Make Sorcerers Great Again (And Elementalists)

[Inks]

No ranger. Ranger bad.

To be honest the magick subs are spook enough and don't need any more power.

[wizturbo]

Ranger doesn't seem bad compared to the absolute abomination that is the miscreant.  I haven't really played much since the new classes came out but just reading that skill list is enough for me to know it's the most broken class in the game.  All the advantages of pickpocket, burglar, and most of assassin all in one package for zero karma?  And the old ranger is the problem?  Lol.  I guess we replaced drovian spies with undetectable ninjas instead.

[Fredd]

Ranger doesn't seem bad compared to the absolute abomination that is the miscreant.  I haven't really played much since the new classes came out but just reading that skill list is enough for me to know it's the most broken class in the game.  All the advantages of pickpocket, burglar, and most of assassin all in one package for zero karma?  And the old ranger is the problem?  Lol.  I guess we replaced drovian spies with undetectable ninjas instead.

Nah, Drovian Ninja's.
But Miscreant is stupidly strong. Old burglar and pickpocket had J.man weapon skills. Burglar was limited to Advanced steal, and Pickpocket didn't have hide.

Miscreant gets it ALL, and then Advanced weapon skills? Congrats, you made Urban Rangers.

[KittenLicks]

and Pickpocket didn't have hide.

Did pickpockets actually not have hide? How did that even work?

On topic: Yes, Miscreants are very strong.

[Fredd]

and Pickpocket didn't have hide.

Did pickpockets actually not have hide? How did that even work?

On topic: Yes, Miscreants are very strong.

It worked by having Master Steal and Master Sleight of Hand. They could go through your pack while bullshitting with you at the bar.

Edit: I was wrong, they branched hide. I went back and double-checked some old stuff I had.

However The main thing that balanced Pickpocket and Burglar was that if you found them stealing from you, you could kick their asses. Now they got advanced weapon skills. You better be a real badass.

[wizturbo]

Pickpocket also couldn't hide as well as burglars could if I recall.  Basically took the max capabilities of burglar, pickpocket and most of assassin and tossed them into one class to create the super city class that far exceeded what rangers could be in the wilds.  I think I'd rather have the super wilds class, because at least those PCs need to contend with more threats to train.

[Fredd]

Pickpocket also couldn't hide as well as burglars could if I recall.  Basically took the max capabilities of burglar, pickpocket and most of assassin and tossed them into one class to create the super city class that far exceeded what rangers could be in the wilds.  I think I'd rather have the super wilds class, because at least those PCs need to contend with more threats to train.

that is correct, Pickpocket only had Advanced hide, where Burglar had Master

[worldofsand]

No, pickpockets got master hide.