Author Topic: Looking for RP feedback (and thanks Delirium)  (Read 4237 times)

Akaramu

  • Posts: 6751
Looking for RP feedback (and thanks Delirium)
« on: January 15, 2004, 07:28:05 AM »
Alright... I have been playing for about 2 weeks now, and not received any feedback whatsoever about my actual roleplay (hints to read certain helpfiles etcetera dont count).

In a way this is good, as apparently no one had any complaints about me. On the other hand, I miss some feedback help to enhance my roleplay and make it more vivid / indepth. I know HELP_EMOTE almost by heart, but how do I make my character more plausible? What are words I could use that I still miss in my english vocabulary?

I heard 60% of all players have review on and that the imms are too busy to look much into the logs... I prefer to have review off, I'd feel stalked otherwise. Besides, I doubt anyone knows my roleplay better than my PC's friends.

So, I'd like to ask the handfull of people who know who I am IC (sneaky people, you know who you are as well) if they could drop me a PM once in awhile with some comments about my actual roleplay (not typos, helpfiles and the like.)

Pretty please?   8)

Also, thanks to Delirium for having been there during my first couple hours, you are the reason I'm still playing, and armaddicted.

(This is where everyone tells Delirium how great she is.)

p.s. If this was the wrong board again, I apologize. Too lazy to copy / paste elsewhere.  :P

Carnage

  • Posting Privileges Revoked
  • Posts: 1766
Looking for RP feedback (and thanks Delirium)
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2004, 09:30:02 AM »
The only time I really got any feedback was when I was in a big position in an organization and the clan imm was usually watching me. When I sent in my weekly update, I'd say certain things I was doing and why. I'm not going to get into specifics as some of it was related to the character, but generally I got feedback along the lines of "I've noticed and really liked this idea" and that was it.

I've been playing for about three or so years and that was the only feedback I ever got, despite having the review flag on for about a year or so when I first started out.
Carnage
"We pay for and maintain the GDB for players of ArmageddonMUD, seeing as
how you no longer play we would prefer it if you not post anymore.

Regards,
-the Shade of Nessalin"

I'M ONLY TAKING A BREAK NESSALIN, I SWEAR!

Delirium

  • Helper
  • Posts: 11967
Looking for RP feedback (and thanks Delirium)
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2004, 12:03:37 PM »
*grin* You're welcome.
"There are no happy endings, because nothing ends." - Schmendrick

gfair

  • Posts: 789
Weekly summary
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2004, 02:50:36 AM »
I've been trying out the weekly summary email (though I don't go on a weekly basis, I go on the amount of content being sufficient to warrant sending it to the clan IMMs).

I have no idea what the Clan IMMs would do with it, but to me it seems that if they read these summaries, they get a good idea of what you are up to, what you are into.  When IMMs don't have all day long to follow you around, a weekly summary can quickly get them up to speed.

So try that Akaramu, and possibly request RP feedback at the beginning of that summary.

Akaramu

  • Posts: 6751
Looking for RP feedback (and thanks Delirium)
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2004, 10:35:31 AM »
Hmmm. Tell me about that weekly summary email. What should it contain, approximately?

UnderSeven

  • Posts: 1440
Looking for RP feedback (and thanks Delirium)
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2004, 10:44:50 AM »
IMO the imms are pretty busy with the game and sending them emails should usually have a point.  In the case of weekly summery's I don't think they should be done unles you're a clan pc leader with something they actually would need to sift through OR if something actually happened that they should see.  I'll give some examples.  Say your char is working on something big and you want the staff to be aware, that's a good reason to send them emails, but even though you should try not to spam their box too much.  Another instance would be a pc death or kill, I've heard they appreciate to get emails detailing what and why it happened.  Other than that I think sending in emails to the imms just for the sake of them knowing that X hunter went and killed x tregil emoting heavily about it the whole time, for the sheer sake fo getting rp feedback is a pretty poor idea.  If you want rp feedback you should probably have a specific instance you were unsure of at LEAST.

Bestatte

  • Posting Privileges Revoked
  • Posts: 2861
Looking for RP feedback (and thanks Delirium)
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2004, 10:59:49 AM »
I don't know if this will help, but here's some examples of times I'd e-mail for feedback:

1) If I'm playing a role that is completely new to me and I simply want to know how I'm doing with it. I'd give it at least a RL week of playing the character since there's always a settling in period. Then I'd just send to MUD or the Clan IMM (if there is one) or both and say something like - This is a new role for me and I'd like to know if I'm RPing realistically or if you have any suggestions for me to improve it. And then accept the answer and work with it, whatever it is.

2) If my character is working on a new project, I would let the clan imm (or mud or both) know the purpose of the project and what I hope will be the process in completing it. Not in too much detail since so many variables can change the process.

3) If my character is working on creating something that doesn't currently exist in the game. One of my characters was heavy-duty into the idea of creating a line of specialty luxury soaps. I sent a note letting my clan imm know of my character's interest. Then I gathered the ingredients I felt were appropriate. Then I RPed creating the item, copied the scrollback, and submitted it along with a formal submission entry for a new item.

4) If my character dies and I'm unclear as to why, or if I feel there might be some questionable activity involving her death. This is a tricky one, and you really have to try to remain objective. I can't claim to always be objective, but I try, and hopefully the attempt is good enough. The best way to do this (in my opinion!!!) is to copy the buffer of the death and the scene that directly leads up to the death (or log it if you do that - I don't). Send it along with a short paragraph asking simply - "I feel there might have been something inappropriate in this RP and would like to know if this was a legit death."

I did this, and received a note from Savak saying only "It was legit." And I was satisfied completely with that answer. I don't necessarily want to know the details, or how he found out, and even if it wasn't legit I wouldn't necessarily want to know the whys and wherefores (though being a curious human creature of COURSE I'd want to know - but I have no need to know and have no problem not knowing). I didn't ask because I wanted to shout "Unfair!" I asked because -if- it wasn't a legit death, then the person who killed my character might need to be instructed to behave more appropriately next time. And if it -was- a legit death, then it would make me feel all warm and cozy knowing that I provided some manner of RP to cause another character to kill mine, and that's always a good thing :)

ashjpd

  • Posts: 362
Okay...
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2004, 11:27:03 AM »
Alright, I don't really haev time to read all those other posts, but I think I can help you out. Alright, with most of my characters, I had almost no feedback what soever, ever. Immortals might be watching, you never know. Also, I think it helps if you have your objective there, that is how they really start paying attention to you. It was the coolest thing, my dwarf's focus was prettty nice and he was in a house. I got replies almost everytime I logged on. It was very cool. On helping me on my roleplaying skills and just saying that I was doing a good job. One other thing was that I was helping a newb, which the immortal said was very good that I was patient with him, dieing within the two hour limit, running around the city bleeding to death, saying that he died and all.  :)
uppers.

Angela Christine

  • Posts: 6595
Looking for RP feedback (and thanks Delirium)
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2004, 08:37:22 PM »
I've recieved occasional feedback even though I've never had the review flag on.  (Like Akaramu, having it on would freak me out a little, I think, because whenever I try a karma option it freaks me out).  

An option you might think about is using your objective to transmit information to the staff without emails.  

change objective I am trying to make enough money to buy a kank.

change objective I am trying to make 300 sid so I can join the 'byn.

change objective I am trying to get on Templar Hardass's good side, for neferious purposes

change objective I would appreciate any rp tips or feedback, as I've never played a pickpocket before

change objective Am I crafting too much?  I'd appreciate any RP tips or feedback.

Unlike review, your objective lets you focus exactly what it is you want feedback on, and you can change it based on what you are doing.  It can also be used as a quick and dirty way to explain why you are doing something that doesn't mesh with your background, like sucking up to Templar Hardass, and having it in your objective might get his clan imm interested enough to keep an eye on you or inquire further as to what your neferious purposes are.

It is sort of half-way between an email and simply using the review flag.


AC
Treat the other man's faith gently; it is all he has to believe with."     Henry S. Haskins

gfair

  • Posts: 789
Weekly Summary
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2004, 09:13:28 PM »
My character is not a leader, but nonetheless is involved in interesting play, so I send in summaries.  One of the clan IMMs expressed interest in it once, but it was minimal feedback.

As for whether to get it or not, the staff get a lot of email that they archive having never read, at least from what I know, and a weekly summary is much easier for them to keep up with various plots if they choose to read it than any other means I know of, so I do it.

In the weekly summary I include major events, things that tend to dominate your memory for the past few days.  It could be a promotion, an attack, interesting events, relationships with significant PCs, and major thoughts on events that have a significant impact on the PC.  There is lots more one could include, but I try to balance a concise summary with some specific details.

It's up to you what to put in, but it's a summary.  I don't send them every week, I send them when there are sufficient, interesting events to talk about.

Carnage

  • Posting Privileges Revoked
  • Posts: 1766
Looking for RP feedback (and thanks Delirium)
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2004, 11:58:47 PM »
Quote
Other than that I think sending in emails to the imms just for the sake of them knowing that X hunter went and killed x tregil emoting heavily about it the whole time, for the sheer sake fo getting rp feedback is a pretty poor idea. If you want rp feedback you should probably have a specific instance you were unsure of at LEAST.


I had some sort of long-winded post I was typing up this morning, then said screw it since I didn't feel it expressed what I thought. But this part and Underseven's whole post says it well.
Carnage
"We pay for and maintain the GDB for players of ArmageddonMUD, seeing as
how you no longer play we would prefer it if you not post anymore.

Regards,
-the Shade of Nessalin"

I'M ONLY TAKING A BREAK NESSALIN, I SWEAR!

Quo

  • Posts: 98
Looking for RP feedback (and thanks Delirium)
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2004, 02:02:46 PM »
Hm.... difficult take. I am certain that I don't know your char, but I remember my own start on Armageddon. So my answer can only be rather generic, and I'll have to apologize beforehand if it turns out a bit 'me'-centric.

If I think of myself, I tend to be rather certain that after two weeks, you probably haven't reached the peak of your roleplaying abilities within the environment Armageddon offers to us. You were writing 'hints to read certain help files don't count'. Unless they were all about command syntax, I tend to disagree. If you're getting hints to read certain helpfiles,  most of them detailling out aspects of the world, and clarifying assumptions that you might have done wrong, they're a strong indication that someone might have been disagreeing with how you were handling/rping a situation, but cared enough to let you know and give you a chance to correct it yourself. To me, it has helped a lot to discuss that kind of 'concept' questions over ooc channels, as long as it didn't turn to ic-sensitive information. Nowadays there are official helpers, and I have found those I contacted (and didn't know before) to be wonderfully supportive, responsive, and very easy on the asker. You know who you are, - my thanks to you all!
So one advice I would give you or anyone who is uncertain if his take on a situation, or a command is within reason - please ask. The helpers are a wonderful idea, and I am sure that by asking them one can reduce in-game ooc a lot, making the environment an even more rewarding experience for everyone. Just remember in your question that they're probably playing, too. I'd try to avoid as much detail about my own char or ic affairs as possible, and if I need to give ic-sensitive information I ask beforehand how much the person I'm asking would feel comfortable with.

I won't labour on how you should stay within what would make reason to your char rather than the desires of the player, since that is probably what led you here anyway.
You didn't tell about your previous roleplaying experience, so I can't guess on that. Depending on previous experiences there are probably different aspects of this world that will be more 'new' to you than others. For example someone with a mushing background may be playing their char and the surroundings very detailled, but have to adapt to know where code kicks in, limiting their emoting while someone with a 'normal' mud background will need time to adjust to the liberties about his char and the surroundings this environment is allowing.
I came from a 'rp-encouraging' LP-mud, so my learning curve was a series of relevations I had when observing other players in action, be it with my char or 'around'. I've kept a series of brief logs of some of these scenes that made something 'klick' for me. While I can't share those, I'll give a list of the aspects of the game they were outlining to me. Please bear in mind that I'm poking on my RP-ing deficits here, not yours ;-)
    [*] Talkin in the words of the char rather than just 'summarizing' the message said from an player perspective.
    This is something that at least to me, came slowly, and I probably still don't have it. By not giving the entire information in a single sentence, not only do others get a hook to join and turn it into a full-fledged little scene, also your char turns a lot more 'real' to them. No real need to give a log here, I'm sure everyone will meet wonderful examples for this in his play. I'm mentioning it since it was new to me, and realizing the difference it made helped me a lot.
    [*] Use your environment, part 1: Rooms.
    All these description are there for one reason: letting you imagine the place so your char can act within it. Starting with features of the surroundings mirrored in the chars emotions, actions and words, I have been amazed how much 'reality' a fleshed out detail can add if a char is consistent about it. I have witnessed many occasions where group roleplay or just one char defined the features of a place to intriguing detail, without assuming anything inappropriate. It seems mostly a matter of reading among the lines of the room description, and certainly took a bit of time to get used to the 'feel' of a place before attempting it myself. Look out for when other chars are extending the world in their play, and find out what this means to you. Please try to keep in mind that every room has a dimension, and all people or items have their place and direction in it. Some of the best roleplayers I met simply managed to maintain a real presence there. By letting others know where your place in the set is, you allow them to incorporate you into their play without feeling awkward about how to approach you.
    [*] Use your environment, part 2: NPCs
    While in theory I knew that they were part of the world and just as alive as my char, in the beginning I found it very difficult to treat them appropriately. Not because I distregarded them, but I had no idea what might have been appropriate. So I uneasily avoided interacting with them. My first interactions with NPCs were probably looking at them, nodding to them, asking them something, and then being hit by the blank void since they wouldn't respond. In the beginning, it had been others that brought them to life for me, and I'm forever grateful to them.
    There's two sides to this aspect, I think. The technical for me was to learn how to make an npc come to life by mirroring his actions or details about him in my own emotes. The roleplaying aspect was that I have been forever uncertain as to what kind of reactions I would have the liberty to impose upon the NPC, and which I wouldn't. The subject alone would merit a thread of its own, and probably has, in the past. To sum my own ideas and experience about it, if you don't know an NPC, be careful. Every NPC has a background and history of his own, that you probably don't know. If there is anything you assume, it may be a good idea to stay very close to the documentation unless you know different. If you are as uncertain as I am, ask someone who knows if what you have in mind is appropriate. Mailing the account with such a question wouldn't be out of order I think. Or you could ask a helper as well, unless that is bordering on ic/ooc mixup.
    [*] Use your environment, part 3: VNPCs
    They're your friend, rp-wise, even if they nick the 'sid off your pockets and push you in their hurried passing.
    They can be livings of any size, from a row of humble little bugs your char is watching idly as they proceed to caravan the crumbs under your table away to a virtual fruit-vendor yelling at you for knocking his stall over. In two weeks of playing Armageddon you may not feel ready to incorporate them actively into your play yet, at least I didn't until I had seen many encouraging examples and tried for myself when (I thought) I was alone.
    But, as with all aspects of role-play, watch out for others and try to find out what makes such a scene convincing - or what breaks it.
    [*]  Use your environment, part 4: consistent VNPCs
    I had been in awe by a player who made an entire family of his char come to life for me. All in their appropriate places, with a schedule and relations to each other, different reactions on my char, an entire, complex network of people all brought to life through one char.
    These scenes gave me an entirely new view on the complexity of my surroundings on Armageddon. I'm still in awe when reading these gems. I had not imagined it possible to flesh out virtual beings into such a detailled life. If you're making up VNPCs your char has more contact with, consider writing a background for them and a description, and ask your friendly neighbourhood imm or the account to approve them like you would with a char.
    [*] A generic thing: Timing. A scene is defined by the 'time passing' as much as the visible actions. This might best be seen by rereading some logs that mirror things happening slowly. Without the sense of time that went with playing, often a log is unable to repeat the experience that came with 'living' through the scene. The same goes for the in-char reactions. Often a sparse reaction at the right time will add a lot more to the scene than an elaborate but slightly misplaced emote. This I found a difficult art, and some of the most 'real' chars I have met had mastered this to perfection.
    [*] another generic thing: Space. I couldn't mention time without mentioning space ;) even though I addressed it in my ramblings about 'rooms' already. Within a single room (from a code-pov), an entire plot can take place, and I have seen wonderful examples of this.
    [*] state - By referring previous actions and emotions, you can add to the feel of reality for yourself and others. My favourite example for this is a certain surmac worn by a certain lanky guy. That char had the magic of presence that pulled me back into the game and my own char even when I had been completely unaligned, tired and idling.
    Pieces of your clothing or equipment have the power of portraying your char and the environment, especially if they're not just included in random emotes or when there is a need to include them because are referenced by a command you used. Clothing can be adjusted, shift, readjusted, taken off, placed aside, atop something else, etc. Through that wonderful drop <desc> command you can even use those things to outline your chars position in the room, occupation and a lot more.
    [*] last - imagination. Once you feel comfortable in this world, this is your only limit. I am starting to understand (not yet to do actively myself) that taking an active role in the game does not have to mean playing a leader role, or a special character. Anyone can give the 'hooks' with his rp to allow others to join in, from a brief impromptu scene to a long range focus.
    [/list] So what is the point of my lenghty rambling? I cannot comment on your roleplay, but I hope that depending on how you percieve your char and his contribution to the game, you'll easily spot something from the list above to work on. I for myself am not 'there' yet.
    code]
               .::7777::-.
              /:'////' `::>/|/
           .',  ||||   `/( e\
       -==~-'`-Xm````-mr' `-_\    Join the Save the Gurth campaign! [/code]

    Carnage

    • Posting Privileges Revoked
    • Posts: 1766
    Looking for RP feedback (and thanks Delirium)
    « Reply #12 on: January 18, 2004, 07:55:33 PM »
    Can we get this thread archived, just for Quo's response?
    Carnage
    "We pay for and maintain the GDB for players of ArmageddonMUD, seeing as
    how you no longer play we would prefer it if you not post anymore.

    Regards,
    -the Shade of Nessalin"

    I'M ONLY TAKING A BREAK NESSALIN, I SWEAR!

    Sanvean

    • Posts: 2720
      • My Website
    Looking for RP feedback (and thanks Delirium)
    « Reply #13 on: January 18, 2004, 09:19:32 PM »
    You betcha.