Author Topic: People... Is this a Rant? Hmm... better read on.  (Read 6527 times)

John

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People... Is this a Rant? Hmm... better read on.
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2002, 09:59:43 AM »
Quote from: "Rindan"
the meat is maggot ridden

It is? Here i was thinking they served up maggots as a meal......what!? the aboriginals use to do it!

Sanvean

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You should be able to edit your post now
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2002, 11:53:30 AM »
I went through and made sure the permissions were consistent across the forum.

Avril

  • Posts: 123
People... Is this a Rant? Hmm... better read on.
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2002, 01:52:33 PM »
Quote
- - I have often considered making a character with a short mdesc, speak using only the say command, and who tells tales that would make him seem like a cliché newbie character. Why? Well, I'll tell you why: so people that become jaded will assume I am a newbie. You'd be amazed how many dangerous risks and terrible errors in judgement someone will make for crossing IC and OOC opinions. For example, one of these mistakes is assuming when he invites you to go out hunting alone with him, he isn't a 20th day warrior with three raider friends sitting just outside the gates. I mentioned this idea to a couple people, and one said he and a friend already did it before.


This strikes me as something that deserves a removal of Karma, as it essentially removes from the general tendency to be friendly towards newbies... Joining a clan, for instance, is something many people suggest to new players. I'm not sure how many merchant houses, noble houses or whatnot might never hire someone whose only comments of his own background are "My farm was burned down by gith, I ran away and came to Allanak, and I remember nothing of what happened in between." (Yes, this was an IC statement made by a character whom I briefly shared clans with) No background check took place before or after that very character was recruited, as from the recruiting player's OOC expectations, there was probably no background to speak of. Was it the hiring character's fault, then, that the character idiotically killed someone in the clan within a room full of VNPCs and used the quit command to get away? Was it the hiring character's fault, the hiring player's, or the fault of the player who abused OOC trust to gain his position in the clan? Realistically, the hiring character would have simply taken the killer for an untalented liar and overall taffer... You might say "well then, he ought to have behaved in a realistic manner". The problem is that acting in a realistic manner usually means treating most newbies' characters as petty swindlers or slight madmen, which often leads to ignoring or at the very least distrusting these characters. Well, crossing IC and OOC opinions to help a background-thin newbie along doesn't strike me as a terrible error of judgement, and it most certainly shouldn't be.

Bestatte

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People... Is this a Rant? Hmm... better read on.
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2002, 05:58:52 PM »
My character's background was a little vague, since it was my first one ever here. I wasn't familiar enough with the web manual to get into enough details to really give her a "life" before showing up in the game.

Fortunately during one long conversation with a certain someone (thanks, guy!) he helped me work in enough detail via AIM while our characters were talking in game that I was able to get a much better feel for her identity, her goals, and her reason for being there in the first place.

It wasn't anything particularly significant either. Just little things like "errr jeez can't believe you just asked what critter it was. I don't know what kind of critters there are, other than kanks, and I'm sure it wouldn't have been one of those!"

And so he listed a couple of possibilities appropriate for the situation and it turned out wonderfully.

EvilRoeSlade

  • Posts: 2657
RE: Newbies and raiding.
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2002, 06:43:31 PM »
I have to agree that this would only be a way for an experienced player to abuse the game.  If your going to be a raider, don't act OOCly for your character to profit ICly.  There are countless ways to trick people without pretending your a newbie.

There is a reason people tend to be nice to newbies, and give them a little bit of a break.  Its so that we can have new players.  Pretending to be a newbie, and degrading your RP in order to raid would only hurt the game.
Back from a long retirement

creeper386

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People... Is this a Rant? Hmm... better read on.
« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2002, 07:15:01 PM »
So people are saying within the last couple of posts, that if your character is acctually a commoner that hails from one of the farms around Allanak, and he his played correctly as someone not so knowledgable about the city or combat or anything else besides minute tasks... Should be punished...

Or if you play a character that is a raider but acts like a nice guy... Should be punished?

I think that you should be nice OOCly or mayhaps abit helpful ICly to characters that seem to be a newbie... but just because someone doesn't play a great person that knows everything about where he lives... Or the badass raider that makes sure everyone knows not to fuck with him... they shouldn't be punished.

And for the most part.... It's IC to say you had any background that you come up with even if thats not whats in your background...

Think I should make a kid character who had a fairly decent life... but goes about saying he had the most terrible life imaginable to get something from people...

Perhaps if someone went about PURPOSELY acting like a newbie... but then overall... how can you actually prove that it was an ooc thing and not how the character is? I personally can't fit EVERYTHING about the character into the history area to tell how he well think, how he would act, and include all of his history.... which can sometimes climb up to 16 lines just on what happened before he came into the game...


Oh well... I think OOCly you can't think that every not too bright characters are newbies... or all characters who don't have much to say about their history is a newbie... Assume the ones who act innocently... really screw up emotes and make mistakes that are OOC in nature instead of IC are newbies. If you go by what they tell you about their history... ICly they might want to hide what happen so don't tell much... And even the most skilled player could seem like a newbie that way...


Creeper,
The newbie that rambles and found out if you have characters that don't know alot they get much more benifits... And that people seem to think IC mistakes/stupidity = newbie.
21sters Unite!

  • Guest
Re: Sancho
« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2002, 07:34:31 PM »
Here I thought I made a pretty much end to the post that I said was beaten to death, but mister talks alot wants to revive the dead, thats fine by me.

Now it wasnt a flame, it was a comment on stuff Ive seen.

If your making yourself appear as a newbie by doing bland 'just say' statements then that is to no one's detriment but your own. Your attempt at trying to 'fool the players' into a false sense of your own person seems a waste to me, but I guess it does you good by allowing you to comment on what you've tricked outve people through your little experiment.

Maybe -you- should stop worrying about how people perceive people and stop taking offense to something that obviously struck your nerve. If it didnt apply to you, and you had no interest in the subject you wouldntve replied so appaledly.

And about the Gaj. Yes it is as filthy as I said, and that was an understatement. Just sitting in there for about 10 minutes you see at least 3 people vomit on the floor, people spill drinks up and down the bar, not to mention tables and floors, and then the constant stream of roaches and rats? Not to mention the dirt and filth dragged in by people onto the stools and seats that arnt ever to my knowledge cleaned. Whens the last time you saw someone mop up the floor, or the door close long enough to have the seats and stools cleaned up. I know I havent.

And that is the all-age appropriate version of the vileness that lurks in that place. I dont even want to get into some of the more adult oriented... diseases, that must occupy the ledges and unknown stains over the place.

Well I think I defended myself enough for now. If you wish to continue your assault on what I thought was just an explanation of commonly shared feelings feel free to send me a private message.

Jenred :x

EvilRoeSlade

  • Posts: 2657
I think your completely missing the point.
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2002, 08:48:43 PM »
I don't think either of the first two characters would be unnaceptable.  I just think that acting like a newbie to fool somebody into thinking you are OOCly, is hurting the game.

For most players, its pretty easy to tell when somebody is a newbie, or at least its pretty easy for people to speculate and label somebody as a newbie.  I agree that it is harder than most people would imagine to be completely sure.  I know somebody that has been playing for almost a year now, doesn't use caps, and is almost completely RPless.  I've known a spy that acted totally newbieish to get into a clan, and even requested to have his skills lowered in order to fool people.  He generally kept his emotes down to a minimum, said ICly foolish things that most people in game just wouldn't say... and when he was finally caught his RP suddenly sky-rocketed.  (Maybe I'm exaggerating a bit here, but it was a while ago and thats at least how it stood out in my mind).

I think degrading your RP, making your description any shorter than you would normally, or purposely falling into cliches just to trick people into going out hunting with you is bad.  NOT playing a friendly raider to trick people, or a bumbling farmer who's city knowledge is limited.
Back from a long retirement

House Rising Sun

  • Posts: 519
Got in late
« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2002, 11:51:03 PM »
This is what I get for reading posts late. But here's my take:

Motives, demeanor, background, and nature, are all the heart and soul of (my) characters. At least, I like to think so. Naturally, my first character was your typical dead family no memory calm and quiet hardass. But that's just because some of us come into the game not knowing enough about the world to say what our family does and where we're from.

However, right after that I played a serial killer. Then a sharp-tongued little bastard. But the absolute antithesis to a lot of the cliches that I've seen posted here was  the average joe, working to support his family. I actually found that role much more fun to play. It was harder, because I didn't spend 3/4 of my money. It was more casual, because he didn't have a "grudge against the world". It was easier to interact with people, because he wasn't quiet or solitary or any of that. It was even fun in that he wasn't interested in growing in rank or pay or prestige within his organization. All he wanted to do was make enough to support his family and endulge in the occassional drink. No adventure, no struggle to have fun with high-fantasy cliches. It all fell into his lap, because the role was natural.

I would recommend to anyone who hasn't tried it before, to play the guy with a lot of background that doesn't involve death or loss. Play someone natural, that you could see living in our world. I guarantee if you keep his/her goals in mind and act exactly how he would, it'll work out great.
Dig?

sancho

  • Posts: 65
Hmm, I believe you all missed the point
« Reply #34 on: September 28, 2002, 12:37:37 AM »
- - My post was not a flame. My point was that you are taking something which is completely unimporatant and are very likely making people feel bad in the process. In addition, you are stating an incorrect opinion as fact, because you don't like seeing nobles in the Gaj. If my original post and this one seem a bit blunt, please understand it is because I try to get right to the point.

- - To the first part, I laid out my post with the incorrect belief that it wouldn't be skimmed over. I was trying to get across that originality is something you perceive and that you do not know. The fact that you all dwell on it is hurting your RP experience. To further illustrate this point, I related an idea that popped in my head when I saw the typical way people try to trick people they perceive as newbies. This was terribly misinterpretted, in my opinion, since the point was to show an extreme example of how most people alter their RP based on how the perceive other players. I generally treat newbies as if they knew as much as seasonned players ICly, because my character could not possibly discern that kind of information. I will go so far as OOC help with commands, but I digress.

- - To the second part, the Gaj is filthy by comparison to the Trader's. That is not debated. The fact is, you can EASILY sit in the Gaj and remain clean. You can EASILY avoid being vomitted on or having things spilled. There are surfaces, the plain stone table being the first in my memory, which are described as being clean. The difference being that the table is describe as clean in the game, rather than by opinionated players. All but two of the room echos you listed are dry filth. Dry filth doesn't stain you. Dry filth can be cleared away by brushing it aside or a strong wind. Nothing you've said is new, nor does it refute anything I said.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - SUMMARY - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

- - Let me try reiterating myself and my two posts for people not reading. I try to keep my writing as brief and meaningful as possible, so I may come off as blunt. Concerning yourselves with originality which you can only perceive is silly, and will only serve to ruin the experience for you. Originality is not important, and talking about how much "clichés" bother you is just going to upset other players. That story I told was to illustrate how people fool themselves by use of an extreme example. The Gaj is dirty, not a sewer. Recall that it is the premier sports bar of Allanak, not a dive in the middle of the Rinth with a primative sewer pipe running into it. The room description and room echoes don't even begin to come close to depicting it as a place where every step you take is into vomit.

- - I posted because of the fact that I felt the thread was insulting. You have no way of knowing if a character is genuinely a cookie cutter character or just appears to be one.
quote]>rant status
You are currently ranting.

>rant off
You shut your damn mouth.[/quote]

"Always remember: An elf in need is a thief indeed."

~His Divine Sancho

Anonymous

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People... Is this a Rant? Hmm... better read on.
« Reply #35 on: September 28, 2002, 01:05:26 PM »
I don't even play yet, but here's my take on the whole thing.

1. Pretending to be a newbie by purposely messing up emotes, etc. is, in my opinion, an abuse of the game system in order to accomplish the ooc objective of fooling people so they'll give you IC benefits you probably don't really deserve. If you wanna fool people, fine, but do it in an IC manner i.e. lying or being really shy or really dumb or something.

2. Rather than bitching at newbies for playing cliche chars or bad RP'ing, SHOW them how to RP in this game by example. Don't use it as an excuse to treat them badly just because you as a player don't like their char concept. If your char has issues with badass orphan warriors, fine, but don't bring your personal prejudices into it. You can also talk to them ooc and help them flesh out their background, or refer them to a helper who has expertise in the subject, or somesuch. Just don't automatically assume hey he's a newbie, he must suck. (A lot of them do suck, but that's beside the point. :P)

3. It IS possible to play a cliche type char without making them a TOTAL cliche. Maybe the badass orphan warrior is allergic to kanks, or pees himself every time he sees a templar, or is on the run because he got some chick pregnant and her family keeps chasing after him trying to get them hitched. Maybe the drop-dead gorgeous chick speakth with a lithp. Maybe another drop-dead gorgeous chick is missing several teeth because an old lover got a bit too violent during...ermmm relations...and maybe she had to run away from him before he finished the job, which is why she's in wherever it is that she started out. Maybe she wears blah clothes or purposely mutilates herself or something so she'll be LESS attractive because she's learned that all beauty causes is problems.

Flame me if you want, I know I don't know shit but you know, I might actually USE some of that stuff in future. :)

Eternal

  • Posts: 828
People... Is this a Rant? Hmm... better read on.
« Reply #36 on: October 08, 2002, 10:06:36 AM »
Just touching on what the Guest said.

1.  I fully agree that long-term players who -obviously- abuse the system by wearing their newb clothes, using only say, are hurting the game.  They're playing far below their abilities and afaik that's a violation of Trust (read Karma).  Especially if said players are playing anything out of the ordinary (read magicky,psychicy,racy)... but that rarely happens, imo.

2.  LEAD BY EXAMPLE!  I really can't emphasize this enough.  It's a common thread in my posts both on the old gdb and this one.  You don't like something ic?  Well, this is a dynamic world and you -do- have a chance to change it.  Newbies are commonly stunned when they meet a veteran player who emotes beautifully and makes them feel like a character in a well-writtten novel.  It truly changes the perceptions of h'n's gamers (and MUDders) who join us for the first few times.  I'm proud to admit that I'm always learning new techniques for emoting and whatnot after no few # of years spent here.  I was a newbie once, got stuck in a tent, too!

3.  Cliche's without the cliche.  Many of my characters are praised by other players (and occasionally staff which makes me very, very warm inside) for their complexity.  That said, on first glance they may often seem cliche.  The Hard Nosed Templar, The Silver Tongued Merchant, The Thrice-Damned Elementalist... hell, even the sneaky elf con-artists and assassins (which tend to be personal favorites).  Remember that a character is like an onion, many layers waiting to be peeled away to revel a new depth.  That's what almost all fantasy novels strive to accomplish (Dune did, too... Frank Herbert is a master.) and what the more successful ones do.

Lord Templar Hard Nose gladly welcomes all newbies to the fold, and remember, it's very, very wise to donate to your local war effort.