind. Personally I think we all strive to be remembered in some way, on Zalanthas or rl so if we make a char that is remembered, that's good right?

Last, people will form an opinion of your character, whether educated or not, and for the most part, stick to it (mostly because we all live such a damned short period of time).

If you're the best warrior to be, by golly, work it, be proud!
If you're a neurotic thief, steal anything your shaky little hands can get!
If you happen to have a good looking character and lord poopy pants beds you and promotes you to whatever, hurrah!
If for some Krath awful fluke of nature you are a measly basket weaver who somehow, someday ends up becoming nobility... we're not worthy!


ShaL
-who thinks it's much too much fun to talk bad about all these people and wouldn't have it any other way.

Did you see that prissy two sid whore? I hear she's kanking the Fale templar and the Oash advisor!   :twisted:
I'm taking an indeterminate break from Armageddon for the foreseeable future and thereby am not available for mudsex.
Quote
In law a man is guilty when he violates the rights of others. In ethics he is guilty if he only thinks of doing so.

Rindan

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People... Is this a Rant? Hmm... better read on.
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2002, 07:18:59 PM »
I wouldn't go so far as to say that it annoys me, but I too prefer people being a little more modest.  There is nothing wrong with having dead parents.  In a place where the average life span is probably relatively short, it would not be uncommon for most people's parents to be dead by the time they are in their mid twenties.  That said, having your parents killed by raiders is very cliché.  Raiders would certainly not be the number one cause of death.  Things like dying giving birth and heart attacks would be the norm.  It is ok to have dead parents, just try and make it a little less cliché.

Living family is great too though.  It isn’t like you have to see them.  You could be having an argument with them and don’t see them any more.  You could only occasionally virtually visit when you are offline.  They don’t have to be a big part of your life.

As far as the filth issue, that is something I am big on.  My character lives and works in a dirty place doing a dirty job.  I make it damned clear to everyone around him that he is dirty.  I too wish that people would perhaps be a bit more aware of the filth around them.  True, some people can avoid it, but not your average Joe.  If you are the type to spend your time in the Gaj, you probably fall under the can’t avoid it category of people.  That said, I think that there is an easy way to deal with people that try to project clean in a place that screams filth.  Simply describe the world for them.  Emote stomping through a puddle of vomit as he walks past a clean dressed persons table, splashing vomit towards them.  If a nice clean person sits next to you, describe the cockroach running across the bar top.  Spill you drink, and describe the steam of ale running across the table towards them.  Don’t be a jerk and force them into the filth though, you can initiate virtual events that are reasonable, but you must let them respond how they want.  True, they might magically emote jumping out of the way of every splash of vomit or spilled drink, but they are eventually going to catch on.  Really strive to make such emote clear in that these are simply things that happen in this environment, not malicious or willful acts by your character.  I have a feeling most people do the things they do simply because they are not thinking of the world as a filthy place.  You have the ability to paint a clearer picture.

As far as everyone having the ‘me rising against and above the world’ attitude, I don’t really mind too much.  Generally, the world wins without any help from me.  That said, I think that people are missing out when they do this.  I think that mundane characters are the most interesting, especially if they live long.  It is one thing to have events in your background that are lofty and big.  It is entirely different to actually live through real events.  These days, when I start a character, his background is almost empty.  It is a basic description of his attitudes, and the mundane upbringing that shaped those attitudes.  I just go with simple things like, “Mom died giving birth to me, and dad was a militia man, and as a result, my character really appreciates martial abilities and rigid discipline.  He had very few female influences on his life, so he is a manly man.”  It describes a basic attitude that the character might have, but the big events in his life are still yet to come.  The true joy of a long lived character is that you have real and solid events to base your personality on.

Bestatte

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People... Is this a Rant? Hmm... better read on.
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2002, 07:22:53 PM »
Well as someone who might be *perceived* to fit some of those traits, and without actually divulging IC information, keep in mind that sometimes, things aren't what they seem.

That said,

My character isn't overly pretty - she's pretty as commoners go, but no raving exotic beauty. But she exudes a joi de vivre, and I think, or at least hope, it gives people the impression that she's prettier than she really is. That was the plan, in any case.

But again, I stress that some of the personality traits you've listed can only be *perceived* to fit my character, but aren't necessarily the case at all.

But then again they might be.

I ain't tellin.

<g>

Vendyra

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Well, I can't blame anyone for these stereotypes.
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2002, 08:43:15 PM »
How often do we have these images shoved down our throats?

    The buxom warrioress who can run around, scantily clad, and manage to take down the largest of foes.  (See: Xena)

    The ultimate warrior, striving to get revenge on the people who killed his parents.  How will he get his revenge?  By killing everyone in sight.

    That slick little assassin who always gets his stabs in at the right time.  He never fails to have a whole armory of weapons stowed on him.  (See: The Scorpion King)


I know i'm being vague here, but what i'm trying to say is that most of the popular works that we read are about unique and unusual characters.  To read a book about a run-of-the-mill farmer who harvests daily and never gets into adventures might strike some as boring.  Would you like to sit around with a bunch of bland characters who are completely average?  We have to sacrifice that strict of a realism to get the quality of play that we have here.  Some of us players are hack and slashers at heart.  Those sorts of habits are hard to give up.
Vendyra

lukie

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Sniffing
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2002, 09:27:00 PM »
While we're on the topic of clean, let's not forget:

Sniff. Not spice.

Ever smelled a noble?

>sniff noble

He smells like dust and sweat.

>sniff buxom

She smells like dust and sweat.

There is more to being clean than emoting, ya know. That perfume shop isn't just there to look nice. Use it!

As you were.
I've been away from Zalanthas for some time, but I still think you all are kank shit. Don't worry, I'll come back and fix it up. By the way, has anyone found, like, water? This desert is getting old.

marko

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Re: People... Is this a Rant? Hmm... better read on.
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2002, 10:54:11 PM »
Quote from: "Jenred"
Why in the world, all of them, is nearly everyone some son/daughter of a completely dead family, working against all odds to be come the best or the brightest in their chosen field or profession.


Simply put:  This is a game and people want to have fun.

A lot of people use roleplaying games as a method to live out a dream or a secret desire, as such their characters reflect these explorations.

Why begrudge anyone because they felt that playing the diamond in the rough was the way to go (or whichever character arch-type you think is overplayed)?

We grow up with a set of fantasy arch-types and we rolelpay them out.  Read any fantasy book (and honestly, I can't think of any book except perhaps the Discworld series that doesn't do this) and you will see why people play these characters.

I don't think it is bad that people do this.  I'd rather see people having their fun then having to worry that there are people harboring resentment towards them because what they are doing was done before or is common.  Common is good, common is easy, common makes money.

As for dead relatives - it's easier that way.

By in large, most of these character types are done by newbies or by veterans who are trying to 'do it properly.'  Stop worrying about what they are doing and play for your enjoyment.  If somehow meeting all these chars is upsetting your enjoyment you can always join a desert tribe or another ISO-type clan where your exposure will be limited.

Angela Christine

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Re: Well, I can't blame anyone for these stereotypes.
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2002, 12:56:09 AM »
Quote from: "Vendyra"
How often do we have these images shoved down our throats?

    The buxom warrioress who can run around, scantily clad, and manage to take down the largest of foes.  (See: Xena)


Never.  Everyone, male or female, has something in every damn wear location they can find something for.   :P   Blackmoon ladies may be the sexiest in the known world, and sexy clothes are available at thier outpost, but who is going to buy clothes that have no value as armor and don't give you a stamina boost?  Even independant merchants usually wear at least light leather armor if they have to do a lot of travelling on kank-back.  She may be wearing that classic scalemail bikini, but you aren't going to see it under her cloak, sleeves, leggings, boots, gloves, veil, sunslits and so on.  The average PC female could be a nun for all the skin you see.

You don't see any shirtless barbarians like on Hurcules either.  Where are all the sexy guys with nothing but boots, loincloth and bandolier?  Damn it, I want to see skin!   :twisted:


Angela Christine
Treat the other man's faith gently; it is all he has to believe with."     Henry S. Haskins

John

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People... Is this a Rant? Hmm... better read on.
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2002, 01:52:37 AM »
Also, another point.

Some people don't realise how having LIVING relatives can add to your character a lot more. Having them dead shortens the range of characters you can have, just always Virtually see your Virtual family and you don't need to solo RP.

Crystal D

  • Posts: 29
People... Is this a Rant? Hmm... better read on.
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2002, 02:30:06 AM »
Well here is where we run into the absolute greatest problem with
fantasy - it's a cliche.  Armageddon does an admirable job of breaking
the typical western fantasy cliches... but that says nothing about the
-players- of said mud.  Most of these people, like myself, grew up on
traditional bread and butter fantasy.  Gallant warriors, the alabaster
skinned princesses who love them, and the mighty quest to save said
princess!  Now, we have a mud - you can LIVE these fantastic stories
you love!  You can be the warrior, the princess - or perhaps their
companions! The cunning and sometimes blackhearted thief, the
honourable knight, the rugged lone wolf who lives out in the harsh wilds,
the somewhat doddering but brilliant wizard, and many many more!

People LOVE this shit.  I do, I read fantasy novels all the time.  It's always
interesting to see what people do and where they go with such a time
honoured cliche/tradition.  Now - we come to a mud.  What we have
is a living, breathing world created with pain staking time and care.  
People can play their favorite fantasy characters!  And since those great
tales of fantasy never get old (I've been reading fantasy since I was
eight, still read it - and I'm now twenty-two) the great characters of
fantasy will never get old.

Why?  I dunno.  I guess we love it that much.  We have problems with
this though.  How many fucking orphaned farm boys ARE there?  What
about the alabaster-skinned princesses?  They shouldn't even EXIST
on armag.  Or my personal favorite, the 'harsher than thou' survivor type.
I swear that people masturbate when playing that almost offensively
pretentious cliche.   How do you create a realistic world where EVERYONE
wants to be the hero?  You can't.  Armag is not realistic.  It tries, hard, but
it never will be.  Not in a million years.

Why is this?  Because in order to make armag realistic you'd have to
alienate a LOT of the people who play it, and want to play their favorite
fantasy cliches.  Armageddon is -NOT- a western themed world, but
how many of our characters are western themed?  Nearly all of them.
I try to play exceptions (to an extent), and so do others - and for a lot of
us the continual supply of heart stopping beauties and orphaned farmboys
is a little much.  But.. you know.. I have fun.  I live with it.  I'm playing out
my fantasy, you can play out yours.  The world might not make as much
-sense- this way, but at least people aren't excluded.  Hope this made
sense.

Crystal D
Darnell sleeps with goats.'
'Lysinder is much less finicky.'

-From the Shield of Ignorance

Callisto

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!!!
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2002, 04:01:44 AM »
Quote
Blackmoon ladies may be the sexiest in the known world, and sexy clothes are available at thier outpost...


You mean BLACKWING ladies, don't you AC? Or does the idea of a butched-out raider chick make you purr?

You rarely make a mistake, so I've got to point it out when you do.  :P
quote="Teleri"]I would highly reccomend some Russian mail-order bride thing.  I've looked it over, and it seems good.[/quote]

Swordsman

  • Posts: 174
My take
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2002, 04:37:18 AM »
I think a lot of people feel the way you do, Jenred, but I also think a lot of these characters that make you wince are played by newbies who just haven't gotten into the feel of Zalanthas yet. Me, I just avoid Allanak ... and that pretty much takes care of that.  :wink:

Swordsman

Angela Christine

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Re: !!!
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2002, 05:38:28 AM »
Quote from: "Callisto"
You mean BLACKWING ladies, don't you AC? Or does the idea of a butched-out raider chick make you purr?


Blackmoon, blackwing, blackhead, blackbeard . . . I'm flexible.   :roll:

Quote
You rarely make a mistake, so I've got to point it out when you do.  :P


Oooh, now I feel all franchisey, like I'm Startrek or Red Dwarf and have hoards of rabid fanboys ready to point out all my continuity errors.  Cool.   8)  Actually I make tonnes of mistakes, but I sound so well-informed while I do it that people assume I must be right and the rest of the world is wrong.  Right?  

Angela Christine
Treat the other man's faith gently; it is all he has to believe with."     Henry S. Haskins

John

  • Posts: 4240
Re: Sniffing
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2002, 07:54:16 AM »
Quote from: "lukie"
>sniff noble

He smells like dust and sweat.

My characters constantly find this as a source of amusement, that we might be filthy, but they smell just as bad as us.

Plazgoth

  • Posts: 315
Just another opinion
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2002, 09:23:36 AM »
Well I am one person who plays Arm that has not read a ton of fantasy novels. I have not even read the Hobbit or Lord of the Rings. The only "fantasy" book I have read is Dune, and I don't think it can really be considered fantasy. I consider it sci fi. The most exposure to fantasy I've had is playing D&D during college.

I am a big sci fi fan, and I don't really associate my chars on arm with any chars from books I have read. But I still play some of the "wrong" roles. Mind you I did not grow up in the USA so all the media "fantasy" did not get a chance to instill those values in me.

I guess the point of my post is to say that, regardless of what you read or who you are, you are on Arm because what -you- do there is fun for you. Why would I change the way I play or who I play because -you- are not having fun? If you are not having fun then don't play, or play solo, like someone already suggested. Thats the great thing about Arm, if you don't like something you are not forced to deal with it, get up and move or just log off.

Barzalene

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People... Is this a Rant? Hmm... better read on.
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2002, 10:02:18 AM »
The real problem with cliche's is the cookie cutter sameness of them all. I like some complexity, in my characters, and your characters, and characters in film and literature, and yeah, in characters. The problem with the cliche is that it is not compelling. You know how the story ends on page one, so no point reading the book.

On the other hand, the average guy is compelling (guy, girl, kank, thingymabob.) Because there really is no average. Instead of a big story for a background, I would rather see quirks and indiosyncrasies. Like the guy from a big family who guards his food as he eats it. Or...well any one of a thousand little things, where we see big character developement from little details. Hmmm the food thing might not be a great example.
Varak:You tell the mangy, pointy-eared gortok, in sirihish: "What, girl? You say the sorceror-king has fallen down the well?"
Ghardoan:A pitiful voice rises from the well below, "I've fallen and I can't get up..."

deviant storm

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People... Is this a Rant? Hmm... better read on.
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2002, 10:18:44 AM »
Quote
You mean BLACKWING ladies, don't you AC? Or does the idea of a butched-out raider chick make you purr?


Actually, I -was- a BLACKMOON raider chick once. And I wasn't butched at all. No, I wasn't some f-me, though the mul who loved me thought I was pretty damn hot. Gorget, helmet, and anakore gloves and all.

And I was a lady...except when I had to get mean.

 :twisted: Deviant Storm
A glossy, black-shelled mantis says, in insectoid-accented sirihish,
  "You haven't picked enough cotton, friend."
Choose thy fate:

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Hmm... hrm!
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2002, 01:38:41 PM »
Well I think this post is beaten to death. Glad you all shared your opinions on a matter that was pretty important me.

Jenred  :shock:  (Person who made a long thread for once!)

sancho

  • Posts: 65
Clichés? Eh?
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2002, 05:49:05 AM »
- - Now look at this... I take a little four month vacation from the GDB and you people are attacking clichés. Yeah, it's not exactly adding tons to the game's diversity when people play characters with similar backgrounds or mindsets. Why does this matter to any of you? The only thing you should be concentrating on is staying IC and role playing.

- - Yes, originality is nice. However, it most certainly isn't crucial or important to RPing and enjoying oneself. If there are a lot of people playing warriors with dead parents, maybe its because most Zalanthans don't live a long, sheltered life. Maybe it's not uncommon in a world of hardship and oppression that someone whose parents are killed would become violent? If there are a lot of good-looking PCs, so what? There are many thousands of VNPCs that look like a festering bowl of kank shit you could be paying attention to. It's not like there is a gorgeousness epidemic.

- - If you spend time judging other people's characters, you are wasting time you could be RPing. It really isn't anything to fret over. In fact, to be perfectly honest, I have yet to see a cliché character in Armageddon. Every money-minded mercenary with a three word vocabulary I've met would have been cliché, had I not discovered they had personalities. I've run into a few of these gorgeous offenders and found that every one of them was significantly different.

- - Background story criticizing is somewhat silly, though. Unless you're an Imm or maybe a psionicist, you do not know the story. Maybe I said I was a warrior because my parents were killed, and I didn't want anyone else to suffer that way again. Perhaps I was lying. What if I am actually a raider, building myself up as charitable in your eyes so when I offer you a free escort to Red Storm you'll accept it?

- - I have often considered making a character with a short mdesc, speak using only the say command, and who tells tales that would make him seem like a cliché newbie character. Why? Well, I'll tell you why: so people that become jaded will assume I am a newbie. You'd be amazed how many dangerous risks and terrible errors in judgement someone will make for crossing IC and OOC opinions. For example, one of these mistakes is assuming when he invites you to go out hunting alone with him, he isn't a 20th day warrior with three raider friends sitting just outside the gates. I mentioned this idea to a couple people, and one said he and a friend already did it before.

- - I don't mean to come down hard on you, but criticizing what you personally perceive of other players' characters is very disrespectful. Even if the character isn't lying to you when they say their parents were murdered by raiders, it's not something to dwell on OOC. You're not going to get much enjoyment from a cruise if you spend the whole time griping about the drably-colored towels.

- - My advice to you is, don't sweat the small stuff. If someone's character doesn't appeal to you, be aloof ICly. After all, there are plenty of cliché people in life. Just treat these characters as a bland but acceptable part of the RP environment in the same way. However, show them the same respect OOCly you'd show someone who was more creative. You cannot have great RP unless you are respectful and forgiving of other RPers. Don't post stuff like this coming down upon other people's style.


 :arrow: p.s. - One side-note about the Gaj: It is NOWHERE as filthy as it was previously described. The floors aren't painted in vomit, and not all of the seats are covered in a combination of spilled liquor and rat piss. I have no idea where someone came up with the idea of making the Gaj dirtier for the entire rest of the RP world because it suited their fancy, but emoting doesn't make it so. The Gaj is a sports bar with an attached sleeping quarters and public cooking facilities. It is not some run-down dive in the middle of the 'Rinth that is somehow blessed because nothing evaporates in the endless, dry heat.

- - In addition, most filth in Zalanthas is DRY filth. That fact goes double for any place in the middle of a desert (i.e. the Gaj). Stop making the Gaj filthier by your imposement upon the game, you will not get noble characters to stop slumming there. Stop reiterating your anti-cleanliness propaganda in every thread you think you can fit it in. Yes, I have been to the Gaj lately, and yes I have seen the new room echoes. So far what I have not seen is a room echo of a rat slipping and sliding from one end of the Gaj to the other across a lake of filth.
quote]>rant status
You are currently ranting.

>rant off
You shut your damn mouth.[/quote]

"Always remember: An elf in need is a thief indeed."

~His Divine Sancho

John

  • Posts: 4240
Re: Clichés? Eh?
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2002, 06:33:14 AM »
Quote from: "sancho"
- - Now look at this... I take a little four month vacation from the GDB and you people are attacking clichés. Yeah, it's not exactly adding tons to the game's diversity when people play characters with similar backgrounds or mindsets. Why does this matter to any of you? The only thing you should be concentrating on is staying IC and role playing.

- - Yes, originality is nice. However, it most certainly isn't crucial or important to RPing and enjoying oneself. If there are a lot of people playing warriors with dead parents, maybe its because most Zalanthans don't live a long, sheltered life. Maybe it's not uncommon in a world of hardship and oppression that someone whose parents are killed would become violent? If there are a lot of good-looking PCs, so what? There are many thousands of VNPCs that look like a festering bowl of kank shit you could be paying attention to. It's not like there is a gorgeousness epidemic.

- - If you spend time judging other people's characters, you are wasting time you could be RPing. It really isn't anything to fret over. In fact, to be perfectly honest, I have yet to see a cliché character in Armageddon. Every money-minded mercenary with a three word vocabulary I've met would have been cliché, had I not discovered they had personalities. I've run into a few of these gorgeous offenders and found that every one of them was significantly different.

- - Background story criticizing is somewhat silly, though. Unless you're an Imm or maybe a psionicist, you do not know the story. Maybe I said I was a warrior because my parents were killed, and I didn't want anyone else to suffer that way again. Perhaps I was lying. What if I am actually a raider, building myself up as charitable in your eyes so when I offer you a free escort to Red Storm you'll accept it?

- - I have often considered making a character with a short mdesc, speak using only the say command, and who tells tales that would make him seem like a cliché newbie character. Why? Well, I'll tell you why: so people that become jaded will assume I am a newbie. You'd be amazed how many dangerous risks and terrible errors in judgement someone will make for crossing IC and OOC opinions. For example, one of these mistakes is assuming when he invites you to go out hunting alone with him, he isn't a 20th day warrior with three raider friends sitting just outside the gates. I mentioned this idea to a couple people, and one said he and a friend already did it before.

- - I don't mean to come down hard on you, but criticizing what you personally perceive of other players' characters is very disrespectful. Even if the character isn't lying to you when they say their parents were murdered by raiders, it's not something to dwell on OOC. You're not going to get much enjoyment from a cruise if you spend the whole time griping about the drably-colored towels.

- - My advice to you is, don't sweat the small stuff. If someone's character doesn't appeal to you, be aloof ICly. After all, there are plenty of cliché people in life. Just treat these characters as a bland but acceptable part of the RP environment in the same way. However, show them the same respect OOCly you'd show someone who was more creative. You cannot have great RP unless you are respectful and forgiving of other RPers. Don't post stuff like this coming down upon other people's style.


 :arrow: p.s. - One side-note about the Gaj: It is NOWHERE as filthy as it was previously described. The floors aren't painted in vomit, and not all of the seats are covered in a combination of spilled liquor and rat piss. I have no idea where someone came up with the idea of making the Gaj dirtier for the entire rest of the RP world because it suited their fancy, but emoting doesn't make it so. The Gaj is a sports bar with an attached sleeping quarters and public cooking facilities. It is not some run-down dive in the middle of the 'Rinth that is somehow blessed because nothing evaporates in the endless, dry heat.

- - In addition, most filth in Zalanthas is DRY filth. That fact goes double for any place in the middle of a desert (i.e. the Gaj). Stop making the Gaj filthier by your imposement upon the game, you will not get noble characters to stop slumming there. Stop reiterating your anti-cleanliness propaganda in every thread you think you can fit it in. Yes, I have been to the Gaj lately, and yes I have seen the new room echoes. So far what I have not seen is a room echo of a rat slipping and sliding from one end of the Gaj to the other across a lake of filth.


Well, In an attempt to make a reply to that well thought out post, that will echo what most people will think in a way that won't be misinterpreted as a flame, here goes.

I'm sure the intention of this thread wasn't to flame. Criticise yes, flame no. Criticise has been taken to think of negatively, e.g. critics. I personally like ALL criticism, REGARDLESS of how it's written, whether it's written with care or as a flame. Whether or not I pay any attention is another matter. I'm sure the original poster and everyone else merely tried to offer some ways some people's RP could be improved, which IMO is good, despite the fact on whether or not their right.

Now onto the state of cleanliness in the Gaj.

My take on it is that compared to traders it is quite dirty. That it's where all the warriors, mercenaries, hunters, anyone goes. That it's got rats, spilled ale (from all those rough types) and generally not in a good state. However I'm sure some people in their enthusiasm might have gone a bit too far (especially if they're emoting that the floors are covered in bile, although maybe a lot of Bynners had thrown up?).

And I have seen a decided lack of nobles in there ever since I've been there, although if I did see a noble I ICly would think wow! what a great noble! unless of course I was playing a prissy character at which point I'd think numerous bad things about said noble.

John

  • Posts: 4240
People... Is this a Rant? Hmm... better read on.
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2002, 06:36:16 AM »
COuld an Imm delete this and edit the above post, I accidently quoted the entire previous post for no good reason. Sorry! (might want to enable the editing function on this board too).

Rindan

  • Posts: 2825
People... Is this a Rant? Hmm... better read on.
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2002, 07:58:37 AM »
First off, taking a dive down someone’s throat for offering up criticism is ridiculous.  I know that when I was first starting out I learned a great deal from the GDB because people were not afraid to offer up criticism.  Just because someone criticizes something doesn’t mean that you have to change your ways.  However, getting someone else’s perspective is certainly not a bad thing.  Telling newer people that a cliché is not as exciting as it is from an outsiders perspective as they might think it is, is not a bad thing.

Second, as far as the Gaj goes, the Gaj is a filthy place.  It is a sports bar, but it is a sports bar with minimal sanitation, and most likely one that does not bother to use a great deal of water cleaning (much less soap).  It is filled to the brim with commoners looking to get drunk after a hard days work, and as room echos indicate, puking on someone’s table as they are stumbling for the door is not a rare occurrence.  Rats drop from the ceiling, cockroaches are prevalent enough to warrant cockroach races, the meat is maggot ridden, drunks stumble out all the time, and the bartender doesn’t give two shits about cleaning anything, so those badasses don’t need to request their milk in a dirty glass because the dirty glass is the norm.  Is emoting that the floor is covered in a layer of vomit going too far?  Sure.  Is emoting stepping around vomit going too far?  Absolutely not, as room echos make it clear that puking is one of the preferred activities of the tavern.  I imagine that the place smells rather rank.  Whatever the case, anyone is free to drop in, but it isn’t a place where I would want go in wearing anything nice.

Personally, I want to be in the Gaj when a party of nobles and merchants are sitting at the table that gets the echo about a dwarf running into it and knocking it over.