Author Topic: Starting equipment.  (Read 4489 times)

Sephiroto

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Starting equipment.
« on: October 22, 2002, 12:25:25 AM »
It seems illogical that a new char, who has lived doing every day functions before being taken over by the player, would start off with some equipment more relevant to their class.  I mean, as far as I know, everyone (normal) starts out with the same o' same o.  If your new char has a background in militairy, he should atleast start with some type of weapon and a meager set of armor.  And a more shady character, a filthy looking cloak.  You know,whatever...just thought it would be nice.

Just my 2 sid.

Angela Christine

  • Posts: 6595
Re: Starting equipment.
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2002, 12:52:35 AM »
Quote from: "Sephiroto"
It seems illogical that a new char, who has lived doing every day functions before being taken over by the player, would start off with some equipment more relevant to their class.  I mean, as far as I know, everyone (normal) starts out with the same o' same o.  If your new char has a background in militairy, he should atleast start with some type of weapon and a meager set of armor.  And a more shady character, a filthy looking cloak.  


That is what your starting money if for.  The starting gear is just so you aren't running around naked while you do your shopping, but basically you are dressed like the average NPC from your town.

Rather than giving everyone an obsidian shortsword and mekkillot hide pants, they give everyone basic clothing and about 1000 sid.  If they gave everyone more valuable armor, obviously they would reduce the starting sid to like 100 sid, which would suck if you didn't want armor.  For a ranger to be good at rangering he is going to need some light armor and a bow, but many people that take the ranger guild don't want to be good at rangering, they want to be crafters, guards or drunkards.  Not everyone who takes the warrior guild wants to be a fighter, you might want to be a foppish lacky, but there isnt't a foppish lacky guild.  Plenty of social characters are techniquely from the pickpocket guild, but they are not poor and have not intention of ever attempting to pick a pocket, they are in it for the many social skills that pickpockets get.  You really can't tell anything about the character just from knowing their guild.  Basing their starting gear on their background would be possible, but that would mean the application reviewer would have to read the backgrounds and set each persons starting gear manually, which would suck.

Just use your starting money to set appropriate gear on your character if the standard brown pants and black shoes don't do it for you.

Angela Christine
Treat the other man's faith gently; it is all he has to believe with."     Henry S. Haskins

Sephiroto

  • Posts: 2830
Heh
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2002, 12:56:47 AM »
Totally understood, but thats not exactly the point.

I mean, you already go through the long, drawn out application where you create a background for your characters and so forth.  What would be the big deal in you taking another five or ten picking out around a thousand sids worth of gear.  A list of recomended pieces should be shown for along with the required, torso and lowerbody clothing.  Any amount of the determined amount of sid for that char goes into that person's inventory if you have a crafter or a person who wants the usual brown and brown.

This could possibly save time and worry of running around the bazarr, sinc it is not always adequately stocked, and I als think it would also help the newbies along so we dont have to immediately show them where to get that shiny new obsidian longsword, dark, hooded longcloak, or leather swordbelt.

Rindan

  • Posts: 2825
Starting equipment.
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2002, 01:43:09 AM »
It also seems illogical that a new character would have 1000 'sid sitting around to spend.  Most commoners don't have that kind of money.  You have a pile of 'sid sitting there just waiting for you.  I, and many other people, don't really RP that first hour or so in the game.  In fact, I go out of my way to avoid people.  I take my money, march to the market, and buy what I think my character would have.  That might include buying the sword that he has had in the family for generations, or armor that he has been wearing for years.  Sure, techinically I just bought it, but I just don't consider that event to have ever have happened.

I prefer this way far more to being given less money and gear that your character might have for his class.  First, if each class got a certain set of starting gear, your class would be blatently given away unless you ditched the newbie gear fast.  Second, just because you are of a certain class does not mean that you intend to play that class like the way it was meant to be played.  Rangers don't have to be hunters.  A ranger can be a fine spy or merchant.  A pick pocket can be an excellent servant or aid.  And magikers, well, I would cry if my northern Krathi or Drovian started with clothing that proudly declared his class.

Halaster

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  • Posts: 2207
Starting equipment.
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2002, 09:50:19 AM »
Personally, I like it the way it is.  While I see a very good point in being able to pick some basic gear to start with, instead of the heap of cash, I think the way it is allows for much more flexibility.

If we coded something that allowed you to start with some basic weapons, armor, whatever, then keeping that updated as NEW objects are created would be tedious at best.  As it is, since you have a good bit of starting coins, you can go pick which sword your warrior starts with (or axe, or club, or something else if you don't want to go with a sword).  And as new objects with cool descriptions are made, you can go buy those too (assuming they're put in the shops for public consumption).

So, while I think this idea has some merit, I think it would wind up limiting people who don't WANT the basic armor or weapon or whatever.  I suppose there could be a choice in creation.  A Yes/No question that asks if you want to pick basic gear to start with relevant to your guild, but to be honest, I would personally rather see the coders spend their time on other things that have more value to the game.

Normal Disclaimer:  These are my opinions and do not necessarily reflect those of the rest of the staff, nor does this consitute any sort of game policy.
Halaster


The Lonely Hunter

  • Posts: 883
Hrm
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2002, 10:44:29 AM »
Maybe we can add a NPC to the place of kings that sells basic gear and weapons for decent prices? That way we can all be happy! :passes around the xanex:
"People survive by climbing over anyone who gets in their way, by cheating, stealing, killing, swindling, or otherwise taking advantage of others."
-Ginka

"Don't do this. I can't believe I have to write this post."
-Rathustra

Freman Scum

  • Posts: 42
The problem.
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2002, 12:25:45 PM »
The problem with one NPC merchant in the hall of kings (buying gear before you go in game is a wondeful idea, don't get me wrong) is that different places and races have different equipment.

Sure your northerner will have a wood bow and a wooden sheild at good prices.

Sure your desert elf will get nice ranger gear.

Sure your Nakki will have a wealth of obsidan weapons cheap.

But should all characters have access to all items at good prices.

No.
For I have loved the stars too fondly to fear the night.~

  • Guest
Idea
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2002, 12:59:22 PM »
I've an idea, perhaps each character could start with two or three 'points'
or whatever they want to be called. There could be a merchant at the starting location selling gear that your character would have. Like he could have a chisel, a belt... bone sword, sturdy set of boots, cheap bow or quiver etc...  The sort of thing you should readily have. Sometimes your starting cash isn't quite enough to get all you want, or have set your background as. This can also speed up getting into the game, as your new stonecrafter doesn't have to search for a store to get a chisel, or your rinther can get his cheap cloak without having to kill someone for it.

Just a suggestion

  • Guest
Idea
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2002, 01:02:48 PM »
I've an idea, perhaps each character could start with two or three 'points'
or whatever they want to be called. There could be a merchant at the starting location selling gear that your character would have. Like he could have a chisel, a belt... bone sword, sturdy set of boots, cheap bow or quiver etc...  The sort of thing you should readily have. Sometimes your starting cash isn't quite enough to get all you want, or have set your background as. This can also speed up getting into the game, as your new stonecrafter doesn't have to search for a store to get a chisel, or your rinther can get his cheap cloak without having to kill someone for it.

Just a suggestion

  • Guest
Starting equipment.
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2002, 01:03:52 PM »
Uhh, don't know what happened there, maybe I clicked twice... oh well.

lukie

  • Posts: 430
AHH!
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2002, 03:23:42 PM »
He's upping his post count! Get him!  :twisted:

lukie leads the charge of angry penguins with sticks.
I've been away from Zalanthas for some time, but I still think you all are kank shit. Don't worry, I'll come back and fix it up. By the way, has anyone found, like, water? This desert is getting old.

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Starting equipment.
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2002, 03:25:37 PM »
lol, I think I just spaced and clicked it again a few minutes later.

Sanvean

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What about...
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2002, 04:35:26 PM »
We could have a whole bunch of shops pretty close and they could get some money and go pick out their equipment according to what the local shops sell?

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Starting equipment.
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2002, 04:38:25 PM »
In the hall of kings you mean?

creeper386

  • Posts: 2583
Starting equipment.
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2002, 05:39:43 PM »
Sanvean... I think the idea you have is already in place!

Hehe... I haven't been many places but even the north has a collection of stores... Same with Allanak... And I'm sure the other places too...



Creeper

Desert elves are the super heros of the game... Now the question is where are all the dessert elves....
21sters Unite!

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Starting equipment.
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2002, 05:44:50 PM »
They all met up with kryptonite  :wink:

So only the supervillain is left, he's recruiting though, if you want to talk to him. hehe

Sephiroto

  • Posts: 2830
Problems with newbies.
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2002, 05:56:04 PM »
See problem I see with the way the inital equipping goes now.  Newbies do not necessarily know what type of weapon each one is.  They also, and most likely, do not know if a piece will fit or how heavy for that manner.  This "shop" in the hall of kings, or any other inital equipping session, could rebuy the items bought for the exact amount coins to help insure that each character can adequately equipthemselves.  Even though later in the game purchaces are made, and items are rebought for half or less...the character should, according to some logic, already have obtained their equipment.

Lazloth

  • Posts: 1783
Starting equipment.
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2002, 08:38:34 PM »
Why fix it if it ain't broke?
quote="CRW"]i very nearly crapped my pants today very far from my house in someone else's vehicle, what a day[/quote]

Starting equipment.
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2002, 08:45:24 PM »
A shop in the Hall of Kings... Ok, fine, understandable. But certainly not a 'uniform' based on starting guild... That would be letting other people in on OOC information. If you're walking around in the classic newbie pick-pocket attire, everyone will watch their purses as you come by. If you're dressed like a magicker, but have only been playing so long and have to find a gem (Or plan to not wear one), then suddenly those templars will take a keen interest in you, instead of the few dozen VNPCs zipping by them all the time.

One lesson I learned as quickly and as painfully as possible was that you shouldn't come to identify yourself by your guild... Not at all.

You ask Bob the Ultra-Newb in sirihish:
"So Bob, what is it you do for a living, eh?"

Bob the Ultra-Newb opens a bone-studded backpack.

Bob the Ultra-Newb gets a ratty, dingy black cloak from a bone-studded backpack.

Bob the Ultra-Newb gets some dark sandcloth gloves from a bone-studded backpack.

Bob the Ultra-Newb gets a black mask from a bone-studded backpack.

Bob the Ultra-Newb holds up his gear, grinning.

Bob the Ultra Newb says to you, in sirish:
"I'm a Burgalar, d00d."

See what I mean? Probably not... It was just fun writing a fake log.

As for a shop in the Hall of Kings... Hmm, maybe yes, maybe no. I think the scar-man and picking your starting town and such is a lot for a new player to think about... Best not to overwhelm them with a shop, as well, or else we might end up with a congragation of confused newbs huddling together in the Hall of Kings.
EvilRoeSlade wrote:
Quote
You find a bulbous root sac and pick it up.
You shout, in sirihish:
"I HAVE A BULBOUS SAC"
Quote
A staff member sends:
     "You are likely dead."

John

  • Posts: 4240
Re: What about...
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2002, 08:59:09 PM »
Quote from: "Sanvean"
We could have a whole bunch of shops pretty close and they could get some money and go pick out their equipment according to what the local shops sell?
I -think- I understand what you mean, so I'll just expand on what I think your saying. If there was a shop(s) in the Hall of Kings, then I think what shops appear, should depend on your starting location. If you point to Tuluk, your taken to the "tuluk" room within the hall of kinds with the shop(s) and you can buy stuff that the main shops in tuluk sell. This would mean that Allanakies aren't walking around with all of this wooden gear, and Tulukies aren't walking around with Allanak only materials.

I also had another idea for the Hall of Kings a while ago. Why not have a way to specify where you were born, and then have a way to specify your starting location. This way you don't have to put it in your objective and hassle an Imm. However I tend to agree with FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit about confusing newbies, and I feel having an accent map as well as a starting location map would confuse newbies, not too sure about a shop though.

However a way around confusing newbies with a shop in the Hall of Kings and avoid giving them the wrong impressions with how shops work, you could make the shop only appear after a newbie has had X hours playing time. Therefore, by X hours they -should- have had some dealings with the shop system so they won't be too confused by it.

Lazloth

  • Posts: 1783
Re: What about...
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2002, 09:28:06 PM »
Quote from: "John"
Why not have a way to specify where you were born, and then have a way to specify your starting location. This way you don't have to put it in your objective and hassle an Imm.


What purpose would this serve, outside of your accent?  If that's the case, why not just start where you were "born" and figure your way to where you'd like to appear.
quote="CRW"]i very nearly crapped my pants today very far from my house in someone else's vehicle, what a day[/quote]

creeper386

  • Posts: 2583
Starting equipment.
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2002, 10:29:06 PM »
Alittle off subject but sometimes you want to be from a certain area because of your character concept but you want to play in another area... And when you don't know your way around and part of your concept is ENDING UP in that area... Sometimes it's hard to explain why your a northerner but without the accent and such.
21sters Unite!

John

  • Posts: 4240
Re: What about...
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2002, 10:42:47 PM »
Quote from: "Lazloth"
What purpose would this serve, outside of your accent?  If that's the case, why not just start where you were "born" and figure your way to where you'd like to appear.
Exactly what Creeper said. As an example of another idea though, is that you grew up in the slums of the 'rinth. Some merchant kidnaps you at the age of 10, locks you up in his compound to be his "toy". You somehow manage to escape after 10 years and find yourself in the middle of Tuluk.

It'd just make things easier for the newbie. I read all the documentation and because of the accent warning realised I better start in Red Storm. Wandered around completely confused asking a couple of NPCs how to get to Allanak. I finally found a PC (although I actually have a sneaky suspicion it was an NPC an Imm inhabited cause I'm pretty sure it was a guard) and it told me how to get to Allanak. I somehow survived it without seeing a single animal (I reckon it was the same Imm again :D) and managed to find my way to Allanak without having to step and rest once, or get a drink or anything!!!

The point of that story, is had I been killed, I probably would of been scared off and not bothered with Armageddon, and we probably do lose some newbies from similar situations. But then again the change I proposed probably would just be more confusing.

Another idea would be modifying the app process to include a Hometown field. However I'm fairly certain in the past Sanvean said this would be very difficult (in the right/left hand Vs Primary/Secondary thread).

Cyrian

  • Guest
What about the poor imms
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2002, 01:38:56 AM »
The Imm's when there not running around congratulating each other on the death of all those innocent pc's :)  Actually do work on the mud, Why take up more of thier time to check prices (since where you start out at will determie the price of clothing) and make the additions when you can spend 5 minutes doing it yourself?

  • Guest
Starting equipment.
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2002, 08:30:05 AM »
Too much controversy, I change my mind... no store in hall of kings.
 -Although maybe a cheap tattoo guy will make sense so we don't have to search.

Anyway, stop talking, all of you!  :x

Plazgoth

  • Posts: 315
An idea along these lines
« Reply #25 on: October 23, 2002, 04:59:43 PM »
What about an middle ground between the Hall of Kings and your starting city with a few basic shops. Maybe even mirrored (is that possible?) so that wheneve the actual's shop inventory changes the mirrored shop will reflect the change.

So when you point at your starting location you get transfered to the "mirrored" bazzar and get some basic starting gear that you wish. Perhaps have it free like the scarrs. And once in game have only a couple of hundred sids if that.

Well that's all I had to say about that.

lukie

  • Posts: 430
Rush!
« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2002, 06:17:08 PM »
FREE EQUIPMENT! YAY! SPAM BUY SPAM BUY SPAM BUY.

I can see it now... the man with 20 pairs of pants and 20 pairs of shoes.

em shudders.
I've been away from Zalanthas for some time, but I still think you all are kank shit. Don't worry, I'll come back and fix it up. By the way, has anyone found, like, water? This desert is getting old.

  • Guest
Starting equipment.
« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2002, 06:21:04 PM »
Yeah, it would definitely have to cost you some side. Else, you get the colorful situation Lukie mentioned ;->

  • Guest
Starting equipment.
« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2002, 06:22:35 PM »
I did mention that each person could start with three points. -Maybe soapstone coins like that crazy whatsit guy? And each item would cost one funny coin. That way you could only get three things max. Enough to found yourself nicely.

  • Guest
Starting equipment.
« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2002, 06:25:54 PM »
But then you could still get someone buying three obsidian breastplates, selling two off once they get in game and using that money to buy the rest of their armor, and still have some left over.

I like the idea of buy at normal price, sell back at same price.