Author Topic: Inserting says into emotes?  (Read 445 times)

Thomoto

  • Posts: 185
Inserting says into emotes?
« on: September 27, 2020, 09:22:05 PM »
I've heard of many other games where the emote system gives the option to insert says and the code will put in accents and language. I feel that this would be good for arm to help increase the quality of immersive scenes.

Example in mind: em fidgets nervously, their eyes averted away from ~Templar. Their lips finally part to utter the words, ("No... I promise Lady Templar, it wasn't me."), their hands behind their back shakily.

What everyone else sees: Thomoto fidgets nervously, their eyes averted away from The Templar that will wreck ur shit. Their lips finally part to utter the words, in Southern-accented Sirihish: "No, I promise Lady Templar, it wasn't me.", their hands behind their back shakily.

(Apologies for the shit emote example)

What do you all think?
resting as a city elf walking in the wilderness because "I was so close" and then got jumped by things that could easily kill me and I didn't have the stamina to escape.

mirk_o_loio

  • Posts: 174
Re: Inserting says into emotes?
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2020, 09:27:21 PM »
Yes.
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mansa

  • Posts: 9940
Re: Inserting says into emotes?
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2020, 09:29:47 PM »
The standard template for communication in the game looks like this:

<sdesc> says, in Sirihish:
     "<communication>"



You can do a <pre> emote by using the parenthesis containing your emote -before- the communication text.
(pre emote), <sdesc> says in Sirihish:
     "<communication>"


eg - say (hands behind their back) Can you believe it?
Hands behind their back, the tall, muscular man asks, in Sirihish:
     "Can you believe it?"




Would it look like this?
(pre emote), <sdesc> says in Sirihish:
     "<communication>"
(post emote)


Or would it look like this?
(pre emote), <sdesc> says in Sirihish, (post emote):
     "<communication>"



Examples:
Hands behind their back, the tall, muscular man says, in Sirihish, spitting while talking:
     "Can you believe it?"

Hands behind their back, the tall, muscular man says, in Sirihish:
     "Can you believe it?"
spitting while talking.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2020, 09:33:48 PM by mansa »
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Thomoto

  • Posts: 185
Re: Inserting says into emotes?
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2020, 09:33:05 PM »

Would it look like this?
(pre emote), <sdesc> says in Sirihish:
     "<communication>"
(post emote)



I think something like that format would be neat.


(I fucked the post but alright)
resting as a city elf walking in the wilderness because "I was so close" and then got jumped by things that could easily kill me and I didn't have the stamina to escape.

mansa

  • Posts: 9940
Re: Inserting says into emotes?
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2020, 09:35:34 PM »
The major problem I have is that screen reader software might interpret it incorrectly, so our players with special needs may get super-duper confused.



And, because I've been playing for 20 years, I think it looks super jarring, but my reasons are a lack of inertia for syntax complications.
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Thomoto

  • Posts: 185
Re: Inserting says into emotes?
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2020, 09:38:39 PM »
The major problem I have is that screen reader software might interpret it incorrectly, so our players with special needs may get super-duper confused.



And, because I've been playing for 20 years, I think it looks super jarring.

In which case then I take that back and say that:

(Pre-emote) say blah blah blah (post emote)
resting as a city elf walking in the wilderness because "I was so close" and then got jumped by things that could easily kill me and I didn't have the stamina to escape.

TheBardicCircle

  • Posts: 24
Re: Inserting says into emotes?
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2020, 09:51:05 PM »
Seeing that, it's a little overwhelming for me. I barely have enough time as it is sometimes writing just 'emote stands up'.

Jihelu

  • Posts: 2846
Re: Inserting says into emotes?
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2020, 10:30:19 PM »
I like it.

Lizzie

  • Posts: 8319
Re: Inserting says into emotes?
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2020, 08:38:49 AM »
I've seen this in some other games, mostly mushes. I'm not in favor of the style, mostly because of how it ends up being used. Here's a made-up example of what I mean:


The woman wends her way through the crowd toward a blackwood table and three patrons seated at it. "So I told the Lord Bubbie he could have my bracelet for only thirty sids." The green-haired woman then takes a seat at the table.

Now - where exactly would the "in northern-accented Sirihish" be placed, in this sentence?

Also, who is the green-haired woman talking to?

Lastly, if the woman is one person, and the green-eyed person is another person (like, if the two women came together and one PC is including the second in the emote), how do we know which one is speaking?

There is already "tell" - which is often used to replace "talk" mostly for new folks who are still learning all the cool options for communication commands in Arm. Unless they nest an emote in with their tell, it is already awkward, and sometimes difficult to figure out who the person is talking to. Adding another option for people to make it hard to determine who they're talking to - I think just adds to the risk of awkwardness, and doesn't bring enough benefit to counter it.
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triste

  • Posts: 554
Re: Inserting says into emotes?
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2020, 08:58:34 AM »
Now - where exactly would the "in northern-accented Sirihish" be placed, in this sentence?

The way I have seen this handled elsewhere is automatically embedding the accent in the dialog, such as `The burly man shouts, "* In southern sirihish * Krath Damn," which is not... how it is handled in literature. Another reason this is a distracting feature.

I liked the idea when Nao or someone else first raised it and support it on the level of "Yes, this is a thing we can do with code, it is not impossible to implement." But people are overlooking the huge issue of listening code here as well, which ArmageddonMUD has implemented better than other muds. With an emote system like this people would necessarily mix in the existing tell and shout commands. That further leads to grammatical/formatting inconsistencies which are distracting. It is cleaner for the flow of roleplay and cleaner in terms of listen code to stick with current communication code.
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Kyviantre

  • Posts: 631
Re: Inserting says into emotes?
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2020, 09:18:00 AM »
I miss being able to do saymotes (premotes just don't always fit nicely with the flow).  But I agree that Armageddon isn't really geared up for it.  Plus the character length in emotes/speech is already so PAINFULLY restrictively short on this game (I hates it so much!), I don't think it'd be terribly useful, even if we could crush accents/languages in as well.
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Lotion

  • Posts: 116
Re: Inserting says into emotes?
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2020, 04:48:48 AM »
I would prefer a solution that allows us to put says into other commands that allow command emoting such as give, stand, or sit
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Eluin

  • Posts: 94
Re: Inserting says into emotes?
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2020, 05:25:40 AM »
Yeah, nice as this might be to have, adding says into emotes just makes the character limit all the more painful, in my opinion.

LindseyBalboa

  • Posts: 176
Re: Inserting says into emotes?
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2020, 02:36:02 AM »
I was all for it until line length was brought up. I already go over that with every other pose - I mean, emote.

Lizzie

  • Posts: 8319
Re: Inserting says into emotes?
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2020, 09:20:07 AM »
There's also the issue of Armageddon's listen and scan skills.

If you're emoting, and someone in the next room is watching you, they could see your emotes. But if they don't have the listen skill on, they won't overhear what you're saying.

Conversely - if they have the listen skill on, there's a chance they can hear what you're saying, but won't see your emotes.

There's really no way to reconcile this with a voice-nested emote. With an emote-nested say, it already works fine - I can hear you talk from the other room, but I can't make out what you're doing.

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Alesan

  • Posts: 392
Re: Inserting says into emotes?
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2020, 09:44:06 AM »
There's also the issue of Armageddon's listen and scan skills.

If you're emoting, and someone in the next room is watching you, they could see your emotes. But if they don't have the listen skill on, they won't overhear what you're saying.

Conversely - if they have the listen skill on, there's a chance they can hear what you're saying, but won't see your emotes.

There's really no way to reconcile this with a voice-nested emote. With an emote-nested say, it already works fine - I can hear you talk from the other room, but I can't make out what you're doing.



If this concept were possible and feasible to do in the first place, making it listen-able would be part of that, so would watching. That's already how table code works in conjunction with language code. Can you even see speak-motes from another room while watching someone?
All in all, I really see this much like just a reformatted command emote for say/talk. You could actually put things after the speech instead of it all being prefixed. It's the same exact thing.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 09:46:59 AM by Alesan »

creeper386

  • Posts: 2584
Re: Inserting says into emotes?
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2020, 03:51:13 PM »
My opinion is either of those formats that mansa mentioned would be very hard to keep track of.

Even with having clear cut formatting sometimes things are hard to follow. Mixing up that formatting would make things even harder to follow imo.
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Hauwke

  • Posts: 2214
Re: Inserting says into emotes?
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2020, 04:03:55 PM »
There's also the issue of Armageddon's listen and scan skills.

If you're emoting, and someone in the next room is watching you, they could see your emotes. But if they don't have the listen skill on, they won't overhear what you're saying.

Conversely - if they have the listen skill on, there's a chance they can hear what you're saying, but won't see your emotes.

There's really no way to reconcile this with a voice-nested emote. With an emote-nested say, it already works fine - I can hear you talk from the other room, but I can't make out what you're doing.

You can see canned socials in other rooms, interestingly. But not emotes, which bothers me too.

CodeMaster

  • Posts: 1140
Re: Inserting says into emotes?
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2020, 09:38:38 PM »
> You can see canned socials in other rooms, interestingly. But not emotes, which bothers me too.

It'd be neat if certain canned socials could be seen from other rooms (like "wave") while others could not (like "sigh").
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