Exotic?

[wizturbo]

My point is simple, if there are 'logical reasons' for sorcerors and mindbenders to exist in Zalanthas I'm fairly certain that someone having a lighter skin tone can be explained with far less difficulty.

That and knowledge of Zalanthas genetic history is not something readily available.  For all we know, the defiling magicks of the dragon could have caused a vast amount of people's skin color to lose its darken hue.  Drinking Vivaduean created water primarily might effect genetics to lighten or darken skin color.

There are countless possibilities.  Now, if the immortals wanted to limit this discussion and state in the documention that light colored skin is extremely irregular, or that it is only possible due to genetic mutation or a very long line of people staying out of the sun (nobility perhaps) thats fine.  But as it stands now, from my understanding, color of skin is pretty much up for grabs.

[Larrath]

This is how I personally view skin colors.  Fair skin is, due to its rarity and the statement it holds (I don't have to be in the sun all day), a very attractive feature, much like plumpness in a hunger-stricken country (except, of course, that one is at least partially genetic and the other is not).

Because of this, I believe that light skin will be kept as a trait for some people, much like blue eyes or flowing blonde hair or whatever else those crazy f-mes will think about next.  Maybe small, perky noses and unnaturally deep mouths, but I digress.

About magickers and mindbenders in RL, or how they are connected to logic...in order to avoid a very long debate, I will simply say this.
Name one 'logical reason' that mindbenders do not exist in the real world.

True, I have never seen a man whose eyes squirt mineral water whether he is frightened, but this does not mean that they do not exist.

I personally DO believe that maintaining as much realism in Zalanthas as possible is something that should be strived for.  If I ever manage to get past the sea of silt, or wherever else that's on the corner of the Known World, I expect to see some bigass mountains that are blocking off a shitload of rainclouds, or at least a really big funnel that leads into the Dragon Temple in Allanak.

Lighter skin in the North and darker in the Sotuh is not a rule, it is a guideline, and a very good one at that.  I personally like being able to, as a Tor Academy student (which I am not), laugh at some miserable punk who just got his face mashed by a six year old girl with pigtails and no thumbs, and say that he must have some Northern blood in his veins and that he sucks and that he should go hug a really big pillar of wood that has some leaves over it or at least make sweet love to a nearby duskhorn.

It also feels right and believeable, to me, that some features are consistent.  People with freckles are more likely to get sunburn, and they will get it faster.
Thus:  People with freckles will either be Merchants/Nobles or they will be very miserable people.  People who go out in the sun...nomads, rangers of all sorts, scavengers, twinks...those people _should_ be darker.

This also gives the Nobility something to lift their noses to.  "Ha, you and your dark skins".

Sure, we don't have the genetic history readily available, and maybe Tektolnes put something in the water that steals melanin from people in order to convert it into sand (can't have too much of that!), or some defiling magick, sure.  But do we WANT to?

I see very much that we could lose and nothing that can truly be gained from this.  If you _really_ want to be a white-skinned ranger, go ahead, just don't forget that unless you have a mutation (white melanin?), you will probably not handle the sun as well as others.

Either way, I have never seen a 'regular' color skinned character being regarded as a freak, unless it was either extremely dark or extremely light, and even then it is rare.

[EvilRoeSlade]

My point is simple, if there are 'logical reasons' for sorcerors and mindbenders to exist in Zalanthas I'm fairly certain that someone having a lighter skin tone can be explained with far less difficulty.

That and knowledge of Zalanthas genetic history is not something readily available.  For all we know, the defiling magicks of the dragon could have caused a vast amount of people's skin color to lose its darken hue.  Drinking Vivaduean created water primarily might effect genetics to lighten or darken skin color.

We could also say that whira's unrest stems from random causes and occasionally results in "Reverse-gravity days."  But I don't see why we should do either.

Furthermore, the documentation is there to tell how Zalanthas is different from earth.  Not how it is the same.  So in this case I don't think its much of a stretch to assume that it is the same.

[Carnage]

Who gives a shit?

Why don't brand new bone weapons shatter apart when they hit someone's armor hard? How can kanks exist? If Tektolnes is so powerful, why doesn't he just bury Tuluk? How can hairless animals with smooth and supple hides exist?

Just suspend your disbelief and play the damn game instead of overanalyzing everything.

[Larrath]

1) Very sturdy bones.
2) You see, when an ant and a half-giant love each other very much...
3) Tektolnes and Muk Utep are one and the same.
4) They wear sunscreen.

[EvilRoeSlade]

Why don't brand new bone weapons shatter apart when they hit someone's armor hard?

I imagine because the code isn't advanced enough.  Skin tone needs no code.

How can kanks exist?

Kanks exist because they were adopted from the Dark Sun universe.  I can live with that.

If Tektolnes is so powerful, why doesn't he just bury Tuluk?

I'm sure that the staff has created a reason for something as important as that, even if they haven't bothered to tell you.

I can't find a ready explanation for that, but it doesn't bother me as much because it doesn't affect my roleplay.

I give a shit.  If you do not, I wholeheartedly encourage you not to post.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

If Tektolnes is so powerful, why doesn't he just bury Tuluk?

One might consider Muk Utup.

[jhunter]

I can't find a ready explanation for that, but it doesn't bother me as much because it doesn't affect my roleplay.

So...how is this any different than the color...of SOMEONE ELSES skin?


Why should that affect your roleplay either?

I have to say I'm with Carnage on this one...let people make their pcs as long as it's within the boundaries of the docs...leave it alone.

It's not one players fault because a few others happened to have created a pc with a similiar skin tone, nose, hair,lips race whatever to one that's already in game.

And fuck...it would be soooooooo damned boring if everyone fit one exact cookie-cutter look.

[EvilRoeSlade]

So...how is this any different than the color...of SOMEONE ELSES skin?

I'll refer you to the post before that one.  It affects my role-play because it cancels out any logical deductions I might make regarding peoples region of birth, among other things.

It's not one players fault because a few others happened to have created a pc with a similiar skin tone, nose, hair,lips race whatever to one that's already in game.

I'm not suggesting that we knock karma off of everyone who does this.  All I want is an established, well-known norm.

And fuck...it would be soooooooo damned boring if everyone fit one exact cookie-cutter look.

If you think that your character can be unique because he has skin tone X, then I've got news for you.  It's already been done.  You'll have to be more creative than that.

[Sir Diealot]

I can't find a ready explanation for that, but it doesn't bother me as much because it doesn't affect my roleplay.

So...how is this any different than the color...of SOMEONE ELSES skin?


Why should that affect your roleplay either?
quote]

Because racism is a bitch..and in a harsh world where you can't trust anyone..well, skin color is yet another factor you can Rp with and play.. Also, I agree with ERS about the logic + scifi = good game/story. Otherwise, typing kill gortok could really mean
'contact Muk Utep; psi YOU SUXXORZ MY DIXXORZ'
and water could really dehydrate you when you drink it..or fill you up..or make you turn into a purple balloon cow. (normal, natural water, not vivy water)

[jhunter]

I'll refer you to the post before that one. It affects my role-play because it cancels out any logical deductions I might make regarding peoples region of birth, among other things.

With all the mutations in Arm I think this isn't relavent, there isn't really much of a norm and there wouldn't be with all the mutations...you'd be a better detective than Sherlock Holmes with a team of forensics and DNA specialists to be able to make any sort of logical deductions about people's region of birth, especially based on something like skin tone or color.

Yes, if Zalanthas was like Earth and mutations weren't that common I could see your point...but in a world ridden with mutations and such...it just makes no sense that there would be this expected norm.

[jhunter]

Because racism is a bitch..and in a harsh world where you can't trust anyone..well, skin color is yet another factor you can Rp with and play.. Also, I agree with ERS about the logic + scifi = good game/story. Otherwise, typing kill gortok could really mean
'contact Muk Utep; psi YOU SUXXORZ MY DIXXORZ'
and water could really dehydrate you when you drink it..or fill you up..or make you turn into a purple balloon cow. (normal, natural water, not vivy water)

And your point is?

There is plenty of racism in Arm...and none of it is based on skin tone or color.


There is logic behind this already, MUTATIONS.

They are common enough I can walk down any road in Tuluk and see obvious mutations...not to mention that there are probably many not so obvious ones.

[EvilRoeSlade]

There is logic behind this already, MUTATIONS.

At best, that's a half-assed explanation.  All it says in the helpfile on humans is that -faintly- grayish or bluish skin tones are possible mutations.  It says that human skin tones vary widely, but guess what?  They vary widely on earth also, and yet they all have regional basis to them.  The only difference I see between Zalanthian humans and earth humans is that there is a greater tendency towards mutations.  However, the majority of humans are still unmutated, and furthermore, the majority of mutated humans probably possess mutations unrelated to their skin tone.

Furthermore, even mutations are hereditary.  There once was a post on the message board of Allanak mentioning a four-armed boy, who happens to have a four-armed father as an NPC.  Mutations are consistent with the genetic rules of mutations in real life, they aren't an excuse to just have any damn skin tone you want and completely ignore that there might be a strong regional tendency towards a specific skin tone.

They are common enough I can walk down any road in Tuluk and see obvious mutations...not to mention that there are probably many not so obvious ones.

NPCs represent exceptional citizens of a particular city-state.  They aren't proportionate to the norm.  You can't say that there are 10 muls in Red Storm, and 40 other NPCs, and so one out of five residents of Red Storm is a mul.

[jhunter]

However, the majority of humans are still unmutated, and furthermore, the majority of mutated humans probably possess mutations unrelated to their skin tone.

At most that's a half-assed explanation...you've not a shred of evidence to prove that the majority of mutated humans posses mutations unrelated to skin tone.

As I stated...and this is FACT, not all mutations that occur in nature are obvious.

NPCs represent exceptional citizens of a particular city-state. They aren't proportionate to the norm. You can't say that there are 10 muls in Red Storm, and 40 other NPCs, and so one out of five residents of Red Storm is a mul.

Do they? Show me where this is stated and I'll have no problem accepting that as fact.

Also...if this is so...then it should also be changed...pcs are supposed to be comformed to certain norms...then why not the coded npc populations as well to more accurately display norms?

[EvilRoeSlade]

At most that's a half-assed explanation...you've not a shred of evidence to prove that the majority of mutated humans posses mutations unrelated to skin tone.

It's implicit.  A mutation is random, otherwise it's merely a gene and not a mutation.  Due to the wide variety of possible mutations, any single mutation would have to be a minority when compared to all the others.

Do they? Show me where this is stated and I'll have no problem accepting that as fact.

Savak posted it on the GDB, it isn't in the documentation.

But it's also implicit.  The vast majority of those living in Allanak are slaves.  However, I'd say that the majority of the NPCs are either merchants or soldiers, both of which are a middle-class minority.

Obviously there are valid game reasons for this.  If there were 50 slave NPCs in Allanak, 2 soldier NPCs, and 2 merchants, then the player-base would be very unhappy and thieves and killers would run rampant.

And no, players do not have to conform to the majority.  I doubt very much the staff starts rejecting your applications because you're playing too many free commoners and not enough slaves.

[jhunter]

Eons of life on Zalanthas has warped the human appearance enough so that physical anomalies are somewhat commonplace: webbed fingers or toes, hairlessness, pointed ears, long or short limbs, or skin tones in the faint blues or greys are all possible mutations upon the human form.

In the documentation...it states "that physical anomalies are somewhat commonplace".

It also includes skin tone in this.

You have no arguement to this..unless the imms have recinded what's already in the documentation somewhere.

Your arguement simply doesn't hold water bud.

It's implicit. A mutation is random, otherwise it's merely a gene and not a mutation. Due to the wide variety of possible mutations, any single mutation would have to be a minority when compared to all the others.

Want to reconsider your reasoning that they  are in the minority?

Also, as you yourself stated...most mutations are passed on...which would mean many could have the same or similar mutations.

[Barzalene]

Melanoma deficiency. There you go. A reason. Now go play and have fun.

[EvilRoeSlade]

In the documentation...it states "that physical anomalies are somewhat commonplace".

It also includes skin tone in this.

If you were actually reading my arguements, you would know that I am aware of what it says and have mentioned it in this discussion.  It is clear to me that you are not.  Goodbye.

[jhunter]

Actually ERS, I can find nowhere that you stated anything other than contradicting specifically what is says in the docs...clearly...in every case I read that you brought the docs up...you were stating the contrary.

The documentation states that pale colors are possible. It doesn't say that they are common.

Eons of life on Zalanthas has warped the human appearance enough so that physical anomalies are somewhat commonplace: webbed fingers or toes, hairlessness, pointed ears, long or short limbs, or skin tones in the faint blues or greys are all possible mutations upon the human form.

[/b]

[Cenghiz]

Your char doesn't want to trust the pale? Let him not. He wants to kill the pale.. Good. But you have NO right to tell me what I'm going to create. I even created an albino here. Opened albino in an encyclopedia and wrote down some similar description. And covered as much body parts of me as I could, then. Yes, an albino would die, in at most ten years. But I wanted that, then I had a mail; "your char has been approved."...

[EvilRoeSlade]

I don't presume to tell you what you have a right to play, as I have continually said.  I just desire for there to be a norm for people to fall back on, since some people actually like to play the norm.  If having a norm makes some people give thought to their skin tone beyond picking a color randomly, that's an added bonus.

[spawnloser]

For those that need clarification on what ERS has been saying, of all the "anomolies," why would every pale person have that anomoly?  Why not jet purple, or fuscia for fuck's sake?  Why does it have to be pale?  Why is everyone else, their brother and sister, four cousins and kank all pale?  Why not some other type of mutation, if it is one?

[Callisto]

Why is everyone else, their brother and sister, four cousins and kank all pale?

I'll take a leap here and say.... because that's what some people enjoy?

[spawnloser]

If everyone enjoyed being a twink, would that make it right?

[EvilRoeSlade]

I never spoke against pale people, because pale people are not my issue.  I even suggested that the majority of Tulukis might all have fair skin and hair.

I do agree with Spawnloser though, and will add one thing.

Wouldn't you like playing a pale character better if your character was truly exotic, instead of identical to everybody else?